Gibbs II vs. Spurrier vs. Norv....

[skins fan1010]

lol at huge edge. please take off the homer glasses. the one season we eeked into the playoffs and showed the worst offensive game ever in a win is hardly a huge edge. the guy is a crappy coach, plain and simple.

Take off your Cowboy-Blue glasses. I gave Turner a playoff appearance, but the truth is I was being generous because the appearance didn't come until his SIXTH season. When you call Gibbs a crappy coach you lose ALL credibility, son.

And, shouldn't you be in school?

[redskins0756]

BS the bambino curse was broken so can the JCK

[33]

its a fair point to be sure, but to paraphrase, you can't win the race if you don't even run...

well, the teams we consistently field (including now) aren't even worthy of being entered into the race.....

as i said a couple of weeks ago on a thread....4 years into Gibbs II, did you want to listen to the Coach talking about how New England and Dallas were the "class of the league" and how we would have to play the "game of our lives" to win......or did you expect to be THAT benchmark everyone compared to?

if we do not go 2-2 over the next 4 games we will end Gibbs' first 4 years with a worse record than the 4 years preceeding him (albeit with one playoff appearance)...it IS NOT getting better....

I can only disagree in the sense that the talent has gotten much better.

Clearly we don't have enough talent to overcome injuries of which we have been dealt our fair share this year. I counted at least 9 starters I think that have missed at least a start.

I would say that we have also been a player or two away at times, and maybe that can be attributed to spending on the wrong people at times.

I would also say that having in essence a rookie Qb this year, the team has already exceeded my expectations with their competitiveness.

When Gibbs took over this team the talent was actually laughable.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Take off your Cowboy-Blue glasses. I gave Turner a playoff appearance, but the truth is I was being generous because the appearance didn't come until his SIXTH season. When you call Gibbs a crappy coach you lose ALL credibility, son.

And, shouldn't you be in school?

thanks dad, but i graduated from college already.

and gibbs is currently a crappy coach. im glad you still think its 1987, but i live in 2007.

[trio]

Take off your Cowboy-Blue glasses. I gave Turner a playoff appearance, but the truth is I was being generous because the appearance didn't come until his SIXTH season. When you call Gibbs a crappy coach you lose ALL credibility, son.

And, shouldn't you be in school?

turner went 9-7 in his third year, and the gus frerotte head butt incident kept us out of the playoffs his 4th year at 8-7-1....

so you aren't being THAT generous....

dave wannstedt went 10-6 with the dolphins like 3 years in a row and DID NOT make the playoffs....

so is a coach that goes 8-8 and makes the playoffs doing a better job than a coach that goes 10-6 and does not? my point is simply using that one factor as your determiner for success is invalid, because getting into the playoffs every year is a factor of 1) your success and 2) the success of the rest of the league....when turner went 9-7, 9-7 teams weren't making the playoffs...this year it most certainly will....

that is why you have to look at overall records as well...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I can only disagree in the sense that the talent has gotten much better.

Clearly we don't have enough talent to overcome injuries of which we have been dealt our fair share this year. I counted at least 9 starters I think that have missed at least a start.

I would say that we have also been a player or two away at times, and maybe that can be attributed to spending on the wrong people at times.

I would also say that having in essence a rookie Qb this year, the team has already exceeded my expectations with their competitiveness.

When Gibbs took over this team the talent was actually laughable.

so gibbs took over a team that "the talent was actually laughable", added a few big name free agents and 1st round draft picks, and the win/loss column just stayed the same. thats whats so ridiculous when people defend him, the fact that we did in fact add more talent and gibbs still cant win with them is the truly sad part.

[909997]

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Do you suffer from memory loss? With Gibbs, sure we lose, but we look like we're playing hard and competetive. With those guys we went out and just got smashed. Turner made the playoffs the same amount of times as Gibbs has. He had Ray Rhodes and Mike Nolan, so his d-coordinators weren't exactly slouches. Plus, he only has two more wins then us and is coaching a much more talanted team them ours. Spurrior had Marvin Lewis, the builder of perhaps the finest defense ever seen in NFL history, and won 7 games.

dude we are 5-7 gibbs sucks get over it

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

turner went 9-7 in his third year, and the gus frerotte head butt incident kept us out of the playoffs his 4th year at 8-7-1....

so you aren't being THAT generous....

dave wannstedt went 10-6 with the dolphins like 3 years in a row and DID NOT make the playoffs....

so is a coach that goes 8-8 and makes the playoffs doing a better job than a coach that goes 10-6 and does not? my point is simply using that one factor as your determiner for success is invalid, because getting into the playoffs every year is a factor of 1) your success and 2) the success of the rest of the league....when turner went 9-7, 9-7 teams weren't making the playoffs...this year it most certainly will....

that is why you have to look at overall records as well...

hes just cherry picking numbers to support that gibbs is doing a better job than the other coaches weve had, when if you look at the win/loss column, he blatantly is not. but he like many others is most likely still living in the glory years.

[Major Harris]

turner was better then gibbs, he knew how to run a offense.

if turner or spurrior had greg williams they would win 8+ games

i MIGHT give you turner here. he can run an offense, though his teams had to be the least motivated teams ever.

spurrier...you're crazy. g. williams d doesn't score points. it took the nfl about 8 weeks to figure out that you could just pummel spurriers o because he had no idea how to adjust. he was pathetic.

[33]

so is a coach that goes 8-8 and makes the playoffs doing a better job than a coach that goes 10-6 and does not? my point is simply using that one factor as your determiner for success is invalid, because getting into the playoffs every year is a factor of 1) your success and 2) the success of the rest of the league....when turner went 9-7, 9-7 teams weren't making the playoffs...this year it most certainly will....

that is why you have to look at overall records as well...

Please consider the manner in which Turner went 9-7. Very similar the Lions this year. We jumped out to 6-1 and then promptly went 3 and 6 the rest of the way.

THAT was an embarrassing season for Redskins fans.

[skins fan1010]

so is a coach that goes 8-8 and makes the playoffs doing a better job than a coach that goes 10-6 and does not?

Yes. You cannot win a championship without first getting into the playoffs.

Some coaches do a better job of getting their teams in the dance no matter what it takes. Gibbs is one of those coaches. If he didn't lose Taylor in the Philly game, we'd be talking about two playoff appearances in four years. I'm still not convinced that he will not find a way to do it anyway, but it's certainly going to be much tougher without his best defensive player.

[Veretax]

its not even that we need a GM, we just need a change in philosophy in how we aquire players. gibbs or a GM, the fact that we decide to ignore the draft is why we fail, and the fact that gibbs loves throwing money at FAs is why we fail.

whats most ironic about this, weve hit on all of our first round picks

taylor was elite

rogers was finally showing he was very good

landry looks great

campbell is going to be at least a very solid NFL QB

cooley was a 3rd rounder and was great

dockery was a 3rd rounder (even though spurrier drafted him, he was still good)

rocky was a 2nd and hes very good

problem is, we just never use the draft. imagine if we actually used the draft, and we could triple the amount of talent weve aquired from it? but instead we waste picks elsewhere. i just wish it would stop, and until i see us picking in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds, i wont be happy about it.

Oh I agree with you there. Picks should only ever be used to bring in proven talent that we need to fill a slot and if we do that player has got to fit. Our problem is wasted picks on guys like Duckett, Arch, Lloyd :/

[skins fan1010]

hes just cherry picking numbers to support that gibbs is doing a better job than the other coaches weve had, when if you look at the win/loss column, he blatantly is not. but he like many others is most likely still living in the glory years.

Sorry, son, but you're wrong again. I didn't cherry pick. I compared records at similar points in time for all coaches.

Isn't it time for you to post something about your favorite team at the Cowboys fan board?

[turbodiesel#44]

there is a simple reason for this... we are cursed by the ghost of Jack Kent Cooke ever since we named the stadium after him then switched it to FedEx for money.

I think Cooke cursed himself by not leaving the team in his family. The FedEx thing was more of a hex.

[33]

I think Cooke cursed himself by not leaving the team in his family. The FedEx thing was more of a hex.

JKC did an honorable thing.

His will stipulated that his assets were to be sold off in order to form a trust in the name of a charity.

John Cooke received 20% of his estate, I believe.

There was no way for JKC to know that the value of the team would reach $800 million, therefore making it impossible for John to be a real threat in the bidding.

Let's take an honorable thing and turn it into a curse, even in jest.

Also, there is no question JKC would have sold the naming rights. The guy paid for the entire thing out of his pocket.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Sorry, son, but you're wrong again. I didn't cherry pick. I compared records at similar points in time for all coaches.

Isn't it time for you to post something about your favorite team at the Cowboys fan board?

yup, you caught me. im a cowboys fan in disguise. man youre good! :doh:

sad that a 46 year old is reverting to "hes a cowboys fan" insults just because i think our coach is doing a piss poor job.

[SkinsMaster88]

Now, I don't want to do any analysis of the situation, but to me, at least Gibbs' teams have always been competitive. Most of the games have been close, wins and losses, but we've stayed in the thick of things. It always seems to come down to a few plays here or there. The problem is we seem to find more ways to lose, than ways to win. I still hope the team can turn it around, and am willing to give Gibbs the length of his contract to see how the team does.

Most times you end up with a new coach, there's growing pains as players need to fit the system. New players all the time ---> affects chemistry. We had almost yearly turnaround of players/coaches before Gibbs. The consistency at least has led most of us to more optimistic predictions on how strong this team can be. They can turn it around and still succeed in Gibbs II.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

some of you have become so content with losing its scary.

[turbodiesel#44]

its not even that we need a GM, we just need a change in philosophy in how we aquire players. gibbs or a GM, the fact that we decide to ignore the draft is why we fail, and the fact that gibbs loves throwing money at FAs is why we fail.

whats most ironic about this, weve hit on all of our first round picks

taylor was elite

rogers was finally showing he was very good

landry looks great

campbell is going to be at least a very solid NFL QB

cooley was a 3rd rounder and was great

dockery was a 3rd rounder (even though spurrier drafted him, he was still good)

rocky was a 2nd and hes very good

problem is, we just never use the draft. imagine if we actually used the draft, and we could triple the amount of talent weve aquired from it? but instead we waste picks elsewhere. i just wish it would stop, and until i see us picking in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds, i wont be happy about it.

Totally agree.

very true, and don't forget about Golston and Montgomery being found in the late rounds of the draft.

Gibbs II is kinda like the opposite of Marty when he was here.

Marty good coach, bad gm

Gibbs II good gm, bad coach.

Don't forget Heyer. But why would you think JG is a good GM? He is horrible. Bad GM decisions far outweigh good ones. Tale is in the tape.

[seanyt]

Try comparing apples to apples:

Gibbs II is 26 - 34 in 60 games with one playoff in three years

Turner was 24 - 35 - 1 in 60 games with one playoff in seven years

Huge Edge Gibbs II

Spurrier was 12 - 20 in his two years and ZERO playoffs

Gibbs II was 16 - 16 in his first two years with a playoff appearance, a playoff win on the road and one dropped INT from the NFC championship game

Huge Edge Gibbs II

I'm jus sayin'

Your right for the most part

Gibbs II has 26 wins to date with 4 games remaining

Turner had 26 wins in 4 FULL seasons

So Technically Joe has 4 more Games to better Norv in 4 seasons, Gibbs just like Norv took over a team that was missing pieces and partly in shambles...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Your right for the most part

Gibbs II has 26 wins to date with 4 games remaining

Turner had 26 wins in 4 FULL seasons

So Technically Joe has 4 more Games to better Norv in 4 seasons, Gibbs just like Norv took over a team that was missing pieces and partly in shambles...

wow, so we can agree that even though gibbs still sucks, he just sucks a little less than norv and spurrier? are we now content with levels of sucking?

[bobzmuda]

So Technically Joe has 4 more Games to better Norv in 4 seasons, Gibbs just like Norv took over a team that was missing pieces and partly in shambles...

Gibbs has often referred to the "promised land" in his talks. I'm beginning to think he is the Redskins' Moses. He helped get the franchise out of the mess it was in and will lead them to the gates of the promised land, but he won't be the one that takes them into the promised land itself. I appreciate how much better off the franchise is now than it was in 2003, but I think Gibbs' has plateaued as far as coaching this team goes.

[seanyt]

Gibbs has often referred to the "promised land" in his talks. I'm beginning to think he is the Redskins' Moses. He helped get the franchise out of the mess it was in and will lead them to the gates of the promised land, but he won't be the one that takes them into the promised land itself. I appreciate how much better off the franchise is now than it was in 2003, but I think Gibbs' has plateaued as far as coaching this team goes.

Well said man.

wow, so we can agree that even though gibbs still sucks, he just sucks a little less than norv and spurrier? are we now content with levels of sucking?

:laugh: Just waiting for the letter of resignation.

[turbodiesel#44]

Gibbs has often referred to the "promised land" in his talks. I'm beginning to think he is the Redskins' Moses. He helped get the franchise out of the mess it was in and will lead them to the gates of the promised land, but he won't be the one that takes them into the promised land itself. I appreciate how much better off the franchise is now than it was in 2003, but I think Gibbs' has plateaued as far as coaching this team goes.

With the age and condition of both our lines, I hardly see how we have been set up for the future. There is no religious implication in the NFL. God does not care about football, if he exists. And if he did, why would he choose the Skins over the Saints?

[hail2skins]

Some coaches do a better job of getting their teams in the dance no matter what it takes. Gibbs is one of those coaches. If he didn't lose Taylor in the Philly game, we'd be talking about two playoff appearances in four years. I'm still not convinced that he will not find a way to do it anyway, but it's certainly going to be much tougher without his best defensive player.

And IF Michael Westbrook didn't get hurt in the second game of the 2000 season, and IF Stephen Davis didn't get hurt during the Rams game that year, and IF Brett Conway had been healthy, Norv would've gotten us deep in the playoffs that year as well.