"Just a Thug" (long)

[GamaGoliath]

I have to apologize if this isn’t posted in the correct forum, but seeing that it relates to Sean Taylor I couldn’t think of anywhere else to put this. I’m sorry for the social commentary, but I think that more and more of us can begin to see the mindset of certain people and how it sometimes feels as a Black man in this country. I know…I know. I’m not trying to make this into a Black/White thing, but this event may help others to understand where we’re coming from.

As fans of Sean Taylor, we have had to endure hearing the negative stories about the man, and misinformation passed on by others on websites, newspaper articles, blogs and sports broadcasting stations. We have had to listen to people refer to Taylor as “just a thug.” All the while we’re scratching our heads, thinking “wtf?” Sure, ST had some unfortunate incidents, but to the point of labeling him a thug?

Lets address his “transgressions”. The major incident being his decision to confront some thieves. The mature man would have let it go, and/or called the authorities if he had information about the theft of his property. Unfortunately, Taylor didn’t have the maturity or wisdom to deal with the situation properly. It was definitely a knucklehead move. But if I were young and had access to a firearm, I might have done the same thing. I’ve had my car broken into on SEVERAL occasions, and I’m telling you that if I had a gun and knew who did it, I more than likely would have done something just as stupid. Would that have made me a “thug?” No, but it would have been a impulsive and stupid thing to do. Never the less, Sean answered for it and put it behind him.

What about the traffic stop? Well, there isn’t much to this story other than he refused to take a breathalyzer test, which is grounds for arrest. However, the case was thrown out. Again, not the smartest thing to do, but if it there was really something behind it, it would not have been thrown out of court.

So we’ve looked at his off the field problems, that I know of, and we can talk about the on the field actions. In keeping this short, with the late hits, let’s just call this youthful exuberance. Sean was an aggressive safety who wanted to make the big hit. What is wrong with that? That’s part of the reason that we loved Sean Taylor. Because he went all out. He played his ass off, and for better or worse, you know that he gave his best effort. That’s something that most fans of the sport can appreciate. You never could question his effort. This has nothing to do with being a “thug.” And even with all of that being said, Taylor cut all of late hit penalties down. The negative things that we saw from him earlier in his career were not apparent a couple of years later.

I think that the on field incident that stands out for most people is the whole spitting at Michael Pittman episode. It was a vile and childish thing to do, and Sean knew that he messed up after it happened. But it should have ended there. It happened, he was ejected and fined. And it never happened again. But does that incident make him a thug? Let’s just call it what it was. Immature and childish. It wasn’t thuggery. And I’m not trying to excuse the behavior by bringing someone else’s inappropriate actions, but other players have done it too, but they don’t receive the thug label. Look at Bill Romanowski. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Romanowski With all the things that he’s done, I have yet to hear anyone refer to him as a thug. You hear about how he’s an emotional, passionate player. But you won’t hear any of Sean’s critics call Romanowski a thug. Is Stephen Alexander a thug for punching an opponent in the nuts?

The difference here is race. You very well may have people believe that his actions were “thuggish”, but I feel that the majority of people who throw the term around have different agendas. I’m sorry to say this, but “thug” is now being used as a replacement for the n-word. They feel free to use it because superficially, they aren’t using any racial slurs. The only time you may hear the term being thrown around is when there is a person of color being described. Not everyone is guilty of this, but you can read between the lines when you hear it. They will call him a thug, and then follow it up by talking about the hair style one wears, or the clothes that they wear, or the music that they listen to. Or they may even follow it up with this little gem: “you can take the ______ out of the hood/ghetto, but you can’t take the hood/ghetto out of the _____.” We’ve all heard it and it upsets us because it isn’t true. At best, comments like this are irresponsible, at worst, they are racist.

The thing that makes Sean different to us is that we knew him on some level, and we came to care about this individual. Hell, I saw Sean Taylor more often than I did some of my real life friends. We could see Sean becoming a quiet professional. Outside of his exploits on the field, he didn’t want the spot light. We could see him maturing before our very eyes. Those of us who were fortunate enough to meet him in person can attest to the type of person he was. He sure wasn’t the person that they expected to meet. He came off as a warm, caring, compassionate individual. And because of that, we could never let those negatives define him for us. It appears that he was distancing himself from troublesome elements in his life. He was taking care of his child and his fiancé. By the standards of his peers in the NFL, he lived in a modest home. He wasn’t hanging around clubs. He didn’t have a huge entourage. And he wasn’t out there flaunting his possessions. He was living his life in a positive manner. Anyone that knew him could tell you that he was getting his life in order. He was maturing into what I think would have been an honorable man. As a Black man, I have come to realize that for all the good that I do or have done in this world, certain people won’t see anything more than a thug or a you know what. Those negative events are what they use to define Taylor. He could have led the most exemplary life, and it wouldn’t have even matter to a lot of people. They still would have judged him based on those few incidents. They can’t move past those events, and that’s all that they will ever see. No amount of reasoning or evidence will help them to see otherwise.

No. Sean Taylor wasn’t a thug. The death of a thug wouldn’t illicit the kind of reaction that many of us have had. Thugs don’t take care of their children. Thugs don’t take care of the mothers of their children. Thugs aren’t in bed at 8:30 in the evening. If Sean was a thug, he would have defied the law and kept a firearm in his home. Thugs don’t separate themselves from other thugs in an effort to better their lives. And this is part of the reason that I’m so upset with Wilbon. Saying that Taylor ran with a certain crowd and embraced some kind of violent lifestyle was too much for me, as I refuse to listen to, read or watch anything else that he has to say. Dismissing the maturing of Sean Taylor to the Redskins PR machine? Is Antonio Pierce part of that machine? What about Jeremy Shockey? Renaldo Wynn? What about Frank Gore or a host of other players who knew him? What about any number of fans who met him? What about his family? I’m sure that Wilbon can see the irresponsible reporting of this man’s life, and he seems to be content to sit back and not correct it.

(Sigh) I apologize for making this so long and for going off on a rant of sorts. Hopefully this tragedy will do more to pull us together. I hope that it brings some understanding and I would also hope that we will be slow to make judgments and comments about others. I don’t want anyone to think that I’m just trying to play the “race card.” I just want us all to think and listen a bit more than we do now.

[CandaceM23]

It will be interesting to see how this one goes ....

:munchout:

[turbrn2007]

Great post man!!

[Hunny]

a long read, yes.. but insightful & smart. i do agree. sean was no 'thug.'

[#21Taylor4Ever]

Your words sum up all this in a nutshell and I thank you for them! I've been saying the same exact things for the past two days, even before then as Taylor was labeled a thug before his death.

You should forward this to all those morons like Wilbon, Cow****, etc and demand they explain, even after the facts are staring them in the face, how Sean Taylor is a thug. I guarantee if you call a radio show, you will mysteriously be disconnected and they'll go on without you. Ha!

I love this!!!

[fansince62]

nice post.

1) You're right ST wasn't a thug. He was in the process of beconing a young man and father.

2) You're right that much of the commentary has been...well...uninformed and way off base.

3) I do believe you may have underplayed one point: from Ray Brown to Deion to even Wilbon (and I am not a fan of his)..there was a lot of commentary on Black on Black crime and the need for Black Community leadership to engage.

4) I heard plenty commentators label Romanowski a disgrace after his drug incidents and the equivalent of a thug (using different terminology). And fans certainly called him that and worse. The difference has been that unfortunately.....the majority of recent high profile incidents have involved Black athletes. I would note that one good out of this is that more people understand - if they weren't paying attention before - that Black athletes through no fault of their own are incraesingly becoming targets. It makes me angry at times that Sean wasn't directde by either the police, the team or the NFL not to return to his home or be provided some form of protection: there was a prior threat for crying out loud just the week before. the NFL simply advised ST. I understand he is a private citizen and can't be told wh tto do....but somewhere the process broke down.

[brianforster]

listen, i hear you, i really do. but as long as professional athletes buy into mainstream hip-hop, these comparisons are going to be made. the line is blurring and both pay unnecessary homage to the "thug life".

trends such as "stop snitchin" and people who never made it out of that life wanting to make their famous friends feel guilty for making it are going to continue to haunt these young multi-millionaires.

now, the white versus black debate, or for this context, the use of the word thug, comes into play here. im a white male, in college, and their is also an emphasis on the hip hop lifestyle. everyone wants to be a badass, everyone wants to be a baller, at this age we imitate hip-hop artists and professional athletes. the problem arises because we as a society police ourselves, so in a hip-hop oriented community, the people that don't belong are called out. THUS we have white players in the nfl involuntarily not being a part of this "hip-hop" lifestyle that is glamorized by their peers.

If Reed Doughty had asante samuels 'get paid' tattoo, would we not think its ridiculous? I know Asante's tattoo is already ridiculous, but somehow in my mind, it just fits him? Does that make me racist? I'm not sure, I'm just callin it like I see it.

[DCsportsfan53]

Thank you for this post. A very insightful and, I believe, accurate summary of what many of us have been feeling.

[DjTj]

Pretty well written, but you're going to get a lot of people saying, "Oh, I would call Romanowski a thug too..."

This whole phenomenon has turned some wheels in my head recently too, and Ghost has said some really thought-provoking things in the past few days.

Here's what I think:

Saying "thug" is not a code word for n-----, and it doesn't mean someone is racist. In fact, I think people use the word "thug" because they are purposefully trying not to be racist.

Using the word "thug" is a way to divide black people into "thugs" and regular people (Chris Rock uses the terms "black people" and "n-----s"). When a white person calls a black person a "thug" they do so because they want to separate that "thug" from the black people that they like - they want to put Fifty Cent and Pacman Jones on one side and put Michael Jordan and Colin Powell on another side. They don't hate ALL black people; they hate THOSE black people, and they call them "thugs."

It's like why people use the word "illegal" to emphasize that they don't hate all Mexicans or "redneck" or "skinhead" to emphasize that they don't hate all white people ... you can say, "I hate those rednecks, but not you Jethro..."

What it all stems from is the very natural human instinct of xenophobia - we are all a little bit afraid of people that are different from us. That's why racism developed in the first place: everyone looked at blacks as different from whites, so they were given a name, n-----s, that emphasized it. Now, we don't look at blacks as that different from whites. A white kid can look at a black man and say, "I want to be like Mike." America has become very comfortable with black people in general, so much so that that a black man has a legitimate shot at the Presidency this year. We can no longer look at all black people as fundamentally different from whites, so the word n----- has become taboo.

Nevertheless, the xenophobia still exists for a subset of blacks. While middle America can relate to Condi Rice or Dwayne Wade, they can't really relate to Soulja Boy or Stephen Jackson. Many black people just don't seem that different from white people anymore, but there is still a group of blacks that seems completely foreign: we call them "thugs."

So I would say that the "thug" phenomenon isn't evidence of racism, but it comes from the same place as racism: it's an attempt to label people who are different from you.

People didn't understand Sean Taylor. He was mysterious off the field and his hard-hitting style on the field made him dangerous in peoples' minds. The shooting enhanced that fear because nobody wanted to think, "Oh my god, that could happen to me ... that could happen to US." People wanted to believe that those things only happen to THEM. Xenophobia kicked in, and Taylor got labeled as different: they called him a "thug."

[DCsportsfan53]

A poignant, informative and thought provoking post from DjTj? Who'd have thought, what's the world coming to? I've never seen that before.

:laugh:

Good stuff man, I think it's definitely been a week of much reflection on all aspects of life for many of us, certainly has been for me.

[fansince62]

Pretty well written, but you're going to get a lot of people saying, "Oh, I would call Romanowski a thug too..."

This whole phenomenon has turned some wheels in my head recently too, and Ghost has said some really thought-provoking things in the past few days.

Here's what I think:

Saying "thug" is not a code word for n-----, and it doesn't mean someone is racist. In fact, I think people use the word "thug" because they are purposefully trying not to be racist.

Using the word "thug" is a way to divide black people into "thugs" and regular people (Chris Rock uses the terms "black people" and "n-----s"). When a white person calls a black person a "thug" they do so because they want to separate that "thug" from the black people that they like - they want to put Fifty Cent and Pacman Jones on one side and put Michael Jordan and Colin Powell on another side. They don't hate ALL black people; they hate THOSE black people, and they call them "thugs."

It's like why people use the word "illegal" to emphasize that they don't hate all Mexicans or "redneck" or "skinhead" to emphasize that they don't hate all white people ... you can say, "I hate those rednecks, but not you Jethro..."

What it all stems from is the very natural human instinct of xenophobia - we are all a little bit afraid of people that are different from us. That's why racism developed in the first place: everyone looked at blacks as different from whites, so they were given a name, n-----s, that emphasized it. Now, we don't look at blacks as that different from whites. A white kid can look at a black man and say, "I want to be like Mike." America has become very comfortable with black people in general, so much so that that a black man has a legitimate shot at the Presidency this year. We can no longer look at all black people as fundamentally different from whites, so the word n----- has become taboo.

Nevertheless, the xenophobia still exists for a subset of blacks. While middle America can relate to Condi Rice or Dwayne Wade, they can't really relate to Soulja Boy or Stephen Jackson. Many black people just don't seem that different from white people anymore, but there is still a group of blacks that seems completely foreign: we call them "thugs."

So I would say that the "thug" phenomenon isn't evidence of racism, but it comes from the same place as racism: it's an attempt to label people who are different from you.

People didn't understand Sean Taylor. He was mysterious off the field and his hard-hitting style on the field made him dangerous in peoples' minds. The shooting enhanced that fear because nobody wanted to think, "Oh my god, that could happen to me ... that could happen to US." People wanted to believe that those things only happen to THEM. Xenophobia kicked in, and Taylor got labeled as different: they called him a "thug."

not disputing much of what you say...so...in your lexicon..the phrase "white trash" or "ignornat red neck"...equate to thug? white threats are also singled out and grouped...it's natural to do so.........labels abstract group attributes. in our currently charged society...one has to be carfeul which labels are used. and what about white collar Black criminals? I don't hear them referred to as thugs (e.g., Congressman Jefferson). There is more to it than this simple breakdown. What I will agree to is that what we see in the media is generally focused on Black crime...not Black successes..or street level white crime...this can twist perceptions.

[Thinking Skins]

I'm glad I took the time to sit and read that. I've been having this very conversation with some peers of mine. What upsets me the most about this Sean Taylor thing is the comments like "I know very little about Sean Taylor, but I know he's a thug...". If I had the opportunity, I'd try to get these people to intellectually tell me why he is a thug; to properly define a thug; and to show what aspects of Taylor's life had those characteristics.

But I know I'll never get the chance. I even thought about giving them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, these guys are reporters and have access to a lot more information than the average guy. So there may be stories about Sean Taylor's personal life that they kept quiet on purpose. I HIGHLY doubt that this would happen because of the media's lust for money, but even if it did, the day the man was shot, nor the day the man died are not the proper times to start criticizing him for his lifestyle. But in the event that this is all their speculation (which I highly believe), then it does more than show just insensivity and stupidity, but I'd go a step further and say it shows these reporters as just some money hungry maggets who are willing to start controversal speculation just to keep their names in the news.

I know if I'd call this racist though. If anything, I see it as capitalist for the reasons I spoke above. It just seems to happen more often at the expense of Black men. And although calling a man a thug seems to be putting him into a certain lower class, its definately not on the same level as using the n word. The word thug is moreso a steriotype of "because he looks a certain way, he must be doing certain things. " Then they look at the blemishes over a man's life and use those as excuses for using the term.

But since so many reporters say that they weren't surprised by this, I wonder now who else they expect to be murdered? They should start using these psychic powers to let players who fit their definition of a thug that "I expect you to die soon". Maybe then they'll see how ignorant their comments sound. Or at least they'll get punched in the mouth for my amusement.

[Broohaha]

thanks for saying what many of us are thinking.

[REDSKINS8181]

Good post! The only thing I would have to add is that it was pretty apparent to most fans that he was growing up on the field as well as off of it. I didn't see the so called 'dirty' or late hits, or the trash talking as of late. As far as Pittman goes, I'm sure he said something pretty terrible to get a reaction like that. I don't know if it was warranted, but I'm sure Pittman baited him and he took it. Plus, Pittman was a wife beater and wasn't exactly a model citizen, either.

[GamaGoliath]

Pretty well written, but you're going to get a lot of people saying, "Oh, I would call Romanowski a thug too..."

Here's what I think:

Saying "thug" is not a code word for n-----, and it doesn't mean someone is racist. In fact, I think people use the word "thug" because they are purposefully trying not to be racist.

Thanks to all who have posted. After all my time being registered here, I've never posted a thread. Thanks.

DjTj, I generally agree with what you are saying here. But like I wrote in my post, it's that extra twist to the knife that lets you know where people stand. Adding remarks about the "ghetto" and the "hood" as well as some over generalizations of what they think a thug is. For some people, it's most definately a code word. If you take a look around other boards, there's no mistaking it. It was disturbing enough for me to finally post something on it.

[DjTj]

not disputing much of what you say...so...in your lexicon..the phrase "white trash" or "ignornat red neck"...equate to thug? white threats are also singled out and grouped...it's natural to do so.........labels abstract group attributes. in our currently charged society...one has to be carfeul which labels are used. and what about white collar Black criminals? I don't hear them referred to as thugs (e.g., Congressman Jefferson). There is more to it than this simple breakdown. What I will agree to is that what we see in the media is generally focused on Black crime...not Black successes..or street level white crime...this can twist perceptions.

Well I don't think I really made any normative judgments ... being called a "thug" is probably worse than being called a "redneck" in terms of how the media might eulogize you, but I think that those labels do all come from the same psychological processes.

Black white-collar criminals kind of defy stereotypes and there isn't a good label for them - is O.J. a thug? :whoknows: We like to categorize everything into groups, but it's not always that easy.

I will agree that blacks suffer disproportionately from these negative stereotypes. I think minorities in general are just more susceptible because of the fact that this all stems from a natural xenophobia ... a group of people that looks different from the majority is much more susceptible to these labels. I guess I hesitate to call it racism per se ... there is a racial component, and the results are racially disproportionate, but the bad intent is not necessarily there.

For some people, it's most definately a code word. If you take a look around other boards, there's no mistaking it. It was disturbing enough for me to finally post something on it.

Of course there will always be real racists, but I think even the people using "thug" with disdain aren't really being racist - it's not about hating black people, what Wilbon and Whitlock (and Chris Rock and Bill Cosby) are doing is trying to divide black people ... it's complicated.

[wpenn1]

Lets address his “transgressions”. The major incident being his decision to confront some thieves. The mature man would have let it go, and/or called the authorities if he had information about the theft of his property. Unfortunately, Taylor didn’t have the maturity or wisdom to deal with the situation properly. It was definitely a knucklehead move. But if I were young and had access to a firearm, I might have done the same thing. I’ve had my car broken into on SEVERAL occasions, and I’m telling you that if I had a gun and knew who did it, I more than likely would have done something just as stupid. Would that have made me a “thug?” No, but it would have been a impulsive and stupid thing to do. Never the less, Sean answered for it and put it behind him.

good point i was thinking the same thing. Now imagine if you are in the NFL and known as a hard hitting tough 22 year old guy from the "U". Would you have been willing to "snitch" to the Police. Hell no. Its about growing up I did stupid **** when I was 22 and I didnt have the money nor fame he had.

[Ellis]

GamaGoliath, your post has opened my eyes up to things that we should all understand.

I have a niece who is half white/black. If you ever met her, you wouldn't even know she was half white. I have personally witnessed many stereotypes that she has had to endure. I remember when she came home from school sad because someone had called her the N word. She didn't know what it menat, but she knew it was very bad. The hardest thing for me was having to explain to her what had happened. Being a white man, you have no idea how hard that was to do. Damn near impossible.

With the tragic death of Sean Taylor, perhaps the good that can come from it is more understanding of stereotypes and just how damaging they are to the black community. We need more people like you coming out with well thoughtout posts like this. But we need to spread these types of posts beyond the internet. I encourage you to send your post to as many newspapers as you can, as well as sending it to people such as Wilbon and the like.

I'm disappointed in myself because when I hear about people in the news such as Pacman Jones or Vick, etc... I believed what was being said. Then Taylor was lumped in with them. I find myself today asking, "How much of what we were told through the media about Jones or Vick was true?" I feel I KNOW who Sean Taylor was and I'm sad that he is portrayed negatively. From this week on, I will definitely be more critical of how black athletes are portrayed in the media if they get into trouble.

We are all learning. We will all be better people in the long run.

[Special K]

Great post man. My sentiments exactly! Sean Taylor was no thug by any stretch of the imagination. It's absolutely sickening to watch the media so grossly mispresent him. Frickin' disgusting.

[tinyval]

You really should send this to the Washington Post or Miami Herald (although b/c it's the truth they probably won't print it). Very well done.

[The 12th Commandment]

Thanks for taking the time to put that together it's very poignant. This is really a cool place where I can read such a well thought out position. I'll admit it's one that makes curious because I don't understand it.

I'd like to put my two cents in here because I think of myself as being as un-conscious of race as I possibly can be in my life plus I'm not as smart or articulate as DjTj (but I'm probably a lot more common). None of this is meant as offensive, I'm just describing, the best as I can, my perspective I guess. The same way as you did though yours sounds smarter. I really just mean it in the spirit of communication. I hope everybody can take it in that way.

I wasn't some rich kid growing up but I was middle class, everyone worked but we weren't hungry. There wasn't a lot of crime in my neighborhood (burglary, vandalism and some drugs) and that probably explains a lot of my lack of understanding. Nonetheless taking a gun would've never, ever occurred to me and I always had access to one. Someone stole me or my friends stuff we beat them up. There was never any weapons, though there were people who wound up in the hospital. Taking a gun to a confrontation like that is "thug" in my eyes. Not something that has to follow someone the rest of their life, but for a good long while.

I'd say if Sean's death was a result of prior association, though I'm not saying it necessarily was, then it couldn't be argued that it was due directly to thuggish behavior. It shouldn't be surprising that he's not getting the benefit of the doubt. On any factual association between that behavior and the shooting I'll defer my judgement and so should the media. We are kinda talking in hypotheticals though. It wasn't that long ago that he was involved what I (and I think most middle class people) would call thuggish behavior. I'd say when you do really bad things, which I would consider that, it takes a long time to recover your reputation.

If I went to prison for any felony I'd be derided by a whole lot of people I know. I'd be suspect for a long time after I got out. Be it a violent crime or white collar. I would be treated the same way by the people I know as I would treat someone I considered a thug, if my crime were violent /thuggish. They wouldn't understand how I could do that. Just like I can't understand how ST did. I'm biased towards the guy there's no question. I generally believe in the goodness of most people. I would've given him, and anyone for that matter, many more chances to turn himself around. I honestly believe he was in the process anyway.

White collar black criminals seem to me, to be treated the same as any other white collar criminal. I also think that there are plenty of white people who exhibit thuggish behavior and I wasn't aware, if in the popular lexicon, it's grown to mean hip/hop exclusively. I wouldn't mean it that way if I said it. Those reporter's probably had a similar upbringing to mine I don't think they do either. At least the old fart's. :laugh:

I feel for people forced to live in that that don't want to be that way. And I always vote for increased funding to try and change it. That's what I figure I can do. I applaud the many who do escape it. Truthfully if I were to go try and understand it where would I start? Actually here is a pretty good place. Not that people here are thugs just that they know about that lifestyle more than I do. I also know that in some places white people can be real dicks, I saw them doing that to each other in the North East when I lived there. Freaked me out. But so can everybody else. I know whites have more power in this country. I don't demand that it be so, I'd be happy with anybody solid in a leadership position. I think it's changing for the better. I do my part to see that it does in my little world.

I seem to find no shortage of black, mexican or whatever heritage that are part of my "crowd". I run around and work very closely with people of all different heritages (including black) - that's the truth. From whatever background they came from, they're relatively intelligent people who are nice for lack of a better word. Thugs aren't nice.

Again, I really hope you can read this in this in the spirit that I mean it. It's just the ramblings of a middle aged white guy. I still think of myself as a kid really, too bad nobody else does. I apologize if it offends anybody I don't mean to. After all we're all brothers and sisters with the Skin's. I can say that can't I?:paranoid: :laugh:

I use a lot of smileys cause I don't write so good. Uunnnhhh.

Maybe if I, and people like me, have more discourse like this with people that are different we might both come away understanding better. I appreciate the opportunity.

[DCsportsfan53]

Good post! The only thing I would have to add is that it was pretty apparent to most fans that he was growing up on the field as well as off of it. I didn't see the so called 'dirty' or late hits, or the trash talking as of late. As far as Pittman goes, I'm sure he said something pretty terrible to get a reaction like that. I don't know if it was warranted, but I'm sure Pittman baited him and he took it. Plus, Pittman was a wife beater and wasn't exactly a model citizen, either.

I'd like to throw out a little thought I had reading this post. I'm not entirely sure how you meant it but, I'd be real hesitant to make those characterizations about Pittman. Afterall, isn't that doing exactly what we're all in pain from seeing people do to Sean? From all accounts down there, much like in Sean's life, Pittman's earlier struggles have led to drastic changes in his life and he's become a hugely important leader on their team. Not saying I know one way or the other, but given the absolute garbage we've had to read about Sean, I'm inclined to give his coaches and teammates the benefit of the doubt in the matter instead of taking media perception or years' old transgressions as a matter of gospel. Just a thought I had. :2cents:

[DCsportsfan53]

Remember also, KAOSkins, it absolutely should not be taken as fact that he had a gun that day. He denied that from day one, no gun was ever found and the only people that accused him of it were the same convicted criminals who stole his **** and shot up his house and car. Just a thought. Even before this, I've always held pretty serious doubts about whether or not he in fact had one.

[The 12th Commandment]

Remember also, KAOSkins, it absolutely should not be taken as fact that he had a gun that day. He denied that from day one, no gun was ever found and the only people that accused him of it were the same convicted criminals who stole his **** and shot up his house and car. Just a thought. Even before this, I've always held pretty serious doubts about whether or not he in fact had one.

I hadn't thought of that and it could very well be true. If so then the injustice is for real. But the fact that he was in a position in the first place, where he had to plead to get out of it, is little damning. Think of it though, if the whole story behind his previous behavior is all the result of people making stuff up it would be a true tragedy. There really is only that one time and the other guys certainly weren't any honest angels and you'd figure they were packing. You'd think though, if anything, that knowledge would've meant Sean and co. would've brought a weapon too. I don't know.

It's a sad situation regardless I really believe the guy was going to be something extraordinary and no good can come from slamming him in the press. The hunger for this sort of news is a sad situation too.

Edit: I didn't matter that's clear now. I'm as guilty as anyone for thinking it did. R.I.P. Sean. I hope he's completely vindicated in the media, they owe it to him. The only thing that influenced this tragady was where he came from geographically, that isn't something he had control over.