Larry Brown #43 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I have always thought that if the Redskins had to change their name, they should keep the exact same logo, but change the name to "The Americans."Short for Native Americans, and it would really piss off the Cowboys. Wow, this honestly might be the best approach to the problem I have ever heard. I never thought of it, but it makes perfect sense. It would be the ultimate sign of respect for Native Americans, because we'd essentially be calling them Americans -- as in, they were here first. Brilliant, actually. Having said that...I hope the current name is never changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliffBattles Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Wow, this honestly might be the best approach to the problem I have ever heard. I never thought of it, but it makes perfect sense. It would be the ultimate sign of respect for Native Americans, because we'd essentially be calling them Americans -- as in, they were here first. Brilliant, actually.Having said that...I hope the current name is never changed. Bingo. I, also never want the name changed....but, yes American is even more respectful than Native American....they are the real Americans....we are the immigrants. Plus, it would really piss off the rest of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duenni Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Sorry if this has been dealt with before. I ran a search on the key terms "offensive Redskins name" and the only result that appeared was a picture of Brandon Lloyd. I just spilled my Dr. Pepper!!!! too funny :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wysknz1 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 A few years ago in Colorado a sports club used the name "Fighting Whities" to show how a nickname can be offensive. It backfired and everyone went out to get a t-shiet with that on it. So it just faded into the sunset and was never heard of again. I thought that was funny I'm of Czech dissent, and there's an old term called bohemian or "bohunk" that some have used as an insult of sorts. I don't. I actually kinda like it. Especially when my Mother- in- law would try to use it against me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flash22 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Ignorance is bliss isn't it. Racism in the form of sports franchise names is a big issue. I'm a 'Skins fan until I die but I don't deny that Redskin is racist, as is Indian, Brave, Warrior, etc. The Native Americans that I know (and I'm talking about professors and college students) do have issues with the names. But in truth they have an issue with how it's all portrayed more than anything. The cartoonish Cleveland emblem for example is insanely racist. Tha fact that our band wears traditional native head dress is racist and sterotypical. Our fans chanting and beating drums is racist. My Native American Studies prof has explained that if teams like the Redskins used the name with honor they would have zero problem. But from what I have seen on tv of our games we don't. We use the sterotypical images and run with them. One day our team will lose it's name and truth be told it'll be the FO's fault for not adjusting and bringing in Native Americans and asking what can we do to keep our name and honor your legacy at the same time. yes Ignorance is bliss If we can't use the name Indian, brave or warroir then i guess Notre Dame shouldn't be able to use fighting Irish cause im Irish so that isn't right. Im a catholic so maybe they shouldn't allow the duke "blue devils". As a tall person the name "giants" is very offensive. Do any americans find the term "patriots" Offensive. How bout the New Orleanes "saint" you cant just ban native american names and call them racist...Its not racist unless there degrating the name which the term redskins is clearly not doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 There is a million dollar clause in Greg Williams contract that he will be the next head coach alot of you seem to forget that. This is a topic that has been discussed myriad times here ... and unfortunately, what often start out as a civil discussion turns ugly when accusations of bigotry, racism, etc., start getting thrown around. For that reason, most threads about this have ended up getting closed. It would be nice to think ES can still host civil conversations about potentially controversial subjects ... *hint* ... without having them get nasty, so we'll leave it open as long as it remains so. One request ... if and when someone DOES make an incendiary or baiting comment, as I see one or two have done, if the rest of us will simply ignore them rather than make it worse by responding ... that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 One day our team will lose it's name and truth be told it'll be the FO's fault for not adjusting and bringing in Native Americans and asking what can we do to keep our name and honor your legacy at the same time. I'm pretty sure the current logo on our helmet was designed, or at the very least specifically endorsed, by a Native American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Our fans chanting and beating drums is racist. Florida State and Atlanta Braves fans chant at their games...and the guy at the Cleveland Indians games bangs a drum...but I'm not familiar with any Redskin fans who do either one. One day our team will lose it's name and truth be told it'll be the FO's fault for not adjusting and bringing in Native Americans and asking what can we do to keep our name and honor your legacy at the same time. Should we consult one of the 90 + percent of Native Americans who are not bothered by the name? I don't necessarily have a problem with changing some of the organization's practices or policies IF they are indeed offensive TO Native Americans (and I don't mean offensive to rich, white college students and professors). But I do have a major problem with changing the team name when it's been deemed non-offensive by the only people who have a right to be offended by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplohmillers#1 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I was having an argument with a buddy the other day about whether native americans find the name "Redskins" offensive. I could have sworn there was a recent study showing that the vast majority of native americans did not find it offensive, but couldn't pinpoint it. Help me, my brethren, so that I may triumph in this argument.Sorry if this has been dealt with before. I ran a search on the key terms "offensive Redskins name" and the only result that appeared was a picture of Brandon Lloyd. Yeah good call. I agree we should be able to fire off more racist ephphets. Why's the redskins offensive? Kindda like when Crayola got introuble for racist crayon colors i.e. Indian Red, and Skin (which was essentially white skin tone). Let's just call a spade a spade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDSKYNYRD Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Being 1/4 Tuscarora Indian and from an area with a large population of Native American's, I can tell you that I do not, nor most that I've talked to about this very subject take offense to the name. If the lawyers would keep their ambulance chasing #%* out of things, we would be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonecrusher31 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I've responded to threads like this before...I worked at an Indian casino for 8 years in Arizona and knew ALOT of Native Americans...being as die hard a Skins fan as I am I asked MANY of them what they thought of the name/logo. Not one person thought of it as being offensive. In fact, some of them claimed to like the Redskins BECAUSE of the name/logo. Trust me, there are far greater concerns on most reservations thatn what some team calls itself. Alcoholism and Diabetes is very high on most reservations...the communities that have gaming are very often able to provide servies for the community but it takes alot of hard work and focus... In my experience, the continuted debate over this is insulting to Native Americans...it really is NOT an issue with the vast majority. Oh really, well I worked for the Gila River Tribe and Casino a few years back and most of the Natives there stated that they like to call themselves skins when talking about each other but "redskin" is offensive but why complain ? Nothing will be done about it ...Will it ? and you know what they say....If one person finds a slur offensive... ITS OFFENSIVE...... Don't try to add numbers to it and use that as validation of it not being a Racial Slur....It is and you all know it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDSKYNYRD Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Oh really, well I worked for the Gila River Tribe and Casino a few years back and most of the Natives there stated that they like to call themselves skins when talking about each other but "redskin" is offensive but why complain ? Nothing will be done about it ...Will it ?and you know what they say....If one person finds a slur offensive... ITS OFFENSIVE...... Don't try to add numbers to it and use that as validation of it not being a Racial Slur....It is and you all know it is... Political correctness is killing us man. We need to grow some thick skin. I hear Redneck used all the time. What's next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinthemboys Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 to be honest, I dont give a rats ass who it offends. If they want to start a new hockey team full of white men and call it "cracker jacks" I wouldnt care either. People are too damn sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswerdlw Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Just for fun, here's a thought. Most people refer to the Redskins as the 'Skins, right? So, if push came to shove, we could change the name to the Pigskins and replace the image of the Native American with the image of a Hog. We do like and identify with the Hogs, right? Football = Pigskin. And we could still be the 'Skins. ...unless, of course, this wouldn't be kosher. Oy vey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinsbandnerd Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Re: Do native Americans find the name "Redskins" offensive No, but white liberals on college campuses certainly do :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: AHAHAHA! Brilliant. But, it's my understanding that many natives do NOT find the name offensive in the least. Some even say they find the logo very respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yeah good call. I agree we should be able to fire off more racist ephphets. Why's the redskins offensive? Kindda like when Crayola got introuble for racist crayon colors i.e. Indian Red, and Skin (which was essentially white skin tone). Let's just call a spade a spade. "indian red" referred to a type of dye that came from India, not the color of native americans' skin. "flesh" was phased out in the 1950's. any more urban legends you care to put forward as fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 and you know what they say....If one person finds a slur offensive...ITS OFFENSIVE...... Don't try to add numbers to it and use that as validation of it not being a Racial Slur....It is and you all know it is... is that how it works? if one person is offended, the rest of the world must refrain? i mean, is that really feasible? what if some cattle rustler out there decided he didn't like the term "cowboy"? would you defend HIS lawsuit against Dallas? (actually now that i think about it, YES I WOULD!) :laugh: :dallasuck :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 If the Redskin name is offensive, shouldn't the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves be questioned as well? I don't think the name is offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINS FAN #56 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I was having an argument with a buddy the other day about whether native americans find the name "Redskins" offensive. I could have sworn there was a recent study showing that the vast majority of native americans did not find it offensive, but couldn't pinpoint it. Help me, my brethren, so that I may triumph in this argument.Sorry if this has been dealt with before. I ran a search on the key terms "offensive Redskins name" and the only result that appeared was a picture of Brandon Lloyd. Can't remember where I heard the information but it was on t.v. I recall the stat being that 70% of Native Americans don't, and 30% do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byner21 Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Why not just go for the name Washington Blackskins, since a majority of DC residents are black. Now what will be the logo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 If the Redskin name is offensive, shouldn't the Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves be questioned as well? the words "Indians" and even "Braves" don't have quite the same history of negative connotation as the term "redskins". however, i DO feel the Redskins organization has put forth a more respectful and dignified image of native americans than any other team based on a native american mascot. having said that, though, i admit the term Redskin was used negatively in the past. BUT. can a racist term's offensiveness EXPIRE? i would argue the answer is YES, and that it in fact HAS with the term Redskin. unlike the n-word, NOBODY uses the term "redskin" nowadays to denigrate native americans, whereas the N-word obviously clearly carries a ton of emotional baggage (just ask Dog the Bounty Hunter). "redskin" almost universally conjures up an image of a football player. what does the n-word conjure? i'm not a linguist or any kind of expert on the subject, but there are plenty of terms for people that were formerly VERY offensive or insulting but frankly over time faded from being harsh or offensive. Yankee is a good example, off the top of my head, and of course "fighting irish" would count as a slur, considering the intense racism against the irish at the turn of the century and later. however, since there's not really a lot of systemic or embedded anti-irish racism in our culture, the term "fighting irish" registers more goofy than offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDSKYNYRD Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 the words "Indians" and even "Braves" don't have quite the same history of negative connotation as the term "redskins". however, i DO feel the Redskins organization has put forth a more respectful and dignified image of native americans than any other team based on a native american mascot.having said that, though, i admit the term Redskin was used negatively in the past. BUT. can a racist term's offensiveness EXPIRE? i would argue the answer is YES, and that it in fact HAS with the term Redskin. unlike the n-word, NOBODY uses the term "redskin" nowadays to denigrate native americans, whereas the N-word obviously clearly carries a ton of emotional baggage (just ask Dog the Bounty Hunter). "redskin" almost universally conjures up an image of a football player. what does the n-word conjure? i'm not a linguist or any kind of expert on the subject, but there are plenty of terms for people that were formerly VERY offensive or insulting but frankly over time faded from being harsh or offensive. Yankee is a good example, off the top of my head, and of course "fighting irish" would count as a slur, considering the intense racism against the irish at the turn of the century and later. however, since there's not really a lot of systemic or embedded anti-irish racism in our culture, the term "fighting irish" registers more goofy than offensive. Christians may take offense to "Demon Decons" or Blue Devils"...God is already under attack, what's next people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/02/AR2005100201139.html Here is some history on the subject. Also please note that the woman who sued the Redskins to change the name of the club had American Indians who also joined the lawsuit. A total of 6, that's right 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I dunno what that above says ^^^^^ but someone posted a while back that the name was derived by a native American coach and he had 3 on the team that year as well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunBunch7 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Oh really, well I worked for the Gila River Tribe and Casino a few years back and most of the Natives there stated that they like to call themselves skins when talking about each other but "redskin" is offensive but why complain ? Nothing will be done about it ...Will it ?and you know what they say....If one person finds a slur offensive... ITS OFFENSIVE...... Don't try to add numbers to it and use that as validation of it not being a Racial Slur....It is and you all know it is... Of course "some" people will find it offensive. Someone on a ranch in Texas probably finds "Cowboys" offensive...The Pope might find "Saints" offensive... All I know, is that working at Fort McDowell Casino for 8 years in Valet I had alot of time to talk sports with alot of people. Many of them were Native Americans and Tribal Members. Some of them were my friends and they knew me as a suffering Redskin fan throughout the mid-late 90's. These people had no problem with the name...they'd wear Redskin caps, Chiefs cap, FSU Caps, etc. We'd talk football all the time and these people's lives were not affected one way or the other by the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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