Bin Laden Urges Iraqi Insurgents To Unite

[JMS]

Bin Laden Urges Iraqi Insurgents To Unite (Keyrouz, AFP)

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

AFP

By Wissam Keyrouz

Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden called on leaders of the insurgency in Iraq to bury their rivalries and unite in a common fight against the US-led coalition, in an audiotape broadcast Monday on Al-Jazeera.

In the message addressed to "my brother fighters in Iraq", the purported voice of bin Laden called on the insurgent groups to fulfil their "duty" to unite "so that they become one, as God wants."

"My brothers, emirs of the mujahedeen, Muslims are waiting for you to gather under one banner so that justice can be served," said the voice.

Bin Laden, in the tape whose authenticity could not immediately be confirmed, said some fighters had committed "mistakes" -- without elaborating -- and called for insurgents not to follow "their leaders and groups blindly".

He urged fighters "to beware of sectarianism and not to join up to a party of men, groups or nations. We are brothers in faith because we belong to Islam and not to a tribe, an organisation or a country."

The tape on Al-Jazeera is the latest by the head of the terror network since September 20, when bin Laden called for jihad, or holy war, against Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf over his administration's support for Washington.

Bin Laden called Monday for "honest men of faith ... to exert efforts to unify the ranks of the fighters and to continue without tiring on the path to achieving that".

Al-Jazeera television accompanied the tape with a file picture of bin Laden, with a salt-and-pepper beard and a white cloth covering his head.

US military and Iraqi officials say thousands of Iraqis have joined a campaign to restore order alongside US forces in various parts of the country, following the example of a Sunni tribal sheikh, Abdul Sattar Abu Risha.

The sheikh, who was however killed in an Al-Qaeda attack on September 13, had persuaded Sunni tribes hostile to the US occupation to join the fight against local extremist cells inspired by Al-Qaeda.

After bin Laden's last message in September, the United States dismissed his call to overthrow Musharraf's government and pledged to work closely with ally Pakistan to confront extremism.

Bin Laden declared Al-Qaeda's intention to retaliate for the blood spilled by "champions of Islam".

"It is obligatory on the Muslims in Pakistan to carry out jihad and fighting to remove Pervez, his government, his army and those who help him," said the voice in the tape, monitored by the US-based SITE Intelligence Group.

That recording was accompanied by video footage of the Western world's most wanted man, including scenes of him firing a machine-gun and walking in a mountainous area with his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri.

The threat from bin Laden was also dismissed by Pakistan.

"We are already committed to fighting extremists and terrorists -- there is no change in our policy," chief military spokesman Major General Waheed Arshad told AFP in Islamabad.

Earlier last month, a bin Laden video was released to coincide with the sixth anniversary of the September 11 attacks on the United States in which nearly 3,000 people were killed.

Despite a massive manhunt and a 25-million dollar bounty on his head, bin Laden has evaded capture and has regularly taunted the United States and its allies through warnings issued on video and audio cassettes._uacct = "UA-2410969-1";urchinTracker();

[SkinsHokieFan]

AQ is getting real desperate in Iraq. Since the Iraqi Sunni's turned against them, its been lights out

After seeing all of the horrible things AQI did to Iraqi's, the show is over for them in terms of support

[Blackest Eyes]

Why won't they all die already?

[Air Force Cane]

If we are losing in Iraq- why is it that AL QAEDA are the ones trying to unite their own disjointed and factionalized forces?

if we are losing in Iraq- why is it that civilian deaths have dropped in the last several months?

if we are losing in Iraq- why is it that US military deaths have dropped in the last several months?

if we are losing in Iraq- why are there more Iraqis serving in their security forces than ever before?

if we are losing in Iraq- why are Ramadi and Fallujah in the best shape they have been in since before the war?

if we are losing in Iraq- why have bomb attacks, mortar attacks, and IED levels dropped in the last four months consecutively?

someone please explain...

[zoony]

AQ is getting real desperate in Iraq. Since the Iraqi Sunni's turned against them, its been lights out

After seeing all of the horrible things AQI did to Iraqi's, the show is over for them in terms of support

[JMS]

If we are losing in Iraq- why is it that AL QAEDA are the ones trying to unite their own disjointed and factionalized forces?

Because Al Quada is not now nor have they ever been our primary foe in Iraq.

if we are losing in Iraq- why is it that civilian deaths have dropped in the last several months?

Primarily because the Pentagon purposely doesn't keep track of Iraqi civilian deaths so some folks can claim whatever they like on Civilian deaths without needing documentation to support their claims. Like you are doing now.

if we are losing in Iraq- why is it that US military deaths have dropped in the last several months?

:doh: Because in our five year history in Iraq attacks and casualties have always dropped in the summer months when tempertures reach 130 degrees. If you note death rates over June, July, and August are always traditionally lower. Likewise American casualites are way up over last year at this time.

I will grant you that so far in October casualties are significantly lower. In September they were slightly lower. We don't have a three months trend, but we might have the beginning of a trend.. Just as the surge is about to end.

if we are losing in Iraq- why are there more Iraqis serving in their security forces than ever before?

After four years of occupation there wasn't a single Iraqi division which could work independently in the field. After five years of occupation the fact that we have a single Iraqi division capable of working independently is not something to brag about.

if we are losing in Iraq- why are Ramadi and Fallujah in the best shape they have been in since before the war?

Cause one of the strategys of the surge has been to put more troops into those cities and Al-Anbar province in general. So the insurgents have left that province. John McCain called it a giant game of Whack a mole. The problem is Bagdad, Dialaya, and Salah ad-Din provinces are all significantly worse off than they were last year leading to a net increase in casualties.

http://icasualties.org/oif/Provincemap.aspx

if we are losing in Iraq- why have bomb attacks, mortar attacks, and IED levels dropped in the last four months consecutively?

someone please explain...

They haven't. They dropped in June July and August just like they have every year since we invaded. However June July and August saw more casualties in 2007 than 2006. In Sept we were slightly better off this year.

October is perhaps the beginning of a trend however. We lost 110 guys in October 2006, we lost 30 guys so far October 2007. That's a significant figure; but it's too early to tell if it's real or an aboration. Like I said casualties in 2007 June, July, August, were all up against 2006 numbers just like 2006 was up against 2005 numbers. ( 2005 August was the only month higher than 2006 numbers of the months I mentioned. )

October has been a very good month so far in Iraq, I'll grant you that. Let's cross our finger and hope November follows suite.

Again check http://icasualties.org

[Air Force Cane]

Violence in Iraq drops sharply: Ministry

Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:01pm EDT http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSCOL24813120071022?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

By Aseel Kami

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Violence in Iraq has dropped by 70 percent since the end of June, when U.S. forces completed their build-up of 30,000 extra troops to stabilize the war-torn country, the Interior Ministry said on Monday. The ministry released the new figures as bomb blasts in Baghdad and the northern city of Mosul killed five people and six gunmen died in clashes with police in the holy Shi'ite city of Kerbala south of the Iraqi capital. Washington began dispatching reinforcements to Iraq in February to try to buy Iraq's feuding political leaders time to reach a political accommodation to end violence between majority Shi'ites and minority Sunni Arabs that has killed tens of thousands and forced millions from their homes. While the leaders have failed to agree on key laws aimed at reconciling the country's warring sects, the troop buildup has succeeded in quelling violence.

Under the plan, U.S. troops left their large bases and set up combat outposts in neighborhoods while launching a series of summer offensives against Sunni Islamist al Qaeda, other Sunni Arab militants and Shi'ite militias in the Baghdad beltway. Interior Ministry spokesman Major-General Abdul-Karim Khalaf told reporters that there had been a 70 percent decrease in violence countrywide in the three months from July to September over the previous quarter.

GRADUAL IMPROVEMENT In Baghdad, considered the epicenter of the violence because of its mix of Shi'ites and Sunni Arabs, car bombs had decreased by 67 percent and roadside bombs by 40 percent, he said. There had also been a 28 percent decline in the number of bodies found dumped in the capital's streets. In Anbar, a former insurgent hotbed where Sunni Arab tribes have joined U.S. forces against al Qaeda, there has been an 82 percent drop in violent deaths. "These figures show a gradual improvement in controlling the security situation," Khalaf said. However, in the northern province of Nineveh, where many al Qaeda and other Sunni Arab militants fled to escape the crackdown in Baghdad and surrounding region, there had been a 129 percent rise in car bombings and a corresponding 114 percent increase in the number of people killed in violence. While the figures confirm U.S. data showing a positive trend in combating al Qaeda bombers, there is growing instability in southern Iraq, where rival Shi'ite factions are fighting for political dominance. Police said six gunmen were killed in police raids in Kerbala, 110 km (70 miles) southwest of Baghdad. Some 50 people were killed in Kerbala in August in fierce clashes between fighters loyal to Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and local police, who are seen as aligned to the rival Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council's armed wing, the Badr Organization. After the clashes, Sadr said he was imposing a six-month freeze on the activities of the Mehdi Army, increasingly seen as beyond his control, so that he could reorganize it. In Baghdad, three roadside bombs killed four people, including three policemen, while in Mosul one policeman was killed when a blast hit a police patrol.

[JMS]

Lies, Dammed lies, and Statistics.

• Violence in Iraq dropped by 20% Apirl 2003 over March 2003.
  
• Violence in Iraq dropped in August 2003 over July 2004.
  
• American casualties in Iraq dropped by more than 100% Nov 2003, over December 2003.
  

The telling statisic is casualties are up in 2007 not down.

The telling statistics are that casualties over the last five complete months

are up in 2007 not down.

On a hopeful note casualites were slightly lower in Sept 2007 (65) from Sept 2006(72) and significantly down in October of 2007 (30 vs 106) so far this month.

It's not a five month trend of dropping casualites as your article falsely claims.

[JMS]

Lies, Dammed lies, and Statistics.

• Violence in Iraq dropped by 20% Apirl 2003 over March 2003.
  
• Violence in Iraq dropped in August 2003 over July 2004.
  
• American casualties in Iraq dropped by more than 100% Nov 2003, over December 2003.
  

The telling statisic is casualties are up in 2007 not down.

The telling statistics are that casualties over the last five complete months

are up in 2007 not down.

On a hopeful note casualites were slightly lower in Sept 2007 (65) from Sept 2006(72) and significantly down in October of 2007 (30 vs 106) so far this month.

It's not a five month trend of dropping casualites as your article falsely claims.

[The_cavalierman]

The problem with AFC's argument is that he is complaining about a war that has already been won.

It is the occupation that the US has royally bumbled...

1. Diplomacy - The US has completely failed in Iraq to comeup with anything resembling progress. Condeleeza Rice is worthless and all of our allies are scaling down their participation.

2. Infastructure - Shabby work, bad contractors and a complete mishandling of American tax payer money.The Iraqis still only get electricity 2 hours a day after 5 years of so called rebuilding. Their is still 9 Billion dollars of American Tax payer money unaccounted for in Iraq.

3. Security - After 5 years it takes a surge in US presence to ensure any security in Iraq. Even with the surge the insurgents and death squads simply move to areas where the Surge is not located to do damage.

One of the most basic rules of warfare is whatever you take by force you must maintain by force. The American tax payer does not want to continue to finance a bumbled occupation that has not shown much of anything in the form of tangible results. Especially when our troops are being killed everyday.

The surge is just a pathetic attempt by the neocons to abstract some positives out of a massively failed occupation effort. The troops have done the best they could under the circumstances but the fact is piss poor decision making from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is to blame.

[The_cavalierman]

The problem with AFC's argument is that he is complaining about a war that has already been won.

It is the occupation that the US has royally bumbled...

1. Diplomacy - The US has completely failed in Iraq to comeup with anything resembling progress. Condeleeza Rice is worthless and all of our allies are scaling down their participation.

2. Infastructure - Shabby work, bad contractors and a complete mishandling of American tax payer money.The Iraqis still only get electricity 2 hours a day after 5 years of so called rebuilding. Their is still 9 Billion dollars of American Tax payer money unaccounted for in Iraq.

3. Security - After 5 years it takes a surge in US presence to ensure any security in Iraq. Even with the surge the insurgents and death squads simply move to areas where the Surge is not located to do damage.

One of the most basic rules of warfare is whatever you take by force you must maintain by force. The American tax payer does not want to continue to finance a bumbled occupation that has not shown much of anything in the form of tangible results. Especially when our troops are being killed everyday.

The surge is just a pathetic attempt by the neocons to abstract some positives out of a massively failed occupation effort. The troops have done the best they could under the circumstances but the fact is piss poor decision making from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave is to blame.

[Loxley]

Dont you ever ask yourselves why they are even there in the first place. Or why/how are Iraq and Al Qaeda even relevant. I just think that everybody (all the coalition troops) that are there right now are in harms way for no real purpose. Every person who dies is a waste of another life.

I agreed completely with the removal of the person in power at the time but it really makes you wonder seeing the complete **** up that has been made since then. Going into a military environment with no real idea as to what to do after the "war" has been "won" is just unbelievable to me but that is what happened. I pray for the return home safely of all the people who have been posted out to Iraq and all the ones who will not return home but I have to say I think that anyone who is still in favour of this whole sorry affair is either stupid or blind or both.

[Loxley]

Dont you ever ask yourselves why they are even there in the first place. Or why/how are Iraq and Al Qaeda even relevant. I just think that everybody (all the coalition troops) that are there right now are in harms way for no real purpose. Every person who dies is a waste of another life.

I agreed completely with the removal of the person in power at the time but it really makes you wonder seeing the complete **** up that has been made since then. Going into a military environment with no real idea as to what to do after the "war" has been "won" is just unbelievable to me but that is what happened. I pray for the return home safely of all the people who have been posted out to Iraq and all the ones who will not return home but I have to say I think that anyone who is still in favour of this whole sorry affair is either stupid or blind or both.

[The_cavalierman]

The surge is a limited tactical success in the overall strategic war on terror

Without Diplomacy, massive infastructure improvement and enough security to allow Iraqi citizens to start believing in the rule of law and participating in the rebuilding process the surge will amount to a fart in a hurricane.

General Patreus has been begging for diplomatic as well as infastructure help to no avail. An Army Military Police Captain in Iraq right now said it best when he described the surge "as turning on the lights and watching roaches scatter. You did not kill/stop the roaches....you just sent them scurrying away from you".

Unfortunately for the pro-surge folks the operation did not include a surge in diplomacy or infastructure improvements which is the real key to rebuilding a strong and independent Iraq. Our continued presence in Iraq is damaging the overall strategic war on terror.

[The_cavalierman]

The surge is a limited tactical success in the overall strategic war on terror

Without Diplomacy, massive infastructure improvement and enough security to allow Iraqi citizens to start believing in the rule of law and participating in the rebuilding process the surge will amount to a fart in a hurricane.

General Patreus has been begging for diplomatic as well as infastructure help to no avail. An Army Military Police Captain in Iraq right now said it best when he described the surge "as turning on the lights and watching roaches scatter. You did not kill/stop the roaches....you just sent them scurrying away from you".

Unfortunately for the pro-surge folks the operation did not include a surge in diplomacy or infastructure improvements which is the real key to rebuilding a strong and independent Iraq. Our continued presence in Iraq is damaging the overall strategic war on terror.

[Air Force Cane]

Iraq: Violence-related deaths drop ‘remarkably’, say authorities and United Nations http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/RMOI-787MNA?OpenDocument

[This report does not necessarily reflect the views of the United Nations]

BAGHDAD, 21 October 2007 (IRIN) - Iraqis are breathing a sigh of relief as violence in their war-torn country is ebbing and the number of violence-related victims has dropped sharply since the beginning of this year, according to statistics compiled by the country’s interior, defence and health ministries. "Violence-related deaths in September dropped remarkably to levels not seen in more than a year as the number [of violence-related deaths] stood at 290 while in September 2006 the number was about 1,400," Adel Muhsin, the health ministry's inspector-general, told IRIN in a phone interview. According to the ministry’s statistics, between January and the end of September 2007, the number of violent deaths involving civilian, police and military in all of Iraq was about 7,100, against 27,000 in the same period of 2006. According to Muhsin, the average number of dead bodies sent to Baghdad’s main morgue just over a year ago was between 100 and 150 a day. Now, it is no more than 10 bodies a day, and about 50 percent of them are dying in normal circumstances. There have been days this year when no dead bodies were sent to the morgue and this gave the morgue employees a chance to refurbish it, something they couldn't do in the past. "There have been days this year when no dead bodies were sent to the morgue and this gave the morgue employees a chance to refurbish it, something they couldn't do in the past," Muhsin added. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon recently said that September witnessed the lowest number of Iraqi casualties in any month this year. He added that there had been a decease in violence in general due to a cessation of attacks by the Mahdi Army, led by Shia religious leader Muqtada al-Sadr, who in August ordered a temporary freeze of his followers' activities, including attacks on US troops. As a result, Ban said he had strengthened the UN team in Iraq by increasing staff in Baghdad and Erbil from 65 to 85 and was considering the establishment of a small UN presence in Basra.

US troops on patrol in Sadr City, Baghdad

Some time after Operation Imposing Law was launched by US and Iraqi forces on 14 February this year, the number of those thought to be victims of Shia death squads began dropping dramatically in Baghdad, and there has also been a lull in violent attacks by Sunni insurgents. "But that doesn't mean that their attacks have ended, but they have been reduced and have become less effective as we have managed to arrest their senior leaders and disband many vital cells," a senior police officer said on condition of anonymity as he fears reprisals. "And as a result of that, the number of car bomb attacks has been reduced from between eight and 15 a day to one and three and sometimes none. The same is true of roadside bomb attacks and assassinations," he added.

Some return to normalcy

Naji Mohammed Adel (not his real name), 22, has reopened his music store in eastern Baghdad nearly two years after al-Sadr followers went to his shop and left a threatening letter asking him to shut it down because it contravened their perception of Islamic law. Now I can open my store for about six to eight hours a day and clients are showing up every day to buy the latest music. "Now I can open my store for about six to eight hours a day and clients are showing up every day to buy the latest music," said Adel from Mashtal, which, like other parts of eastern Baghdad, was controlled by the Mahdi Army. W.N., a 33-year-old female hairdresser who has a salon in a western neighbourhood of the capital, is now serving clients again after extremists had previously threatened to "have her head chopped off" if she stayed in this “sinful” business. "Clients are trickling in but not like before," she said." We are open for about three to five hours during the day as there is a nearby Iraqi army check point.”

Deadly business

Taxi driver Ahmed Khalil Baqir used to station himself outside Baghdad's main morgue, waiting for grieving families who went there to claim their relatives’ dead bodies. "I was totally dependent on them for my living," Baqir, a 44-year-old father of four, said." I never thought about picking up people in the street as I was being hired five to eight times a day by these families. But now it is a waste of time to wait there and these days I wait only for about three hours in the morning and I continue my work picking up passengers in the street.”

[Air Force Cane]

Iraq: Violence-related deaths drop ‘remarkably’, say authorities and United Nations http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/RMOI-787MNA?OpenDocument

[This report does not necessarily reflect the views of the United Nations]

BAGHDAD, 21 October 2007 (IRIN) - Iraqis are breathing a sigh of relief as violence in their war-torn country is ebbing and the number of violence-related victims has dropped sharply since the beginning of this year, according to statistics compiled by the country’s interior, defence and health ministries. "Violence-related deaths in September dropped remarkably to levels not seen in more than a year as the number [of violence-related deaths] stood at 290 while in September 2006 the number was about 1,400," Adel Muhsin, the health ministry's inspector-general, told IRIN in a phone interview. According to the ministry’s statistics, between January and the end of September 2007, the number of violent deaths involving civilian, police and military in all of Iraq was about 7,100, against 27,000 in the same period of 2006. According to Muhsin, the average number of dead bodies sent to Baghdad’s main morgue just over a year ago was between 100 and 150 a day. Now, it is no more than 10 bodies a day, and about 50 percent of them are dying in normal circumstances. There have been days this year when no dead bodies were sent to the morgue and this gave the morgue employees a chance to refurbish it, something they couldn't do in the past. "There have been days this year when no dead bodies were sent to the morgue and this gave the morgue employees a chance to refurbish it, something they couldn't do in the past," Muhsin added. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon recently said that September witnessed the lowest number of Iraqi casualties in any month this year. He added that there had been a decease in violence in general due to a cessation of attacks by the Mahdi Army, led by Shia religious leader Muqtada al-Sadr, who in August ordered a temporary freeze of his followers' activities, including attacks on US troops. As a result, Ban said he had strengthened the UN team in Iraq by increasing staff in Baghdad and Erbil from 65 to 85 and was considering the establishment of a small UN presence in Basra.

US troops on patrol in Sadr City, Baghdad

Some time after Operation Imposing Law was launched by US and Iraqi forces on 14 February this year, the number of those thought to be victims of Shia death squads began dropping dramatically in Baghdad, and there has also been a lull in violent attacks by Sunni insurgents. "But that doesn't mean that their attacks have ended, but they have been reduced and have become less effective as we have managed to arrest their senior leaders and disband many vital cells," a senior police officer said on condition of anonymity as he fears reprisals. "And as a result of that, the number of car bomb attacks has been reduced from between eight and 15 a day to one and three and sometimes none. The same is true of roadside bomb attacks and assassinations," he added.

Some return to normalcy

Naji Mohammed Adel (not his real name), 22, has reopened his music store in eastern Baghdad nearly two years after al-Sadr followers went to his shop and left a threatening letter asking him to shut it down because it contravened their perception of Islamic law. Now I can open my store for about six to eight hours a day and clients are showing up every day to buy the latest music. "Now I can open my store for about six to eight hours a day and clients are showing up every day to buy the latest music," said Adel from Mashtal, which, like other parts of eastern Baghdad, was controlled by the Mahdi Army. W.N., a 33-year-old female hairdresser who has a salon in a western neighbourhood of the capital, is now serving clients again after extremists had previously threatened to "have her head chopped off" if she stayed in this “sinful” business. "Clients are trickling in but not like before," she said." We are open for about three to five hours during the day as there is a nearby Iraqi army check point.”

Deadly business

Taxi driver Ahmed Khalil Baqir used to station himself outside Baghdad's main morgue, waiting for grieving families who went there to claim their relatives’ dead bodies. "I was totally dependent on them for my living," Baqir, a 44-year-old father of four, said." I never thought about picking up people in the street as I was being hired five to eight times a day by these families. But now it is a waste of time to wait there and these days I wait only for about three hours in the morning and I continue my work picking up passengers in the street.”

[Predicto]

If the surge is working, great. I admit I was doubtful about the strategy when it was proposed, but I am always hopeful that things will work out for the US and I am willing to admit it if I was wrong.

Also, this message from Bin Laden sounds a bit like desperation.

I'm still not forgiving Bush and Co. for getting us into the middle of this sh*tstorm, even if things are getting better now. The original decision was still one of the stupidest moves of the last century, and that should not be forgotten.

plus - The Iraqis need to quit jerking around, make their government, divide up the oil money, and start acting like grownups.

[Predicto]

If the surge is working, great. I admit I was doubtful about the strategy when it was proposed, but I am always hopeful that things will work out for the US and I am willing to admit it if I was wrong.

Also, this message from Bin Laden sounds a bit like desperation.

I'm still not forgiving Bush and Co. for getting us into the middle of this sh*tstorm, even if things are getting better now. The original decision was still one of the stupidest moves of the last century, and that should not be forgotten.

plus - The Iraqis need to quit jerking around, make their government, divide up the oil money, and start acting like grownups.

[The_cavalierman]

If the surge is working, great. I admit I was doubtful about the strategy when it was proposed, but I am always hopeful that things will work out for the US and I am willing to admit it if I was wrong.

Also, this message from Bin Laden sounds a bit like desperation.

I'm still not forgiving Bush and Co. for getting us into the middle of this sh*tstorm, even if things are getting better now. The original decision was still one of the stupidest moves of the last century, and that should not be forgotten.

plus - The Iraqis need to quit jerking around, make their government, divide up the oil money, and start acting like grownups.

Correction ---

The surge is working only were the surge is located. The insurgents simply move away from the "surged" areas and still create plenty of mayhem and havoc.

The only people declaring victory with the surge are republican politicians and those sitting back here that have never been to Iraq. The people doing the fighting know that the surge is at best a temporary fix. General Patreus would be the first to tell you that the next phase of the surge requires diplomatic and insfastructure progress which simply ain't happening. Condeleeza Rice is pathetic and the contracting situation in Iraq is so blundered that after 5 years in Iraq the average Iraqi still only gets 2 hours of electricity per day.

Just imagine if an American company had 5 years to fix your electricity and you were only getting power 2 hours a day? For the money the American tax payer is spending in Iraq it is certainly not wrong to expect a greater return or your investment.

The funny thing that the conservatives keep over-looking is we should have never needed a surge after 5 years in Iraq if Bush made better decisions. The fact is if Bush adopted the plan of the Clinton CJCS who called for 300,000 man force to secure the entire country from day one then Iraq would look much different today. With 300,000 troops Iraq would have no insurgents and the Iraqi police force would be trained and functional by now.

Instead of adopting the right plan...Bush fired the Clinton appointed CJCS and proceded to make the largest military gaffe in the history of the US. Military historians (who are not liberals) at West Point, The Army War College and the Center for Military History are openly debating if he is the worst Commander in Chief ever.

[The_cavalierman]

If the surge is working, great. I admit I was doubtful about the strategy when it was proposed, but I am always hopeful that things will work out for the US and I am willing to admit it if I was wrong.

Also, this message from Bin Laden sounds a bit like desperation.

I'm still not forgiving Bush and Co. for getting us into the middle of this sh*tstorm, even if things are getting better now. The original decision was still one of the stupidest moves of the last century, and that should not be forgotten.

plus - The Iraqis need to quit jerking around, make their government, divide up the oil money, and start acting like grownups.

Correction ---

The surge is working only were the surge is located. The insurgents simply move away from the "surged" areas and still create plenty of mayhem and havoc.

The only people declaring victory with the surge are republican politicians and those sitting back here that have never been to Iraq. The people doing the fighting know that the surge is at best a temporary fix. General Patreus would be the first to tell you that the next phase of the surge requires diplomatic and insfastructure progress which simply ain't happening. Condeleeza Rice is pathetic and the contracting situation in Iraq is so blundered that after 5 years in Iraq the average Iraqi still only gets 2 hours of electricity per day.

Just imagine if an American company had 5 years to fix your electricity and you were only getting power 2 hours a day? For the money the American tax payer is spending in Iraq it is certainly not wrong to expect a greater return or your investment.

The funny thing that the conservatives keep over-looking is we should have never needed a surge after 5 years in Iraq if Bush made better decisions. The fact is if Bush adopted the plan of the Clinton CJCS who called for 300,000 man force to secure the entire country from day one then Iraq would look much different today. With 300,000 troops Iraq would have no insurgents and the Iraqi police force would be trained and functional by now.

Instead of adopting the right plan...Bush fired the Clinton appointed CJCS and proceded to make the largest military gaffe in the history of the US. Military historians (who are not liberals) at West Point, The Army War College and the Center for Military History are openly debating if he is the worst Commander in Chief ever.

[jbooma]

AQ is getting real desperate in Iraq. Since the Iraqi Sunni's turned against them, its been lights out

After seeing all of the horrible things AQI did to Iraqi's, the show is over for them in terms of support

Bingo

It looks like Bin Laden is getting desperate, trying to get the pakistani's to fight each other and now others unite

this could be the beginning of the end of the influence bin laden has

[jbooma]

AQ is getting real desperate in Iraq. Since the Iraqi Sunni's turned against them, its been lights out

After seeing all of the horrible things AQI did to Iraqi's, the show is over for them in terms of support

Bingo

It looks like Bin Laden is getting desperate, trying to get the pakistani's to fight each other and now others unite

this could be the beginning of the end of the influence bin laden has

[The_cavalierman]

Bingo :cheers:

It looks like Bin Laden is getting desperate, trying to get the pakistani's to fight each other and now others unite

this could be the beginning of the end of the influence bin laden has

He we go again....

Everyone knows what happens when the Republicans start saying the enemy is in their last throes or mission accomplished

[The_cavalierman]

Bingo :cheers:

It looks like Bin Laden is getting desperate, trying to get the pakistani's to fight each other and now others unite

this could be the beginning of the end of the influence bin laden has

He we go again....

Everyone knows what happens when the Republicans start saying the enemy is in their last throes or mission accomplished