Fans During Gibbs First Tenure vs. Fans During Gibbs Second Tenure

[Jimbo]

The WINNING George Allen years weren't too far in the past when Joe Gibbs replaced Jack Pardee in 1981. Pardee was fired because he couldn't get us to the playoffs, although he came awful close in 1979. Pardee, the coach, was fairly popular because he was a former player who helped lead the Skins to Super Bowl VII.

In 1981, after Gibbs started the season at 0-5, many fans were calling for Joe's head, including yours truly. The team finished 8-8 and the complaints about Joe died down to a dull roar. The Skins reached the Super Bowl the very next year and failed to reach the playoffs just three times, in 1985, 1988, 1989 (despite a 10-6 record) during the rest of Gibbs' first tenure here.

There are certainly differences, generationally and perhaps culturally, between the Gibbs I and Gibbs II generation. I wonder how us older guys would have reacted during Gibbs I with this much media coverage and access to something as wonderful, wild and wacky as Extremeskins.

Most of us who remember Gibbs I expected the same kind of record with Gibbs II. The fans who were around dring Gibbs I aren't really all that different in their expectations from the fans who have only known Gibbs II. While us older guys might be a tad more patient when it comes to calling for his head, I think the majority of us are on the same page when it comes to losing.

I was teased into thinking this team might finally be turning the corner after the first two games, although I was quietly optimistic. I was pretty sure we were going to be 3-0 before really seeing what we're made of with some tough games coming up after the bye week. I even expected to be 4-0 after Detroit. Now I'm not sure we'll be 3-1. After the way we lost to the Giants, it all came flooding back. All the reasons we've only made two playoff appearances since 1992. I'm frustrated like most of you and now I'm not so sure Joe can turn this team into one that can make the playoffs, much less win a playoff game. Playoff teams don't lose when they are up 17-3 at halftime. You have to beat the teams you're supposed to beat. It's that simple. BOTH generations of Gibbsians know this much.

As for RFK being louder than FedEx, I can't make that comparison since I've never seen a regular season game at FedEx, only preseason. I do know the players seemed closer to the field at RFK and the top of RFK Stadium seemed to hold sound in. No doubt about it, the place was LOUD! You have 90,000 people at FedEx and, even though there is no lip to hold the noise in and you have way too may opposing fans, it's STILL 90,000 people. I'm pretty certain they are not as in tune to what they SHOULD be doing as we were at RFK but it still should get plenty loud when it needs to be. Winning will very likely cure those shortcomings.

[dinkymark67]

It's hard to compare fans then and now. The fact is back in the 80s [as some have pointed out] there wasn't an internet so we didn't know what every Tom, Dick, and Harry Redskin fan thought, just our friends and what was written in the paper. Maybe there was sports radio then but I didn't listen to it. I suspect if RFK was louder it was because 1) it had a partial roof that helped hold sound in and/or 2) There was more to cheer about. Plus you could make RFK shake, I don't think Fed-Ex would do that. Based on a purely stadium vs. stadium comparison Fed-Ex is definately better, but it's hard not to be nostalgic about the great wins at RFK. I'm not happy with the way Gibbs II has gone so far but I like and respect him a lot.

[dinkymark67]

This club still has a bunch of hired mercensaries. The talent level's a little better but they have to win. I've watched this team lose games the last 3 years the same way Norv and Spurrier lost them. A Gibbs I coached team wouldn't of lost a home game leading by 14 pts at halftime.

actually the 1983 Redskins lost the opening game at home on MNF after leading 23-3 at the half. Of course that was against the SB contender Dallas Cowboys and not the 0-2 Giants...

[Phixius]

Gibbs II hasn't been here for 15 years

You dont get it

[PCS]

I think it's a good thing the internet wasn't around back in Coach Gibbs first tenure as the Redskins coach. There were times back then, well, let's just say that I remember some talks at the bar that weren't all that friendly towards Joe.

[jaxskinsville]

I think it's a good thing the internet wasn't around back in Coach Gibbs first tenure as the Redskins coach. There were times back then, well, let's just say that I remember some talks at the bar that weren't all that friendly towards Joe.

I agree. I know that I didn't feel quilty (as I do now) for calling for his head.

15 years of forgettable play seems to make us sympathetic to the guy who gave us so much glory before.

[bulldog]

so, here is the question:

Are the Redskins the team that finished 10-6 in 2005 and have started 2-1 in 2007, or are they the team that went 5-11 in 2006 with a rash of injuries?

Not too many teams that were in the playoffs in 2005 and started out 2-1 in 2007 would be this scrutinized and doubted by its own fans.

Now, no one puts the Redskins among the elite teams and wouldn't have even if they had protected the lead and ended up 3-0.

At the same time this club has not started like the Rams (0-3), Saints (0-3) or even Bears (1-2) and Eagles (1-2).

[SkinsFTW]

actually the 1983 Redskins lost the opening game at home on MNF after leading 23-3 at the half. Of course that was against the SB contender Dallas Cowboys and not the 0-2 Giants...

After that they won 16 of 17 and then lost the Super Bowl. I doubt this team will do anything even close to that. :doh:

[RFKFedEx]

I've been very lucky to have attended apx. 60 games at RFK b/t 1982-96. I've also attended apx. games in Landover since 1997, and about 15 road games over the past 15 years. Here's what I notice.

NFL merchandising wasn't nearly as popular in the RFK days, so even if opposing fans were present, you wouldn't have noticed them as easily as you do today when half of the fans are jersey clad, etc.

Also, as other posters have stated, there was no Ebay or Craigslist for out of town fans of the opposition to obtain tickets like they can today. With only 55,000 seats, it was tough for in town Redskins fans to get in if they didn't have season tix. One could buy from scalpers in the Wash Post or you could buy from scalpers outside of RFK, but that was about it.

You couldn't walk up to a hustler outside of RFK and buy upper level seats at half of face value like you can at FedEx today for almost any game.

Even when the Redskins we're winning late in 2005, tickets were easy to get at face value. That never happened at RFK in my lifetime.

I'm not one to see the past through rose colored glasses. The NFL is much better today.

The gameday experience is better overall now, regardless of the outcome on the field.

The gameday experience may be better at almost every other NFL venue than it is here, but I always have fun tailgating in Raljon.

[CM916]

I'd love to see what this board would have looked like in 1981.

"Who the hell is Joe Gibbs?"

"I wanted us to hire this other coach."

"Theismann sucks."

"Riggins is just the Jets' garbage."

And my personal favorite:

"0-5?! 0-5?!?! I'm done with this team!"

:laugh:

[stwasm]

I've been very lucky to have attended apx. 60 games at RFK b/t 1982-96. I've also attended apx. games in Landover since 1997, and about 15 road games over the past 15 years. Here's what I notice.

NFL merchandising wasn't nearly as popular in the RFK days, so even if opposing fans were present, you wouldn't have noticed them as easily as you do today when half of the fans are jersey clad, etc.

Also, as other posters have stated, there was no Ebay or Craigslist for out of town fans of the opposition to obtain tickets like they can today. With only 55,000 seats, it was tough for in town Redskins fans to get in if they didn't have season tix. One could buy from scalpers in the Wash Post or you could buy from scalpers outside of RFK, but that was about it.

You couldn't walk up to a hustler outside of RFK and buy upper level seats at half of face value like you can at FedEx today for almost any game.

Even when the Redskins we're winning late in 2005, tickets were easy to get at face value. That never happened at RFK in my lifetime.

I'm not one to see the past through rose colored glasses. The NFL is much better today.

The gameday experience is better overall now, regardless of the outcome on the field.

The gameday experience may be better at almost every other NFL venue than it is here, but I always have fun tailgating in Raljon.

Excellent points -- except for your last sentence. The Skins play in LANDOVER! That spot stopped being Raljon after Mr. Cooke passed. That's my hometown there and I REFUSE to call it the r-word! It's Landover!

[RFKFedEx]

Excellent points -- except for your last sentence. The Skins play in LANDOVER! That spot stopped being Raljon after Mr. Cooke passed. That's my hometown there and I REFUSE to call it the r-word! It's Landover!

Sometimes I call it Landover, FedEx, The Danny, The Cooker, or whatever other nicknames we've concocted through the years.

I don't think many people other than Mr. Cooke himself ever recognized that plot of land as Raljon, I just think that name is funny.

Can't imagine any post office ever showed such a location on their maps.

It's kind of funny how FedEx Field has a Hyattsville address, yet it appears to be in Landover, far from downtown Hville.

I wonder where the Wilson Farm's street address was?

:2cents:

[50yrSKINSfan]

This is what I think. Im 20 years old and I havent seen the 'Skins win ever, basicly. Doug WIlliams won the SB when I was 1 and Rypied when I was 4. I didnt become a full fledged fan till about right before Gibbs came back. So what the young fans are going through is that they only really know losing. For us, 2005 was like the superbowl or something. So after a while, you kinda get used to it and thus more condusive to trashing the team because its what we've been seeing since as long as we've been following the Redskins. It's hard to defend consistent losing.

As opposed to the confident bunch of fans that were there for Gibbs I.

I will say this though, I am as loyal as ever. And when they do win someday, it will be the greatest day of my life

I have been a Redskin fan since the 50's and you would not believe how BAD most of the teams they had back then were. I am gonna guess and say I saw 10 straight years of loosing football when I was growing up. Then a miracle happened. We got Lombardi. I was so happy that finally we would have a winning program. Typical Redskin luck. Lombardi gets sick and dies. One season and he brought us to 9-5 I think. Then 5 more loosing years and another great coach shows up, George Allen. 7 years of winning football for a change but never the big one. Then Gibbs and it was great. Then back to 10 years of loosing and then Gibbs again. Give it a chance and it will work out. Go Skins.

[RFKFedEx]

I have been a Redskin fan since the 50's and you would not believe how BAD most of the teams they had back then were. I am gonna guess and say I saw 10 straight years of loosing football when I was growing up. Then a miracle happened. We got Lombardi. I was so happy that finally we would have a winning program. Typical Redskin luck. Lombardi gets sick and dies. One season and he brought us to 9-5 I think. Then 5 more loosing years and another great coach shows up, George Allen. 7 years of winning football for a change but never the big one. Then Gibbs and it was great. Then back to 10 years of loosing and then Gibbs again. Give it a chance and it will work out. Go Skins.

Ya man, I grew up w/my dad and grandfather telling me how lucky I was to be living through the winning years of the 80s.

My dad had to grow up watching the all white Redskins at Griffith Stadium in the 50s. Man how those days must have sucked!

My Grandfather got to enjoy the glory of the early championships of the 1940s, but he then had to weather the 40 year famine to taste the championship glory once again.

Hope I'm not waiting that long!

[Mark The Homer]

There's 32 teams in the league.

On average:

A team should win the SB once in 32 years.

A team should win an NFC Championship once in 16 years.

A team should win a divisional playoff game once in 8 years.

The Redskins have not won a divisional playoff game in 15 years and counting. I'd say either we're overdue for something to happen, or something is fundamentally wrong with the organization.

[jayl1985]

I can remember Super Bowl VII and the loss to the Dolphins, so I go back. Not as far as my dad with his Sammy Baugh stories, but back.

I think I really have to give young fans credit for being better and more loyal because, when have they seen the team actually be good? It's been a disapointing team most years since 1992, and if you don't see success early and often it's easy to loose interest and start cheering for another team.

I have seen the good and know what to hope for. They only have faith.

Yea younger fans! :applause:

Thanks alot!!! The only really good memory I have of the skins is the third super bowl when I was 5 years old, and I do remember some of the plays from way back then. That is when I became a diehard skins fan. The older fans had winning seasons throughout the first tenure. What I have to look back on is richie pettibone, norv turner, marty, and spurrier and 1 playoff appearance. Through all of that I'm still a hardcore fan, and I hope gibbs can rekindle some of the magic from the first go round.

[cozmikbuffalo]

The difference is that modern era fans in the Gibbs experience are "super smart" and realize that we are losing games because of coaching strategies that take the players virtually out of controlling the outcome by simply playing the game. I think it is as much a frustration to see a coach they admire and love do things he wouldn't have thought of doing before and watching every offseason while they are promised next year will be better and then it isn't.

One thing for sure the fans of today generally are more beligerent, violent and inconsiderate of others. Maybe somehow they think that because the players make such god awful amounts of money they can vent their frustrations on all the rest of us.

Oh and don't forget "Free agency" really got into high gear in 87'. Not too much stability for teams to develope talent anymore and no real loyalty except in a fewer cases. You will never see a team like the Steelers of the 70's or Dallas for that matter. Those teams kept their players and it wasn't uncommon for players to play for one team their whole career.

Fans of today guess it's OK to act extreme just like their showboat heroes with no regard to their fellow fans similar to those showboats that disregard their teammates contributions to their own success's.

[Peregrine]

You talk about the fans being different between his first and second tenures, but you dont talk about the product on the field... Gibbs was nowhere near this bad his first time around.

Its one thing to have players playing to the best of their abilities, and falling short because of a well played game on the other side. Its yet another very frustrating and miserable experience to have a team so full of talent, so capable fall short because of a horribly played game that is mostly the fault of the coach. You cant compare Gibbs 1st and second tenures until Gibbs is able to put a winning team on the field. If this doesnt happen this season, that means in 4 years only once have we had a winning team once(and that was the result of CP and the Defense lighting it up in a 6 game miracle).

What foundation have we laid? We HAVE all the talent now, and they are all capable of making the playoffs. I firmly believe if Gibbs would let them, this team would make the playoffs. But hes too set in his ways, and unfortunately he still lacks confidence in his players(hes said this is a team that isnt capable of blowing anyone out. Im sorry, but thats bull, look at what the Eagles did last week). Since when is loosing a foundation?

And yes, RFK was a lot louder. RFK was smaller, and the stands sat closer to the field. Try yelling out into open space and you get what you expect. Now try yelling into an enclosed area. The tighter the enclosure the louder it is, the more echo you get. Thats why RFK was so loud. When you open up the space for more seats, unless they litterally go straight up, its going to loose some of the sound.

[Toe Jam]

Does anyone know what the view from Section 441, Row 21 is like?

That's where I'm probably going to end up for my first Redskins game and so I was curious.

[cozmikbuffalo]

I can remember Super Bowl VII and the loss to the Dolphins, so I go back. Not as far as my dad with his Sammy Baugh stories, but back.

I think I really have to give young fans credit for being better and more loyal because, when have they seen the team actually be good? It's been a disapointing team most years since 1992, and if you don't see success early and often it's easy to loose interest and start cheering for another team.

I have seen the good and know what to hope for. They only have faith.

Yea younger fans! :applause:

Now that's one incredible memory!!! How old where you then 2-3??

[Toe Jam]

That's a good point- I don't even remember the 92' season so I've loved this team since they've been full of suckage.

I must be crazy.

[master4caster]

Are the fans different? I think they are more openly profane now. At FedEx there is this cheer "HEY, you s***." I think that reflects the times more than anything.

As for Redskins fans Gibbs I vs Gibbs II, consider that Gibbs and the Redskins in the '80s gave us a lot more to cheer for. Back then, we had a better owner who had a better front office that gave Gibbs better talent to work with.

Those '80s Redskins were resilient, meaning they had real depth on the team. If a starter was injured, there was a good player who was already on the team ready to step in. How confident are you about the wide receiver corps if Santana Moss goes down? When Art Monk was injured, those old Redskins had Clark, Sanders and the Smurfs to turn to. Those teams produced for us. No Redskins team in Gibbs II has been the equal in talent to those teams.

RFK had accoustic properties that redirected sound on the field. 90000 people are much louder that 55000, but the sound evaporates in space. If FedEx had those overhangs like RFK, more or the crown noise would reverberate around the field.

RFK was a smaller stadium with only two levels (not counting the mezzinine where old Jack ruled), everybody was closer to the field and everybody was more intimate with the team. It was also too small to accomodate demand. That's why tickets were hard to get. You had to pay scalpers $100 over face value.

RFK was a better fan experience by far, and contributes to the memory of "better fans." Unfortunately (for fans), it is obsolete as a NFL venue. Too small, not enough premium seating, not enough luxury boxes. Those things help teams raise the revenue needed to pay to salaries of players who can make them competitive. FedEx Field is the main reason the Washington Redskins are one of the world's most valueable sports franchises.

The good thing about FedEx is that it accomodates so many more passionate fans who support the team.

Fans cheering for the offense? I take that to mean the last play of the Giants game. By now, someone has pointed out to our young QB that he can hush crowd noise with a gesture.

The difference isn't the fans, its the product on the field.