Turnover - Is this normal?

[Farbod21]

I have kept an excel spreadsheet of the redskins depth chart since 2003. I was looking at it the other day when I realized that we only have 7 players from the 2003 opening roster. of the 7, one is the LS (albright), 3 are OL (Thomas, Samuels, Jansen), 2 are RBs (Betts and Rock), and Fred Smoot is back for his 2nd tour of duty. Is this amount of turnover in 4 years normal compared to other teams?

BTW - I am not complaining, after looking over this roster Im suprised we won a game. Jeez.... Our starting defensive line was Wynn, Lional Dalton, Jermaine Haley, and Regan Upshaw... Haha, and we think our D-Line is bad now??

[illone]

BTW - I am not complaining, after looking over this roster Im suprised we won a game. Jeez.... Our starting defensive line was Wynn, Lional Dalton, Jermaine Haley, and Regan Upshaw... Haha, and we think our D-Line is bad now??

That's funny and sad at the same time, :laugh:

Blast from the past.

[tcb26]

Usually your bad teams dont have much money to spend, The Danny has found a way to work around that..I love the squad but this is the reality we live in...

This year looks ok so far...we'll see..cant wait for the 9th

Protect the qb!

[RenegadeTK]

on the plus side.... everyone we do still have is a beast... maybe minus rock

[Oldfan]

Is this amount of turnover in 4 years normal compared to other teams?

If you can find the average career length for an NFL player, you can compute the average turnover. I'd guess that ours has been higher than the average.

[DaveP666]

Wow, that old D-line sounded bad on paper when you look back. But we will see how this 2007 version works. Its gonna be an interesting season to say the least.

[ciacbw]

I think the biggest reason for turnover was Gibbs coming back. whenever there is a coaching change there is usually a lot of turnover

[Tastes Like Chicken]

It would make sense to me that we'd have higher than average turnover, since we build more through FA than the draft than the average team. Teams that draft players who turn out to be studs typically do not let them go.

[Henry]

New coaches generally create turnover. And Gibbs has always turned his roster over more than most coaches.

[PigSkins]

Gibbs himself says the NFL changes 30% every year. He mentioned roster turnover part of his 30% theory. So, yeah. I bet you could spreadsheet every roster in the NFL over a 4 year span and get pretty much the same turnover ratio. That includes the Pats and Colts. This is mostly due to Free Agency. Rookies sign for 3-4 years then either get resigned for big money (with new or current team) or get cut and replaced.

30% of the roster is about 16 players. This year, all 8 of the Cowboys draft picks made the team, thats 15%. I cannot verify if they swapped another 8 players or not, but Im sure they probably came close to it.

[scruffylookin]

I think others have hit it.

We had a change in coaches.

Usually after that first year the new coach will weed out players.

I think the better comparison would be 2005 vs. 2007.

By year 2 Gibbs should have had the roster he was more comfortable with.

So looking at 05 we still have the following players:

QB

Campbell

Brunell

RB

Portis

Betts

Cartwright

WR

Moss

Thrash

TE

Cooley

Sellers

OL

Samuels

Jansen

Rabach

Thomas

Albright

DL

Griffin

Daniels

Evans

Boschetti

LB

Washington

Campbell

DB

Springs

Taylor

Rogers

Prioleau

ST

Frost

So that's 25 players out of the 52 currently on the roster were with the team in 2005. 11 were starters back then and are starters now.

That is a pretty high turnover in only 2 years, especially when you consider what we thought we were getting when Gibbs returned was stability since that is what we were lacking. While our coaching has been stable, the roster has seen massive overhaul. I'm afraid to say that this certainly shows that Gibbs and company have been more concerned with building a team to win in the short term and not long term (something that I thought he wanted to do-build up a strong franchise like his race team-to keep winning after he left).

Instead we have a team who will need to totally overhaul the offensive line in the very near future as we have a starting line of players all over the age of 30 and key backups also over the age of 30.

So, just as Jason Campbell should be coming into his own in 08 or 09 his offensive line will be crumbling. Sounds like a plan. :doh:

[TSO]

^^ Step 1:

Stephon Heyer.

Don't worry. We'll be fine there.

We are definitely one of the best, if not the best team in the NFL in regards to turnover. Just take a look at that 2005 roster and tell me we aren't. It's obvious the first year under Gibbs shouldn't really count since he inherited so many players from Spurrier and his offense that failed in the NFL.

[dfos81]

I have kept an excel spreadsheet of the redskins depth chart since 2003. I was looking at it the other day when I realized that we only have 7 players from the 2003 opening roster. of the 7, one is the LS (albright), 3 are OL (Thomas, Samuels, Jansen), 2 are RBs (Betts and Rock), and Fred Smoot is back for his 2nd tour of duty. Is this amount of turnover in 4 years normal compared to other teams?

BTW - I am not complaining, after looking over this roster Im suprised we won a game. Jeez.... Our starting defensive line was Wynn, Lional Dalton, Jermaine Haley, and Regan Upshaw... Haha, and we think our D-Line is bad now??

Looks like Gibbs has really put his stamp on this team and brought in a whole new crop of young and old talent. Lets see what this turnover in players will bring us.

[elkabong82]

I think the biggest reason for turnover was Gibbs coming back. whenever there is a coaching change there is usually a lot of turnover

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Johnny, tell him what he's won.......

2003 Spurrier team was awful, Gibbs took over in 2004 and had to rebuild the team essentially. I can't find it, but if anyone can get the 2004 roster, and compare the turnover between then and now, that would be more viable as that span has the same head coach throughout.

[Blondie]

on the plus side.... everyone we do still have is a beast... maybe minus rock

Yeah.......special teams player of the year.

He aint ****.

[Wyvern]

One contributing factor is that many of our lower round draft choices haven't stuck (Wilson, Molinaro, White, McCune, Newberry, Broughton, Sartz, Lefotu, Simon, Palmer, Ecker, and that's just the Gibbs era's drafts) This has resulted in the Redskins having to rely heavily on free-agents to replace the aging players, and that is an iffy proposition on whether they fit either. The price of the free-agent contracts create pressure against the cap, and we are hard-pressed to retain all our own home-grown free-agents -- resulting in more turnover.

Another issue is that Gibbs has probably had to balance the approach of a rebuilding program with the needs of the owner to make sure the Redksins field a "marketable" team NOW. It's hard to do both -- especially in the era of salary caps and rampant free-agency.

IMO, it's starting to look like we're on the right track. Strangely enough we are fielding a fairly competitive team in 2007, with more youth than before, and for once we have most of our future draft choices still intact. With the exception of the DE position, and the questions at WR (we still need a big WR, and not all these smurfs) we're in a decent position. No doubt we are now going to start slowly rebuilding the O-line next, but we;ve still got time to do this while being competitive year-in and year-out.

[ThomasTomasz]

Coaching change is a part of it, especially when you look at how bad the Spurrier roster was, all of it. God, I just want to forget he ever coached us, but it's damn near impossible when he screwed this team up so much.

Another part of it is the draft. Unlike other teams, we don't have those draft picks to fill out our depth. In fact, lets name the guys on this team that we have drafted ourselves and see what we come up with.....

QB- Jason Campbell

RB- Ladell Betts, Rock Cartwright

TE- Chris Cooley

OL- Jon Jansen, Chris Samuels

DL- Kedric Golston, Anthony Montgomery, Ryan Boschetti (UDFA)

LB- Rocky McIntosh, HB Blades

CB- Carlos Rogers

S- Sean Taylor, LaRon Landry, Reed Doughty

I didn't include a guy like Smoot, who left and then came back a few seasons later, because they didn't stay with the team.

Anyway, that is 15 players of a 53 man roster. That isn't over a two year period, where most teams will have their picks stay, but since 2002, we've only had 13 stick with us (Samuels and Jansen were a few years back.) We've failed at the draft in some years (like this past, with only two picks staying on) and sometimes, we just don't even have the picks and don't really bother with it.

That is the other side of the issue, and is completely independant of coaching turnover. With the exception of the 2006 draft with Golston and Montgomery, both of whom will get serious playing time, the Redskins have bombed on the second day of the draft, where you sign those depth guys.