Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 If all 32 teams were dead even in talent and coaching, the natural odds against any particular team winning the Super Bowl would be 31 to 1. All 32 teams aren't dead even in those respects, but they aren't very far from it. On the field, the NFL is a copycat league for coaches. If a coach is having success with a little variation in scheme, it won't be long before every team in the league has it in their playbooks. Off the field, the NFL has made rules designed to achieve equality on the rosters of 32 teams. Together, these factors make it very difficult for teams to break away from the mediocre pack. Sound, innovative ideas are needed to rise above mediocrity. On the field, I think offenses in the pro game will eventually follow the trend in college football. We'll see QBs in the shotgun rather than under center. Shotgun spreads don't require huge, athletic linemen -- a rare breed. Shotgun schemes utilize players with different talents than those selected to play today's pro game. The first pro team to go to a shotgun as its base offense will have a wide selection of college players overlooked as prospects by the other 31 teams -- players trained in running it. Some pro teams are selecting QBs who have never been under center in college. I'd like to see the Redskins as the first team to make the switch. Then, constant innovation on the scheme would allow us to keep an edge for a while. But, while Joe Gibbs has shown the courage to innovate in the past, he was the last of the holdouts against using the shotgun. It isn't likely he will do a complete turnaround, so I don't look for it to happen here in the near future. I'm not a masochist. I hope for the best, but I don't like to let my expectations get unrealistically high. That only sets me up for bitter disappointment. I'm braced for Redskin mediocrity, 7-9 or 9-7, for the next few years at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANDWARF Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Dude it was our first preseason game. Chill, everything will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTerps26 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 good for u sir. My question to you would be... Why even bother watching/caring about the Redskins? Even if the skins had lost 80% of its starters from the year before I would still cheer the team on to win every single game. I'm always confused as to why any fan would choose to be a "realist" and predict failure for this team? How is that at all entertaining? Isn't part of watching football to entertain, and hope that ur team is the last standing? Remember 31/32 teams fail every year. The fun is rooting for your team to be the one that makes it. Thats it. Best to Enjoy the games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Saunders at least for the most part seems to be running the offense -- he's a guy not exactly thought of as vanilla and basic -- he's considered one of the most innovative offensive minds in football, Gregg is considered likewise in terms of running the defense. The defense looked fantastic on Sat. The offense foundered becuase the line was terrible and we couldn't get a running game to set up the pass -- now replacing a rookie OT with an All Pro one, should help. Replacing our #3 and #4 string backs with arguably the best RB tandem in the NFL should help, too. To me the only question is can Wade hack it at OG, can someone step up and be a decent #2 receiver? Everything else I expect to fall into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 That's a gimmick offense. Might work for half a season, or maybe even a whole one. The argument can be made that Gibbs will never make this team any good, but I wouldn't base that arguement on the fact that we don't run a scheme noone has ever run in the NFL before with any amount of sustained success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Dude it was our first preseason game. Chill, everything will be ok. You don't need to bother reading posts to make comments like this, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark The Homer Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Dude it was our first preseason game. Chill, everything will be ok.If I had a nickel for every time I heard a phrase like this, I'd be living on the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 That's a gimmick offense. Might work for half a season, or maybe even a whole one. The argument can be made that Gibbs will never make this team any good, but I wouldn't base that arguement on the fact that we don't run a scheme noone has ever run in the NFL before with any amount of sustained success. Maybe for a half a season or maybe a whole one, darn that would stink :cool: Yeah somehow Saunders by some fluke has been fooling them for years with KC and the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 good for u sir. My question to you would be... Why even bother watching/caring about the Redskins? Even if the skins had lost 80% of its starters from the year before I would still cheer the team on to win every single game. I'm always confused as to why any fan would choose to be a "realist" and predict failure for this team? How is that at all entertaining? Isn't part of watching football to entertain, and hope that ur team is the last standing? Remember 31/32 teams fail every year. The fun is rooting for your team to be the one that makes it. Thats it. Best to Enjoy the games If living in a fantasy world is your idea of entertainment, I'm happy for you. You know what they say, "different strokes for different folks." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Maybe for a half a season or maybe a whole one, darn that would stink :cool: Yeah somehow Saunders by some fluke has been fooling them for years with KC and the Rams. KC and the Rams run the shotgun as their base offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Saunders at least for the most part seems to be running the offense -- he's a guy not exactly thought of as vanilla and basic -- he's considered one of the most innovative offensive minds in football, Gregg is considered likewise in terms of running the defense.The defense looked fantastic on Sat. The offense foundered becuase the line was terrible and we couldn't get a running game to set up the pass -- now replacing a rookie OT with an All Pro one, should help. Replacing our #3 and #4 string backs with arguably the best RB tandem in the NFL should help, too. To me the only question is can Wade hack it at OG, can someone step up and be a decent #2 receiver? Everything else I expect to fall into place. "Innovative" is a relative term. All the systems that begin with the QB under center have basic elements that defenses have seen for more than 70 years. My post wasn't prompted by anything I saw on the field last Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 That's a gimmick offense. Might work for half a season, or maybe even a whole one. The argument can be made that Gibbs will never make this team any good, but I wouldn't base that arguement on the fact that we don't run a scheme noone has ever run in the NFL before with any amount of sustained success. That "gimmick offense" has taken over the college game. Traditional powerhouses like Ohio State and Nebraska have converted after having their butts kicked by smaller schools. Now, if you can give me a reason why it wouldn't work in the pro game, you can change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 That "gimmick offense" has taken over the college game. Traditional powerhouses like Ohio State and Nebraska have converted after having their butts kicked by smaller schools.Now, if you can give me a reason why it wouldn't work in the pro game, you can change my mind. The college game is much different than the pro game, where the talent level is much, much higher. I wouldn't use effectiveness in college as proof that something will work in the pros. What you are suggesting reminds me of the run-and-shoot, which worked for a little while until it got figured out and now noone runs it anymore. Who knows? Maybe it would work. But I think being critical of a coach because he's not running a scheme that you've personally thought up, that noone in the pros currently runs or has ever run, is a bit heavy-handed. I can think of quite a few reasons to be critical of Gibbs. Not running an offense I've dreamed up in my head isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 If I had a nickel for every time I heard a phrase like this, I'd be living on the beach. If I had a penny for every Susy Downer over the last few days, I'd have one right next to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I feel the same oldfan, if we go anything better then 7-9 it will be a successful season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 Henry -- The college game is much different than the pro game, where the talent level is much, much higher. I wouldn't use effectiveness in college as proof that something will work in the pros. The success of the formation at the college level isn't proof that it will work in the pros, it is evidence that it's worth trying at the pro level if a team seeks a competitive edge. What you are suggesting reminds me of the run-and-shoot, which worked for a little while until it got figured out and now noone runs it anymore. I've heard that before. I also heard for years that you can't run from the shotgun. Nobody says that anymore since coaches started doing it. Who knows? Maybe it would work. But I think being critical of a coach because he's not running a scheme that you've personally thought up, that noone in the pros currently runs or has ever run, is a bit heavy-handed. I can think of quite a few reasons to be critical of Gibbs. Not running an offense I've dreamed up in my head isn't one of them. Your argument is a straw man. I didn't dream up the offense. I'm looking at the evidence of its success at the college level and projecting it to the pro level. A few teams who use the shotgun more than others, New England, Pittsburgh, and Indianapolis, have made Super Bowl appearances in recent years. Of course, that could be just coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldysknzfn1 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I used to have this same outlook on the season. If you don't have too high an expectation..then the fall isn't so far thus not so painful. I also didn't enjoy the season as much feeling this way either. I'm not a big fan of the shotgun offense. It works for some teams...not so good for others. I've never thought of the Redskins as a shotgun team. I think a large amount of schemes can be winners IF the team EXECUTES them on any scale. Last season we had problems executing any thing offensively that could get us going. The few games that we did, we won(the New Orleans game for one). I'll admit I'm not the "brain" type fan meaning that I don't analyze and pick apart each & every component of our offense or defense. I don't know the names of the plays most of the time so maybe I'm not qualified to even address this topic. But I'm learning from this site and I will pay more attention to detail this season. Should be interesting for me. I guess I just wanted to say that I used to expect mediocrity from this team every season of the last 12 or so years and this season I'm trying a different approach. My biggest concern from what I saw on Sat. nite was that O-line and it's failure to protect our QBs. Somebody was missing their "man" on that left side and it didn't happen just once..it happened over and over and over. I'm hoping the great minds that we have will fix this post haste or we're in for another long season. I'm hoping we'll go 10-6 at least, if all things come together 11-5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 look on the bright side Old...if the pass blocking continues to suffer....JG will have no option but to employ the shotgun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revallenjr Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 A lot of things factor into whether a team goes to the Superbowl. Let me just name a few: Talent Coaching Schedule Luck Injuries I don't think anybody would question the ability of our coaches. Talent wise, we have playmakers on both sides of the ball. Our schedule is always going to be tough, because of the NFC East. Football is a game of inches, and sometimes the ball does not bounce your way. Last year injuries killed us. There are many things that go into winning a football game, and I think we have as good of a chance as any other team in the league. That is why they play the game. With our coaches and talent, with a few bounces, and staying away from injuries, it is very possible this team wins 10-12 games. Obviously if someone gets injured (Samuels, Portis, Springs, Taylor, Cooley) things could get ugly quick. But either way I'll be going crazy for my Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbodiesel#44 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 The whole point of moving to Saunders was to convert to a modern, progressive offense. Gibbs recognized his own shortcomings in this area and made a drastic correction. History has indicated it takes until the second year for Al's scheme to catch on. That is now. I'm willing to wait and give it a shot this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 You know, OldFan, one of the reasons Gibbs brought in Saunders was to get more innovative, right? Personally, execution is much more important than scheme. Fact is, if you can't execute the scheme, it doesn't matter how innovative it is. The Colts are successful because their execution is impeccable. Also, changing schemes always has a cost, as we saw last year. Fact is, Saunders' scheme has been very successful in the past. Certainly, there is always room for new ideas, and any o-coordinator will look to see how such things can fit into their scheme. But, just changing schemes for the sake of changing schemes is never the answer. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 I guess I just wanted to say that I used to expect mediocrity from this team every season of the last 12 or so years and this season I'm trying a different approach. My biggest concern from what I saw on Sat. nite was that O-line and it's failure to protect our QBs. Somebody was missing their "man" on that left side and it didn't happen just once..it happened over and over and over. I'm hoping the great minds that we have will fix this post haste or we're in for another long season. I'm hoping we'll go 10-6 at least, if all things come together 11-5. I try to keep hopes separated from expectations. In a short 16 game season, luck plays a huge factor, so predictions as low as 5-11 or as high as 11-5 could come to pass depending on how the breaks fall. But, the huge factor this year is how well Campbell can run the Saunders offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANDWARF Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 If I had a penny for every Susy Downer over the last few days, I'd have one right next to you. THANK YOU!!!! THESE GUYS ACK LIKE WE LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 look on the bright side Old...if the pass blocking continues to suffer....JG will have no option but to employ the shotgun! I wish that was true, f62, but his first option is what we saw Saturday. Cooley stays in to block limiting the pass game and forcing us to run the rock more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschwarting Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 good for u sir. My question to you would be... Why even bother watching/caring about the Redskins? Even if the skins had lost 80% of its starters from the year before I would still cheer the team on to win every single game. I'm always confused as to why any fan would choose to be a "realist" and predict failure for this team? How is that at all entertaining? Isn't part of watching football to entertain, and hope that ur team is the last standing? Remember 31/32 teams fail every year. The fun is rooting for your team to be the one that makes it. Thats it. Best to Enjoy the games I rarely say this on a thread but...well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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