fansince62 Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 whle ecstatic about the victory...I have some thoughts of caution. the boys are still a team on the rise. their O-line was beat up yesterday with a lot of starters missing. they, like us, have good young players and are rebuilding. the key for me is their QB situation. will they draft a young hot-shot next year and have that matter settled for the next 10 years? ort do they go for no 22's replacement? i loved the V, but still see the Boys as a team on the rise that will have another chance to draft/restock with quality young players this off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Actually, I disagree. As MRMADD said in a previous thread, in their present state, they are completely pathetic. Do remember that while they have guys like Bryant and Williams on the rise, they must soon replace cornerstones like Woodson, Smith, and Allen who all seem to be on the decline. Next year will likely be another rebuilding year for them, so I dont anticipate any great things from them until 2004 at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEastNCFan Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Yeah the Cowboys are a rebuilding team, but are they no unlike the skins. We both have our deficiancies at certain position. I must say though, that I think we have less holes to fill than the boys. A couple of solid o-line players, an addition or two on the d-line, and a safety will make a world of difference for this team. Oh yeah, and a punter. I'd give it a few years, but I believe that the NFC East will once again become the dominate division in football. Note of interest: I just read that the tightend for the Boys (Tony Mcgee, I think) just took the record for the most games by a player to not have a playoff appearance. He pasted Archie Manning for the record yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Al, I couldn't disagree more. I think you are falling into the syndrome Spurrier talked about where we give the Cowboys more credit for being good than they merit. They are not a team on the rise. Who were they really missing on the offensive line that will be around? Larry Allen is closer to the end than the beginning. Adams was there and he'll likely be let go. Gurode and Walters are their future lineman. Where is their good young talent? Roy Williams is a player who had potential and demonstrated great ability on the field throughout the year. He's the only player presently in the Arrington, Smoot, Bailey, Trotter, Samuels, Jansen and Gardner mode for us, in that he's a young player who's living up to his potential. They have a couple of guys they have reason to hope for. But, so do we. As was mentioned during the game, the Redskins are set at corner and offensive tackle. The Cowboys aren't at either position. And, we seem to have a substantial advantage at QB. The Cowboys are a team in dramatic decline that needs a massive shake up. They need a guy like Parcells to come in and rebuild them because they lack talent and where Parcells is a great coach is getting lesser players to play well. He'd be a boon for them and a serious directional change. They will likely be replacing 30 plus players from this roster to the next. They are in store for a massive blow up and retuning. Parcells is a guy I'd hate to see in charge of that. But, that is what's coming for Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorEastNCFan Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Art, what do you think about the Bucs making claims over owning the rights to Parcells? Do they have a case? If they do, is Jerry Jones willing to give up picks or money to get the Tuna in Dallas? What good is landing a great coach, if you have to mortage the franchise's future to get him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I think the Bucs are just whistling Dixie. There's no way they win that claim. However, they MAY be able to slow it down long enough to force Parcells over to the AFC and Jacksonville . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted December 30, 2002 Author Share Posted December 30, 2002 ok already!!!....good points....guess I was whimsical in thinking that last year's cowboy draft (which was pretty good) would be matched this year and this would rebuild a struggling team that also had some good FA signings last year. ...no matter who the coach is I think the Boys are in the proverbial hurt locker until they find a quality QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 My understanding is that since the contract Parcells signed with TB was never approved by the League Office, it isn't a valid one. It may delay the hiring for a few days, but from all accounts I've heard TB doesn't have a leg to stand on. I think our best hope is that Jones doesn't want to give the Tuna control over personnel and operations, and Tuna gets an offer from Jacksonville he can't refuse. Parcells has shown a propensity to radically change course and surprise at the last minute. Come on Jags, make him that offer and do it now! I'd much rather face a Denny Green coached Boys team for the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victort Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 First, let me say that I’ve been a Cowboy fan since the Landry/George Allen days. Like many of you, I lived and died by a win or a loss. But through the years I’ve also learned the appreciate the game of football and to know when it’s being played right. I respected the greatness of Gibbs and actually miss the hogs and Riggins. From a football stand point, I hope Spurrier succeeds except for twice a year. I visit and read a lot of boards. I appreciate the objectiveness of most of the posts on this board. With that said, here’s my .02 on the Skins and Cowboys in no specific order. The Dallas Offensive line may have been the worst in the league. It would be a close fight between Dallas, Chicago and Houston. The inability to provide any consistent protection or running lanes is the number 1 reason for the offensive failure this year. Their poor play made the offense look worse than they should have been. If the Tuna arrives, going back to a man on man blocking scheme may make rebuilding the line an easier task. From a Redskins prospective, I was impressed by Gardner. He seemed to have come on strong towards the end of the season and was a dominant force. My biggest fear is that the skins will draft or acquire another stud DT to play along side him. Trotter may take a year to recover from his injury. I like the looks of Betts and Watson. They seem to be the prototypical Spurrier RB with the ability to catch the ball and run inside. Wish Dallas had either one sitting in the wing. I would like to see Dallas add a RB with big play ability. While I still feel Emmitt has at least another year or two of productivity, his inability to break the long one puts a lot more pressure on the offense. Still not sure if he’ll be back or not. Defensively, the Redskins appear to have all the bases covered. They have a shutdown corner in Champ. They have a pro bowl linebacker in Lavar and a pretty good DT in Gardener. Smoot, while not a shut down corner is a top 2nd tier CB. Another stud on the D line could move this unit up into the elite status. In the off season, Dallas must sure up the O line. We may have to keep Flozel out of necessity, but Page is definitely gone. I could easily see two different starters. Possibly 3. Draft wise, I would love to see a few offers for the #5 pick. Maybe Carolina at #8. I like McGahee but the DT from Penn State is probably the better pick at this point. I do not see Dallas going for a QB unless Manning comes out. The Skins picking at 13 will have a shot at a pretty good WR or O-Lineman. Maybe Spurrier leaned that running the football is the surest way to success in the NFL. A big dominant OL would look pretty good with the fun and gun offense. As for which team is closer to reaching it’s goal, that’s hard to say. The Skins definitely have more talent, but that talent hasn’t always translated into more wins. Assuming Dallas will change 30 players from their current roster is a bit on the high side as well. As bad as I think Dallas played, they were still 5-11 and probably would have won a couple of more games if Q would have stayed the starter. In this day in the NFL, it doesn’t take much to translate 5-11 into 11-5. Unfortunately Dallas hasn’t made the transition. 2004 looks like the earliest for a serious Dallas playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victort Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 First, let me say that I’ve been a Cowboy fan since the Landry/George Allen days. Like many of you, I lived and died by a win or a loss. But through the years I’ve also learned the appreciate the game of football and to know when it’s being played right. I respected the greatness of Gibbs and actually miss the hogs and Riggins. From a football stand point, I hope Spurrier succeeds except for twice a year. I visit and read a lot of boards. I appreciate the objectiveness of most of the posts on this board. With that said, here’s my .02 on the Skins and Cowboys in no specific order. The Dallas Offensive line may have been the worst in the league. It would be a close fight between Dallas, Chicago and Houston. The inability to provide any consistent protection or running lanes is the number 1 reason for the offensive failure this year. Their poor play made the offense look worse than they should have been. If the Tuna arrives, going back to a man on man blocking scheme may make rebuilding the line an easier task. From a Redskins prospective, I was impressed by Gardner. He seemed to have come on strong towards the end of the season and was a dominant force. My biggest fear is that the skins will draft or acquire another stud DT to play along side him. Trotter may take a year to recover from his injury. I like the looks of Betts and Watson. They seem to be the prototypical Spurrier RB with the ability to catch the ball and run inside. Wish Dallas had either one sitting in the wing. I would like to see Dallas add a RB with big play ability. While I still feel Emmitt has at least another year or two of productivity, his inability to break the long one puts a lot more pressure on the offense. Still not sure if he’ll be back or not. Defensively, the Redskins appear to have all the bases covered. They have a shutdown corner in Champ. They have a pro bowl linebacker in Lavar and a pretty good DT in Gardener. Smoot, while not a shut down corner is a top 2nd tier CB. Another stud on the D line could move this unit up into the elite status. In the off season, Dallas must sure up the O line. We may have to keep Flozel out of necessity, but Page is definitely gone. I could easily see two different starters. Possibly 3. Draft wise, I would love to see a few offers for the #5 pick. Maybe Carolina at #8. I like McGahee but the DT from Penn State is probably the better pick at this point. I do not see Dallas going for a QB unless Manning comes out. The Skins picking at 13 will have a shot at a pretty good WR or O-Lineman. Maybe Spurrier leaned that running the football is the surest way to success in the NFL. A big dominant OL would look pretty good with the fun and gun offense. As for which team is closer to reaching it’s goal, that’s hard to say. The Skins definitely have more talent, but that talent hasn’t always translated into more wins. Assuming Dallas will change 30 players from their current roster is a bit on the high side as well. As bad as I think Dallas played, they were still 5-11 and probably would have won a couple of more games if Q would have stayed the starter. In this day in the NFL, it doesn’t take much to translate 5-11 into 11-5. Unfortunately Dallas hasn’t made the transition. 2004 looks like the earliest for a serious Dallas playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Good post Victor. I would like to expand upon your final paragraph. The Redskins, admittedly, have greater talent. You wrote that then added that it hasn't always meant more wins. Since when? We've had more wins the last four years. That's about when we started having more talent, unless you believe Tre Johnson who dates that at 1995 . The reason I think you're in for a major roster blow up though is simple. You went through an offseason that if the Redskins did the same thing you did, I'd be thrilled. You retained your key free agents. You added nice pieces both in the draft and free agency. You had continuity and stability and you appeared to improve the overall level of talent. The Redskins had their second straight offseason of 30 plus player roster churn. You can't play as a team like that immediately and we haven't played like a team because of that. Dallas had stability. Now you have a new coach coming in. Not only will you have to deal with a new coach wanting to implement his system with his types of players, but, you have an attitude issue in Dallas. Dallas has many ties to the glory years. You tend to think of yourselves as champions despite being removed from that. Therefore it sometimes appears you enter games thinking you are better than you are and you get handled. A new coach has to focus the players on the fact that Dallas as an organization is a proud, successful one, but, that the existing players have done squat. He has to make them want to play up to the past, rather than thinking they are part of the past. You have 36 players under contract for next year right now. Of those, I think Carter, Ismail, Goodrich and Smith are certainly gone. I think it's likely Galloway, Vollers, Thomas, Lehr, and perhaps a few others will be released. On your roster today, I think the only players you are certain to have and want back for next year are Hutchinson, Martin, Bryant, Gurode, Walters, Glover, Hardy, Dat, Coakley, Woodson, Williams, Ross, Ellis, Ekuban and maybe Myers. Unless I miss my guess, you are going to identify a core of players based on work ethic, potential and production and start new with a new coach, new systems and new attitude. I'd be very surprised if you don't have 30 plus players churned from this year to the next. We've had that churn during coaching changes and we've had more talent to stick with in the first place. I'd be surprised if you got a new coach who stuck with the majority of the talent that has produced three 5-11 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Well just as you claim the Cowboys should have won a couple of more games due to bad play, I could say the same about the Skins. The first time we played the Giants, we were flat our robbed out of about 2-3 fumbles by tiki barber, that would have set us up inside Giants territory. First game against the cowboys on Thanksgiving this year, the cowboys were basically doing squat, and then Lavar gets called for roughing the QB which even Darrel Johnston says was ridiculous. It keeps the scoring drive alive. Without that score, the game is probobaly out of reach for the cowboys..... Anyways.....probobaly, EVERY team can point out a few games that they "should have won" but that is why the team that did win is most likely in the playoffs, or was fighting to get in, while the teams that lost those games are 7-9 or 5-11....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin56 Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 I wouldn't be so quick to discount Tampa's ability to get some compensation for the Tuna. He signed a contract, then, four days later he rescinded the contract. That may be why the league never approved it, because Parcells breached it. The term is anticipatory repudiation of contract. It is considered a breach. If Tampa did not sue Parcells for breach it may be because they declined to do so in return for a "promise" that they would retain the rights to hire Parcells in the future for the term of the contract. If this is indeed the case, they would be entitled to compensation for another team hiring him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 'anticipatory repudiation of contract'?? I think I ran into that a couple of times in high school! Regardless of what happens, turmoil in Dallas is nothing but good as far as I'm concerned. Parcells isn't God (although he might believe otherwise) and a coaching change will set them back for at least 1 year, maybe more. And having Johnny Cochran in the middle of it all, man, thats just beautiful (I can hear him now ...'If you don't sit down with my boy, you must employ')... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victort Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 Good points. As fans, we tend to look at the games we "should" have one and forget the games we should have lost. Dallas could have just as easily been 3-13 or worse. Just goes to show how much parity is in the NFL these days. As for roster turnover, the skins were a pounding running team trying to switch to a passing offense. Not sure about the defensive side. Dallas, while trying to run the west coast offense, is more geared for the pounding game. Where we may lose a lot of players is if Dallas decides to run the 3-4. I've always been parcial to the 4-3, so I hope that is not the case. Your roster list does have quite a few potential changes. But that is the way of the NFL. A core group of players and a bunch of fringe players. Jones is too proud to cut Galloway loose. Especially since he cost us two #1's. Lehr will be kept too. The last thing Jones wants to do is clean house. His ideal situation would be for the Tuna to come in, keep the base team intact, and cut those that need cutting. He doesn't want there to be any question on who turned the team around if/when that occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted December 30, 2002 Share Posted December 30, 2002 If his tenure with the Jets is any indication, Parcells is capable of turning a team around almost overnight. :puke: The Pukes do have some good talent, but as Victor said, their O-line has fallen apart, Emmitt's old, and they haven't had a decent QB. Campo is really paying for Jerrah's stupidity in betting on Quincy. Parcells knows QBs. He drafted Pennington, and I think Bledsoe, and dug up Testaverde when everyone thought he was toast. He knows RBs - look at Martin. He has an uncanny ability to fit in the missing pieces. The Jets were far far more of a joke than the Pokes are now - they were more like the Bungles are now. I don't want Parcells going to Dallas, but at least I know he'll walk out on them in a couple years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted December 31, 2002 Share Posted December 31, 2002 The Boys under Parcells with Draft QB Chris Simms in Round 2 (with pick # 36) - put that in the bank. Thats my prediction anyways.... My other prediction is that they will take Willis McGahee (if he comes out) or Larry Johnson (if he has a good workout) with the #5 pick.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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