Final Update to I'm an Idiot Thread

[Ghost of]

I really thought maybe I should NOT do this because, in essence, it contributes to the thing that is most becoming my enemy when it comes to dating.

I guess I should describe that problem first, then move into specifics. Throughout a dating situation or relationship, I hit these little moments (usually early on) where I begin to doubt or question what's happening. Not that I question someone's motives exactly but that 'something' happened that I have not been made aware of, be it an event or emotional development that changes the dynamic that previously existed.

The problem for me has been that these senses of impending romantic doom have so often ended up being correct, that my little episodes of anxiety get WORSE as they have been confirmed and my 'trust' in them fortified throughout my years of experience.

Contrary to the impression given by my screen name (or maybe directly in line with it) I find it exceedingly difficult to play games when it comes to romance. I'm just too honest. BUT what I can say is that I don't fawn over women, I am not weak, I am (initially) interesting, funny, charming, etc. It's not that I have problems meeting women when I put my mind to it or getting them into certain 'situations' if I want but that I hit these little moments (moreso when I LIKE someone) that make me paranoid.

Should I engage in the game-playing (not calling or not being available, etc) that people engage in to keep a person's interest? Should I just be me and be genuine or does that only work at the very beginning and once you're IN a relationship? How do I conquer these bouts of anxiety, which in some cases, would seemingly be brought upon by nothing (though usually it's something slight that IS different but may not itself be indicative of anything deeper.)

As I mentioned, any advice here would be more to get me through these 'early' stages because once I settle in, I don't really get these feelings unless something is OBVIOUSLY wrong and we're not talking about it.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

The only "game" I play is in reference to the phone call thing. Sometimes when my girlfriend will call, I tell her I have to call her back later without giving her a reason. When I call back, I wait for her to ask what I was doing before I tell her. Half the time she doesn't even ask. It let me know early on in our relationship that she didn't feel like she had to control my time. Kind of weird, I know, but it made me feel better.

*I don't believe in the "I'll call you tomorrow" and then not calling for 3 days bit. I think that's just being rude.*

So, there is some relationship advice from the 32-year-old single (not married) guy. :laugh:

.

[PleaseBlitz]

As far as "playing games" you kinda have to during that initial stage. Its just the rule of the game. As far as the anxiety thing, i cant help ya Ghost.

[Ghost of]

Unfortunately, I live in my head a bit and I do have a bit of emotional intelligence and definitely can sense changes in looks, body language, etc.

I try those techniques of thought-stopping or getting the mind on something else but it's not even that something 'bad' could have developed that bothers me, it's the uncertainty while I figure it out (or am told.) If I could just stop caring about the waiting or uncertainty, I'd be OK.

What's funny is that I don't have this same anxiety when it comes to other situations in life.

I AM an obsessive thinker, though, unfortunately and that doesn't help with these little episodes.

[jrockster21]

As far as "playing games" you kinda have to during that initial stage. Its just the rule of the game. As far as the anxiety thing, i cant help ya Ghost.

Naw, you don't have to play games.

[Koolblue13]

Don't dance if you don't want to. Sounds like your describing me a bit. I've definitly gotten bit more than once because of it as well. I'm kind of going through it now with my ex. I gotta dance and I won't. I just figure if it's gonna work it's because shes ready and truely cares about me, if it doesn't it'll hurt for a while, but thats part of the game.

It sounds like you know the answer already. Just stay true to you Pimpin.

[Chump Bailey]

Depends on the girl and both of your motivations. If I really like the person and the possiblity exists for a long, semi-long term relationship with them - I always, always try to be as genuine as my id, ego and libido allows.

It's very hard though because sometimes you're more inclined to act in an manner which may completely contradict what you feel to be is what you strive to embody when you're especially attracted to a person.

We all play roles on some level, but it's always a good idea to be yourself no matter the situation. Reality will set in sometime and if you really come to like the person, it will only serve to make things harder in the long run if both of you are not upfront from the beginning.

Relationships are hard for me because I have a deep distrust of the female persuasion. Too many times I have gotten the "you can basically **** me anytime you want cat-eyes" from every single one of my friend's girl-friends or wife for as long as I can remember.

With very few exceptions, the females I have come into contact with are extraordinarily wily and masters of manipulation from my experience...

[boofMcboof]

Games are sorta of a misnomer. They're basically tools to help you push the right buttons with a girl. Different girls respond to different things.

[edgun88]

Unfortunately, I live in my head a bit and I do have a bit of emotional intelligence and definitely can sense changes in looks, body language, etc.

I try those techniques of thought-stopping or getting the mind on something else but it's not even that something 'bad' could have developed that bothers me, it's the uncertainty while I figure it out (or am told.) If I could just stop caring about the waiting or uncertainty, I'd be OK.

What's funny is that I don't have this same anxiety when it comes to other situations in life.

I AM an obsessive thinker, though, unfortunately and that doesn't help with these little episodes.

Wow. You are defining exactly the way I am. I think way too much. So I can relate.

The way I have always resolved these stupid little situations that make me think that the relationship isnt going to work :breathe: ....is if I truly have a bad vibe about a girl, then I say screw it. Maybe just try to get some and then say "Peace out!". :laugh:

But seriously, You gotta be yourself. There isnt anything else you can be.You will meet chicks that give you bad vibes and you will meet chicks that you get along with perfectly. Its all chance.

If this one doesnt work, get another one. But always be yourself. Hope this hepls some.

[bschurm]

You know, if it were as easy as a simple game, then I think romance would be boring. There are no set rules for love. In my experience, if I am out there actively pursuing a long term, longstanding relationship, I usually end up with someone I like, I can hang out with for a while, but eventually tire of. Now this may have been my fear of commitment, or it just may have been that I was settling for something I really didn't want in the first place.

When I finally stopped actively searching, relaxed and took my time, I found the love of my life. I didn't have to impress her with who I thought she wanted me to be, but was able to be myself and she loved me in spite of it.

But then again if you are not looking for something serious, then go play the game.

[Ghost of]

Depends on the girl and both of your motivations. If I really like the person and the possiblity exists for a long, semi-long term relationship with them - I always, always try to be as genuine as my id, ego and libido allows.

Relationships are hard for me because I have a deep distrust of the female persuasion.

That's what I'm looking at right now, that I get too far ahead of myself. The way this girl has looked at me, laughed at my jokes, things we have in common (not just 'things' but disposition towards certain views,) and she just seems a good prospect to me.

It's hard because you're aware that women do have 'certain buttons' and I think I've been a master in this particular engagement up to a certain point. I basically have to see if she calls me tonight, I guess. That would either confirm or disprove my most recent anxiety.

But it's hard to reflect that something could be really good and fun and someone can seem even to cut themselves of from other options and then it can blow up for no apparent reason. Not saying it HAS or WILL but that's what I have to figure out.

Maybe I'll post tomorrow and say I feel like an idiot because nothing is wrong or was wrong.

I do try to be myself with girls and usually it works in the short term. :laugh:

[Guest RideorDieChic]

I think the word game -when speaking of relationship and love- is often used with a negative connotone. And with good reason. Many people have deceived aka gamed. But the game in courtship doesn't always have to be a bad thing.

The element of innitial ambiguity can be very productive by helping to maintain interest, etc. On the flip side, it can also be conterproductive by making partners mistrust one another. Is just the luck of the draw.

Dear, if you don't want to try your hand, don't. Just be you and do you, at the end of the day, that is all that matters.

[jbooma]

Should I engage in the game-playing (not calling or not being available, etc) that people engage in to keep a person's interest? Should I just be me and be genuine or does that only work at the very beginning and once you're IN a relationship? How do I conquer these bouts of anxiety, which in some cases, would seemingly be brought upon by nothing (though usually it's something slight that IS different but may not itself be indicative of anything deeper.)

As I mentioned, any advice here would be more to get me through these 'early' stages because once I settle in, I don't really get these feelings unless something is OBVIOUSLY wrong and we're not talking about it.

I guess it depends how much younger this other person is. For someone your age I would say games are not worth it, however if you are dealing with someone say 25 then you may have to play in it for a little bit. If it is a month or two later then it is time to rethink things.

[Koolblue13]

I think the work game -when speaking of relationship and love- is often used with a negative connetone. And with good reason. Many people have deceived aka gamed. But is not always a bad thing.

The element of innitial ambiguity can be very productive by helping to maintain interest, etc. On the flip side, it can also be conterproductive by making partners mistrust one another. Is just the luck of the draw.

Dear, if you don't want to try your hand, don't. Just be you and do you, at the end of the day, that is all that matters.

What the heck does a woman know about women?

[Guest RideorDieChic]

What the heck does a woman know about women?

More than men

[edgun88]

That's what I'm looking at right now, that I get too far ahead of myself. The way this girl has looked at me, laughed at my jokes, things we have in common (not just 'things' but disposition towards certain views,) and she just seems a good prospect to me.

Than try to kiss her. Then you will be able to know for sure.

[Shadowplay]

I can't believe a guy who calls himself McPimpin is asking a bunch of internet posters with no lives for help with his game.

[Ghost of]

shadow,

I think I even referenced that in my post

But like I said, it's about extending things with a girl I LIKE as opposed to just getting a date or fooling around with someone mediocre or for 'just now.' That and my friends have a unique way of saying things that I don't think are the answers Plus the written word helps me consider things more than hearing someone say, "uh yeah, just let loose dude." Or some such.

Edgun-I have kissed her, more than once a couple nights ago. But when I was trying to do a good parking job, I did kinda say, "presumptuous, perhaps" (about assuming I was invited in) and she said, "well you can come in but just for a little bit." Then I replied that I really only intended to walk her to her door. We talked for some time and she showed me photos, etc but we kiss we did. Then after one moment she said she had to go to bed. The way I took it at that moment was that she didnt want to get too hot and bothered (I've gotten a distinct impression of propriety and restraint from her.)

Like I said, maybe it's nothing. I'm hoping she's not detective enough to track me down here.

[edgun88]

shadow,

I think I even referenced that in my post

But like I said, it's about extending things with a girl I LIKE as opposed to just getting a date or fooling around with someone mediocre or for 'just now.' That and my friends have a unique way of saying things that I don't think are the answers Plus the written word helps me consider things more than hearing someone say, "uh yeah, just let loose dude." Or some such.

Edgun-I have kissed her, more than once a couple nights ago. But when I was trying to do a good parking job, I did kinda say, "presumptuous, perhaps" (about assuming I was invited in) and she said, "well you can come in but just for a little bit." Then I replied that I really only intended to walk her to her door. We talked for some time and she showed me photos, etc but we kiss we did. Then after one moment she said she had to go to bed. The way I took it at that moment was that she didnt want to get too hot and bothered (I've gotten a distinct impression of propriety and restraint from her.)

Like I said, maybe it's nothing. I'm hoping she's not detective enough to track me down here.

Well there you go. Thats a good sign. The more you are with her the better you will understand what your relationship is going to become. Just be persistent, because if you aren't, she will take it as that you arent really interested.

haha It's probably hard taking advice form a 19 year old kid , but I've been in similar situations.

Let us know how it goes.

[Ghost of]

Oh, so she apparently called at some point tonight (I worked late) and asked me to call back.

So, perhaps (not 100 percent sure) I should put this thread in the "full of it/dead wrong" one that SkinsHokieFan had.

[DoGood28]

I HATE games. Why say one thing when you mean another? Most girls do nothing BUT play games.

You're not alone Ghost, and I suggest we both take the high road and boycott dumb ass games altogether. It sure as hell beats the alternative of being a stupid tease.

We'll be better for it.

[PleaseBlitz]

I HATE games. Why say one thing when you mean another? Most girls do nothing BUT play games.

You're not alone Ghost, and I suggest we both take the high road and boycott dumb ass games altogether. It sure as hell beats the alternative of being a stupid tease.

We'll be better for it.

This is because most guys arent GOOD at it.

You will know you have become good at playing games when you think to yourself "I cant believe im doing this" right before you pull some ****.

When i was in college i was kinda/sorta seeing this girl off and on for like seriously 3 months. Nothing serious, we hung out a lot but i hadnt even kissed her since the night we met. I felt i was approaching The Friend Zone. :ahhhhh:

Anyways, she was from NoVa to, so i guess she was planning on hanging out (and not :hump:ing) for all of Thanksgiving break too. She talked about doing this and doing that :blahblah:. I didnt say anything one way or the other.

So instead of going home for that week, :idea: i joined my buddies from new england and spent the week trying to drink all the beer in Boston. :chug:

I owned her after that.

[Ghost of]

Yeah, maybe I should do the whole 'not available' thing. I just got the rundown of how much stuff she has to do this weekend and that she'll call me and see what I'm up to this weekend. Perhaps even a "well not tonight but tomorrow works for me" kinda deal? It's kinda stupid but things felt just slightly imbalanced. Then again, the fact that she did call back when she got home and had left me a message earlier means that I am as big an idiot as I thought and I'm on my way to ruining something that was just fine! WAY TO GO, IDIOT! :laugh:

A word of warning to anyone with the same problem--the 'come down' of relief from that little bout of anxiety really throws you off and the negativity does carry over in nearly imperceptible ways. Really strange, maybe it's my OWN way of backing off and I just don't realize it. That's something that occurred to me today because it happens even when there's no real reason.

[Kosher Ham]

Game is key. If you have no game, you get no play.

Whether you are looking for a serious relationship or just a fling.

It's not an option, it's mandatory.

The key to women is listening. It's really that simple. Listen, acknowledge, respond.

Unavailable is a wonderful technique. You can gauge interest based on that. And you can also set the expectation. Unless you want to be locked in the house for the rest of your relationship you need to establish this early on. My wife is completely cool with me hanging out with the guys, has met and hung out with all of my friends. I told her early on I am going to hang out with my friends form time to time without you, it's a guy's thing and feel free to hang out with the girls when you so choose to.

She respects that, and I enjoy having a chance to hang out with the fellas whether for poker, a game, basketball or whatever. To me personal space is one of the most important things in a relationship. You give her the space she needs, and she will give you the space that you need.

Jealousy is wasted energy. If this is the type of girl you are interested in than you will either have to convince her that its useless, or spend every moment at her beckon call.

[Mr. S]

unfortunately, game is necessary. However, the amount of game needed varies on location. How many people here met their wife/significant gf in a club? I guess I'll get a slightly different opinion being a football forum than if I went to a forum called yuppies.com or something (not sure if that exists, just an example).

Point is, I kinda doubt most people meet their wives/fiance's in a dance club or even a regular bar or crowded college party. I think wonders can be said to meeting in the grocery store or through church or a volunteer group or a sports league or something like that, even small quiet parties where more talking is done than screaming. In those situations, less game is needed, girls are not in uber-guard mode, and both sides tend to be more relaxed and "themselves" anyways.

That's my view at least. Obviously internal changes are needed for as to what you want, something I've realized and working on. However, I think I'm gonna start looking into taking some dance classes (nice girl/guy ratio), joining more volunteer groups, interest clubs, etc....