Who would you rather owned the Redskins?

[Jino]

P A U L A L L E N !!!!!

[Smoot Point Really]

You're still not addressing anything. We're not even arguing, because I don't even think that you disagree with me. It's really, REALLY simple:

1) Snyder likes the Redskins as a team.

2) Snyder likes money more than he likes the Redskins.

I don't care about what he makes with any other project. All that I'm saying is that if Snyder had a choice between making money and doing what's right for the Redskins, then he would choose the former.

We definitely disagree... I believe Daniel Snyder does not treat the Redskins like he would any other investment (like Six Flags, for instance). I'm speculating, but I also do not believe that Mr. Snyder would've done the same deal for another NFL franchise.

You have cannot defend your idea without accounting for the lost opportunity costs, and I haven't heard anyone do that yet.

[Smoot Point Really]

Actually, if not Dan Snyder... I'll take Mark Cuban, but I wish he lived in DC...

[NewCliche21]

We definitely disagree... I believe Daniel Snyder does not treat the Redskins like he would any other investment (like Six Flags, for instance). I'm speculating, but I also do not believe that Mr. Snyder would've done the same deal for another NFL franchise.

You have cannot defend your idea without accounting for the lost opportunity costs, and I haven't heard anyone do that yet.

Are you stuck in park or something in the old brain case?

I don't care, at all, about Snyder's past ventures. They are irrelevant to this "discussion."

He likes the Redskins, but he tries to make as much money out of them as possible. The money > The team. I don't see how you could possibly disagree.

The sky is blue. Wanna argue with me about that, too?

[Dick Edds]

I would rather have Dan Snyder as an owner than any other current owner in the league ... except maybe Bob Kraft as of recently ...

We've been through some tough times in the past, but we made it through them and I believe we will be holding a Lombardy trophy in the near future., under the Snyder regime. My $.02.

[NewCliche21]

I would rather have Dan Snyder as an owner than any other current owner in the league ... except maybe Bob Kraft as of recently ...

We've been through some tough times in the past, but we made it through them and I believe we will be holding a Lombardy trophy in the near future., under the Snyder regime. My $.02.

What? When did we make it through them? We've been total crap for a decade and a half. Two playoff appearances in fifteen years, the latest year being 5-11, is not exactly what I'd call "making it through them."

[ttr77]

Those who argue Daniel Snyder is all about the money ignore the fact that he could be making more money doing something he has more expertise in. You have to at least prove that he actually makes more money as the principal owner of the Washington Redskins (not the sole-owner, mind you) than he did with Snyder Communications... It also should be noted that he started that communications company from scratch, whereas he came into the Redskins already having at least $300M. Basically, these ESers are not addressing the "opportunity cost" that it takes to raise $800M in debt/investment and apply that to an NFL franchise and stadium when you could've done something else with that money that might've made a lot more. Also, the franchise "value" (which is 1.4B according to Forbes) only matters if Snyder is interested in selling, which he doesn't appear to be.

Once again, you are bringing up profits and franchise worth. Who the hell cares? I can't say that he is only in it for the money, and you can't say that he isn't. HE is the only one that truly knows.

I'm sure he could make more doing something else, but he certainly ain't starving doing this. And he is among some of the most elite businessmen in the world as an NFL franchise owner. That alone is enough to entice someone to choose this venture.

My point is that when pointing to any good that he has done, most people bring up profit margins, as if this is a publicly traded company and we are all stockholders.

Please, once again, show me some tangible evidence that he has made some good on-field improvements and I'll reconsider my position. Bringing back Gibbs and hiring this coaching staff are nice, but they have still not improved their placement in the standings. That's pretty much ALL that matters in the end, isn't it?

[BillyKilmer]

Jerry Richardson

Panthers owner

Classy guy

and a winner

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i like snyder, i just think he goes about things the wrong way. he has the potential to be the best owner in football, but the way he operates hurts the team. if he were to hire a real GM and someone who could ACTUALLY scout talent unlike vinny, we'd get somewhere. imagine it, a guy who can scout talent and an owner willing to pay for anybody. thats a combo i can handle.

right now we have, a guy who watches sports center highlights and an owner who takes that guys advice.

[MattFancy]

snyder might not always make the smartest moves, but at least he is willing to do whatever it takes to try to improve the team. look at the owners of the browns, lions, cardinals, and texans. those teams are bad every year and you really dont hear about any big moves they make with the exception of the cardinals lately. yeah snyder likes to make his money, but he still is willing to do anything he can to make the team better. i'd rather have an owner who is willing to spend money and improve the team than an owner who just likes to make money and do the bare minimum.

[ttr77]

snyder might not always make the smartest moves, but at least he is willing to do whatever it takes to try to improve the team. look at the owners of the browns, lions, cardinals, and texans. those teams are bad every year and you really dont hear about any big moves they make with the exception of the cardinals lately. yeah snyder likes to make his money, but he still is willing to do anything he can to make the team better. i'd rather have an owner who is willing to spend money and improve the team than an owner who just likes to make money and do the bare minimum.

Funny you mentioned 4 other teams...since the Skins were the 5th worst team in the league last year. And again, here is that 'at least we arent the worst team in the league' defense - as if saying that over and over will make the Skins' situation any better.

[Dick Edds]

What? When did we make it through them? We've been total crap for a decade and a half. Two playoff appearances in fifteen years, the latest year being 5-11, is not exactly what I'd call "making it through them."

"we made it through them" meaning that I believe our worst days are behind us.

But feel free to call it whatever you want or need to to make yourself feel better.

Like I said before, "just my $.02" ...

[Smoot Point Really]

Are you stuck in park or something in the old brain case?

I don't care, at all, about Snyder's past ventures. They are irrelevant to this "discussion."

He likes the Redskins, but he tries to make as much money out of them as possible. The money > The team. I don't see how you could possibly disagree.

The sky is blue. Wanna argue with me about that, too?

His past business dealings are CENTRAL to the discussion. Why would anyone want to own an NFL franchise with $800M startup costs and a salary cap of at least $100M per year unless they valued owning the franchise over the money? You do not realize that there is an opportunity cost that he is forgoing putting his money into the Redskins instead of something that could earn him more money. You must not grasp the concept of "opportunity costs" or perhaps I'm not explaining myself correctly.

[Flycoach]

And why? Give me one example of an owner of a team in the NFL that has done a better job than Dan Snyder. And I dont mean an owner that has done a better job recently. I mean throughout the life of thier ownership.

Other than maybe Bob Kraft, I just dont see an owner that has an awesome record. I see Tom Brady making Bob Kraft and Bill Belichick look pretty smart. Considering Belichick and Bledsoe led the patriots to a stellar 5-11 season the year before Brady stepped in.

And during his head coaching tenure in Cleveland, Belichick compiled a less than impressive 36-44 record.

I have no problem whatsoever with Dan Snyder. He's made mistakes, but, so what, we all do. His are just on a larger scale. At least he not only wants to win, but he does all that he can to make it happen. I'd rather have an owner who messes up by doing something, than one who makes mistakes by omission.

I tell my son all of the time, "in life, you'll regret more things that you haven't done, than things you did".

[rumpshakers]

Me, just give me Dans money and I'll give Kraft a run for his money

[Dick Edds]

snyder might not always make the smartest moves, but at least he is willing to do whatever it takes to try to improve the team. look at the owners of the browns, lions, cardinals, and texans. those teams are bad every year and you really dont hear about any big moves they make with the exception of the cardinals lately. yeah snyder likes to make his money, but he still is willing to do anything he can to make the team better. i'd rather have an owner who is willing to spend money and improve the team than an owner who just likes to make money and do the bare minimum.

I agree with you here ... although Snyder has made a lot of bad moves and mistakes, he desperately wants to win. Now whether or not he really knows how to do that or whether this latest venture of Gibbs II brings that success, is yet to be seen and is very debatable, especially around these parts. But no way I would ever buy into some conspiracy theory that he is only the owner of the Skins to make money ... he already knows how to make money, so I'd like to think he's in this thing to WIN (haha, AND make money at the same time).

Hell, look at the way he reacts in the owners booth when we win, especially against the Cowboys in both of the thrillers of the past 2 seasons ... he's like a child going bezerk jumping up and down, kind of like myself, a fan.

[Skins24]

Trying to think of an owner who came in and lit the league up right away.......

I'm thinking in the first few years of a job that lasts a life time, you'll make a few mistakes. I'm GLAD he's made the mistakes he's made early, as it'll (hopefully) only make him better in the long run.

2 playoff wins and a 59-69 (rs) record in the first few years of a BRAND NEW owner whose only expericnce in football is being a fan?

Do people realize how much worse we could (and maybe should) be?

[NewCliche21]

His past business dealings are CENTRAL to the discussion. Why would anyone want to own an NFL franchise with $800M startup costs and a salary cap of at least $100M per year unless they valued owning the franchise over the money? You do not realize that there is an opportunity cost that he is forgoing putting his money into the Redskins instead of something that could earn him more money. You must not grasp the concept of "opportunity costs" or perhaps I'm not explaining myself correctly.

I understand that there is an opportunity cost. I don't care. He still makes money with the Redskins, and that's his priority. He could own fifty companies, and each of their top priorities would be to make money. I don't care what his "hobby" business is, that being the Redskins, it's still a business and it's still there to make money first and foremost.

[NewCliche21]

"we made it through them" meaning that I believe our worst days are behind us.

But feel free to call it whatever you want or need to to make yourself feel better.

Like I said before, "just my $.02" ...

Yes, I'm trying to make myself feel better, brilliant observation.

I don't see why you're saying that our worst days are behind us. We were 5-11. If you need to say that our worst years are behind us to make YOURSELF feel better, then go for it.

I, however, refuse to be heartbroken again this year by pre-ordering XLII tickets.

[Dick Edds]

I'm with you skins24 ... things could be a lot worse. That doesn't mean that we are settling for having a losing record, or a losing franchise for that matter.

If I can be chastised for being a homer and looking at the glass as half-full ... then so to can those folks who constantly want to compare us to franchises who have been consistent losers for their ENTIRE team history and have no hardware to show for it.

[Diesel70ChipOnWhite]

Are you nuts?

You make it sound like we've won 2 SB's over the past 8 seasons.

Fact is, overall the Redskins have a losing record since 1999 and the W-L has gotten worse recently, not better.

Why did you stop at 1999. Dan inherited a loser for 6 years prior to that. Its not like we were world beaters before he got here. We haven't seen a SuperBowl since 91. With him as the owner we have gone to two playoffs with two wins....hardly anything to clap about but at the same time all cannot be blamed on him.

Is he money driven?

Yes.

Is he the worst owner in the league?

No. Flat out No.

But any day of the week i will take.......

[Dick Edds]

Yes, I'm trying to make myself feel better, brilliant observation.

I don't see why you're saying that our worst days are behind us. We were 5-11. If you need to say that our worst years are behind us to make YOURSELF feel better, then go for it.

I, however, refuse to be heartbroken again this year by pre-ordering XLII tickets.

I am gonna go out on a limb and assume that you don't see why I am saying that our worst days are behind us because you have a more pessimistic outlook on our future than i do. That's it, nothing more and nothing less.

Seems you are looking for some kind of an argument or have real issues understanding how people see things differently than you. I'm not sure which it is, but regardless ... you have just as valid reason, as do I, for why you think one way or the other, again ... as do I.

Look, I am not here to get into a pissing contest over a subjective question. I just answered the question that was asked in the first place, yet you seem to want to have some kind of back and forth with me, for assumed reasons I mentioned above.

You've said at least three times directly to me that "we were 5-11" last year as if that is some kind of evidence to support your opinion of why you think Snyder is a crappy owner. That may be enough for you, but it's not for me. I know what our record was off the top of my head for past 5 years, and I know what Snyder's overall record is as owner of this team, etc. etc. ... that does not take into account all of the other factors I am using to decide FOR MYSELF as to why I think Snyder is a damn good owner. Obviously there are others around here who see things in the same light I do, and there are plenty of folks who see things the way you do.

It wouldn't really be a discussion if every person had the same outlook on things.

[NewCliche21]

I am gonna go out on a limb and assume that you don't see why I am saying that our worst days are behind us because you have a more pessimistic outlook on our future than i do. That's it, nothing more and nothing less.

Seems you are looking for some kind of an argument or have real issues understanding how people see things differently than you. I'm not sure which it is, but regardless ... you have just as valid reason, as do I, for why you think one way or the other, again ... as do I.

Look, I am not here to get into a pissing contest over a subjective question. I just answered the question that was asked in the first place, yet you seem to want to have some kind of back and forth with me, for assumed reasons I mentioned above.

You've said at least three times directly to me that "we were 5-11" last year as if that is some kind of evidence to support your opinion of why you think Snyder is a crappy owner. That may be enough for you, but it's not for me. I know what our record was off the top of my head for past 5 years, and I know what Snyder's overall record is as owner of this team, etc. etc. ... that does not take into account all of the other factors I am using to decide FOR MYSELF as to why I think Snyder is a damn good owner. Obviously there are others around here who see things in the same light I do, and there are plenty of folks who see things the way you do.

It wouldn't really be a discussion if every person had the same outlook on things.

Wow, calm down, man. I'm saying that, until proven otherwise, which I pray to G-d that I am, our worst days are not behind us. Our most recent season was 5-11; our most recent game was a loss.

I want us to win. Go back and look at my prediction last year: 13-3, XLI champions. I was sorely disappointed. There's a major difference between being a fan who doesn't want his heart broken again and being a fan who finds the Sun on a cloudy day. You are the latter, and I envy that. Really.

[AceSkinsFan]

Jerry Jones. His new stadium kicks ***.

Plus his team does well in the paloffs. And he gets proven team players like T.O. and Romo sits to pee.

Romo sits to pee has a 95 QB rating too, thanks to Jerry.

:dallasuck

This was my knee jerk reaction without reading any other replies. I truly hope this was a joke...

[Smoot Point Really]

Funny you mentioned 4 other teams...since the Skins were the 5th worst team in the league last year. And again, here is that 'at least we arent the worst team in the league' defense - as if saying that over and over will make the Skins' situation any better.

Unbelievable... Everyone of your posts skirts the issues that are really the owners responsibility and blames Dan Snyder for things that are the responsibility of the Coaches and Players.

For 7 years, there have been missteps that can be attributed to decision-making of the owner, but the last 3 years you cannot blame Dan Snyder for the wons/losses. He put a HoF coach on the field and brought in every coach/player that the "organization" felt would improve this team. You want the guy to return kicks too?