Are the skins twice as good? (realist only)

[2006Skins]

Nace, we cannot be counting on teams being worst, and I don't know about losing 90%... Im not positive but who other than petitgout and barber left the east.. As to those of you claiming or wo's are in fact better then the eagles im gonna go by a few stats here real quick:

Moss: 55 for 790 with an avg of 14.4

Brown: 46 for 816 with an avg of 17.7

Lloyd: 23 for 365 with an avg of 15.9

Baskett: 22 for 464 with an avg of 21.1

ARE: 32 for 351 with an avg of 11.0

Lewis: 24 for 348 with an avg of 14.5

I don't think you guys understand I hate it as much as you do, but numbers don't lie our receiving core is BAD

I know you are a realist, but there are times when numbers lie. This is one of those times. You must take into account injuries, strategy and who the supporting cast is.

1. Moss played injured most of the season and Lloyd didn't even play every game (due to benching and injury :doh: )

2. The second half of the season the 700 pg playbook got cut down to 2 with 90% being run plays to Betts.

3. Brunell was playing the first half of the season .:doh:

You must take into account outside forces when looking at numbers. Numbers do when given the opportunity. This is one of those instances my friend.

[BMahoney]

Nace I acknowledged that barber left i was unaware he was 90% of the team, and again those of you knocking brunell, HE HAD BETTER NUMBERS THAN JC

[ttr77]

Well, since you asked...I'll say 'no'. I don't think the Skins will be twice as good. I still think the d-line will end up being a liability. But that's just my opinion.

But they did make some improvements. I think they are 1.5 times as good. So they'll win exactly 7.5 games.

[emor09]

Staylor fan brunell had better numbers then campbell? I dont understand your point...

i hope this isnt a serious post...if it is, you gotta watch games more than look at numbers...numbers dont win games buddy

[Cali Boi]

#7 on your list is the funniest thing I have read on here since someone said last year before the Indy game that what P. Manning was going to do to our db's should be rated nc-17.

Nobody knows how well any team will do this year in the NFL. Last year at this time we looked like we were sitting pretty coming off of two years with top 10 defenses, a playoff victory and only two starters lost, one who only started part of the year in 2005. Our D-line, particularly against the run was considered a strength, while our biggest worry was O-line depth.

Poof a few months down the road and quite a few injuries later we are stinking up the joint. The reasons we stunk are too many to count but a few of the major ones are (in no particular order)

1. Brunell reverted to 2004 form.

2. Clinton Portis never recovered from shoulder

3. Cornelius Griffin played injured most of the year and was a shadow of his former self. Big Joe played injured most of the year and was a shadow of his former self. Because of this Lemar Marshall's weaknesses as a MLB are exposed. In addition, with Griffin no longer being doubled opponents can concentrate their blocking elsewhere.

4. New offensive system took some time to implement.

5. Secondary in shambles because of injuries and lack of depth exacerbated by the Adam Archuleta debacle. Inability to man cover severely limited teams ability to blitz which had been main source of pass rush previous two seasons.

6. Warrick Holdman

7. Side judges, cameramen and ball boys in fear for their lives as Brunell threw bullet after bullet after bullet out of bounds on 3rd and 5 after going through his progressions from 1 to 1.

8. Marcus Washington hampered by various injuries limiting his playmaking ability.

9. Brandon Lloyd unable to consistently produce.

So the answer to your question is we can be better by improving in most of these areas.

1. Clipboard.

2. Portis & Betts combo.

3. Griffin healthy? Montgomery and Golston another year under their belts. London Fletcher on board.

4. 2nd year in system.

5. Springs back, Smoot, Macklin, Landry, Butler

6. Buh-bye Holdman, Hello Rocky.

7. Campbell another year under his belt

8. Washington healthy?

9. Lloyd another year in the system.

[2006Skins]

Nace I acknowledged that barber left i was unaware he was 90% of the team, and again those of you knocking brunell, HE HAD BETTER NUMBERS THAN JC

Again numbers do lie. WATCH the Jax game and the Hou game. Receivers did most of the work. I cannot stress enough to actually watch the games instead of just looking at stats.

[BMahoney]

06 skins to your 3 points 1) Correct 2) Brunnell only threw the ball 53 more times then campbell, in two games so we really didn't cut down on the passing 3.) BRUNELL HAD BETTER NUMBERS

[Birdlives]

Will mb and birdlives, Im curious do you just post a sentence to ***** about nothing because you are just stupid and have no opinion, or facts. Guess what no one in here gives two ****s when you started or stopped reading any thread, if you have something to say for argumentative sake please do, because I am already 100% positive I will bury you if thats all you have to say.

1. You might want to read a few of my posts before you think you know who I am.

2. :nana:

[emor09]

06 skins to your 3 points 1) Correct 2) Brunnell only threw the ball 53 more times then campbell, in two games so we really didn't cut down on the passing 3.) BRUNELL HAD BETTER NUMBERS

THIS ISN'T FANTASY FOOTBALL!! NUMBERS MEAN NOTHING!!!

[BMahoney]

Birdlives Im not reading your posts if they have something to say I would love to but so far you have said ****. Until that changes my opinion of you stays the same, (you have nothing important to add to any conversation)

[2006Skins]

06 skins to your 3 points 1) Correct 2) Brunnell only threw the ball 53 more times then campbell, in two games so we really didn't cut down on the passing 3.) BRUNELL HAD BETTER NUMBERS

Please see my above post.

Watch the games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:doh1:

[BMahoney]

How is it that numbers mean nothing can soemone explain this to me, only in very certain cases do numbers not count such as the hou game, ints in the end zone and such. A qb having better numbers with the exact same team does matter, this is a number telling of how the qb performed. Please show me some stats of great qb's that are bad, where the numbers as you say "lied" because I am yet to find one.

[BMahoney]

Can we stop with watch the games we all watched the games last season, it appears a few of you were riding campbells nuts threw his first couple of games. He was just beginning to start I didnt expect more from him but please stop acting as if he has proven something, or we become just as bad as the cow girl fans on romos nuts.

[emor09]

How is it that numbers mean nothing can soemone explain this to me, only in very certain cases do numbers not count such as the hou game, ints in the end zone and such. A qb having better numbers with the exact same team does matter, this is a number telling of how the qb performed. Please show me some stats of great qb's that are bad, where the numbers as you say "lied" because I am yet to find one.

Campbell's 2 wins- New Orleans and Carolina

Brunell's 3 wins- Texans, Jags, and Cowboys

Campbell's wins were both better quality than Brunell's. I guarentee that Campbell would have won the Titans game, and probably the Minnesota game. and he would have given us a better chance to win than Brunell gave us

[SKINS FAN #56]

Everyone stop arguing dammit...lets just see what happens this year

[nace14]

Nace I acknowledged that barber left i was unaware he was 90% of the team, and again those of you knocking brunell, HE HAD BETTER NUMBERS THAN JC

i'm sorry, he isn't PHYSICALLY 90% of the team, he's way to short to be that. but he did account for some absolutely ridiculous amount of their total yards that waslike 90%.

and look, going 25-25 against houston with only two passes that travel down field more than 15 yards and your longest pass being a shovel pass to portis for 70-some yards looks great on paper. and we did win that game so it looked great, but lets be a realist about that one. it was a joke and not very helpful to our receivers numbers, not that numbers mean much in my book anyway. that is why stats don't always show what really happened.

[BMahoney]

Here are a few numbers for you that just must be lying:

-First lets talk about campbells 118 yds and a pick in the carolina game. Thats what helped us win? Or was it the defense getting two big picks at crucial points in the game.

-The new orleans game was one of the ugliest games they played all season, our defense if anyone deserves credit, but something telling me campbells 204 yds and no tds wasnt the real game changer.

[RIDETHEWALRUS]

How is it that numbers mean nothing can soemone explain this to me, only in very certain cases do numbers not count such as the hou game, ints in the end zone and such. A qb having better numbers with the exact same team does matter, this is a number telling of how the qb performed. Please show me some stats of great qb's that are bad, where the numbers as you say "lied" because I am yet to find one.

If you want a great Qb with not so great numbers just examine Brett Farve.

Problem you are having here looking at numbers is that you are looking at selective numbers.

When people here say watch the games they are in fact saying observe Jason Cambell's pocket presence and how much better it is than Brunell's. For example. In 9 starts Brunell fumbled 5 times. He got sacked 12 times. On the other hand in 7 starts Cambell got sacked 7 times and fumbled only once. This gievs an indication of what in fact occurred behind center. Cambell looked poised and in control. Brunell looked frantic and nervous.

As for the twice as good bit that is a false premise. We only have to be a shade better to win twice as many games. We do not have to be twice as good for a couple of 4-5 point games to swing our way.

And BMahoney maybe you ought to develop a reputation as an intelligent poster before taking the stance that others are s--theads.

[emor09]

Here are a few numbers for you that just must be lying:

-First lets talk about campbells 118 yds and a pick in the carolina game. Thats what helped us win? Or was it the defense getting two big picks at crucial points in the game.

-The new orleans game was one of the ugliest games they played all season, our defense if anyone deserves credit, but something telling me campbells 204 yds and no tds wasnt the real game changer.

Campbell threw a 66 yard td to Cooley in a clutch spot, down 13-10 in the 4th i think.

and Campbell threw a TD to Moss vs New Orleans, so idk wut ur smokin bud

[BMahoney]

Nace I thought you meant they actually lost more of their team, I was just unaware havent been keeping that many tabs on the g-men. As far as the hou game goes I have admitted that numbers can lie in very rare instances, but I watched all the same games yall did last season and Im showing you true numbers that IMO are not lies whatsoever lemme know what you think

[thewagen]

Just kidding about the title, I actually prefer people who disagree with me and offer their arguments. Well here it goes as many of you have probably read the article in the examiner today, are the skins twice as good as last season because that is what would be required of us to make the playoffs. IMO no they are not even close to twice as good as last season, the only problem we have really taken care of is the secondary. Which probably didn't even need that much help it just appeared that way because the quarter back had a few years to throw the ball while standing in the pocket, and we all saw how much room they had to step up since we get virtually no push up the middle. As far as qb situation goes, I would love and I pray every night that JC is the real deal, but he is yet to be proven, he showed some signs last season of greatness but he was also terribly inaccurate. We don't know how cp will be able to play when he gets back, and betts has a case of the fumbles on big downs. Our wr core is probably the worst in the nfl, the only upside to our passing game is moss when hes not hurt and cooley. Our real problem this offseason was d lineman and it was not taken care of, I just really hope we don't see the same thing as last year and watch all of our great talent in the secondary go to waste because no one can cover a receiver for that long. I think we have the capability of going 10-6, whether or not our players will do it is yet to be seen. I guess what I want from this post is an optimist very opposite of myself to give me a few facts or opinions on why we will do good next season, and JC doing good in OTA's doesn't count.

Don't have to be twice as good...that's ludicrus! They just have to be 7 points better in six games, 'casue they lost six of em last year by 6 points or less.. Sure doesn't take a team that is twice as good to do that...That's only ONE FRIGGIN PLAY per game better...GEEEZZZUSSS, everyone is such a friggin doubter!!! ONLY ONE PLAY better? Same team can do that!

[Cali Boi]

What the numbers don't tell you is we have an old, washed up qb in Mark who's numbers are a little better than a young qb in Jason who only started the last 7 games of the year and never practiced with the the 1st team. It's always hard to come in the middle of the season and play at a high level for anyone but Jason did as well as he could imo.

Can we stop with watch the games we all watched the games last season, it appears a few of you were riding campbells nuts threw his first couple of games. He was just beginning to start I didnt expect more from him but please stop acting as if he has proven something, or we become just as bad as the cow girl fans on romos nuts.

[skins4me58203]

Nace I thought you meant they actually lost more of their team, I was just unaware havent been keeping that many tabs on the g-men. As far as the hou game goes I have admitted that numbers can lie in very rare instances, but I watched all the same games yall did last season and Im showing you true numbers that IMO are not lies whatsoever lemme know what you think

Not to be rude or offend, But I think Brunell absolutely sucked last year. Even with the great number you refer to. He gave us no chance of winning, or even being competitive.

I respect him as a QB...but he is done. However, he may be a suitable back up. As long as back mean 3 series and put JC back in. If JC goes down for the season, we are F'd.

[Darth Tater]

Actually, we only need to be about net 4-5% better to get to the playoffs, between 6-8%, we will win the division, and more than 10%, we will probably be in the SB. Of course, in the NFL a net improvement of more than 4% is huge. When I say net, that is how much better you actually are less any improvement in your opponents. Pro football is a game played at the margin. Even some of the biggest blow outs you see come because the team doing the blown out is only slightly better than the team getting blown out. In games where the margin is less than 10 points, there are probably less than 3 key plays!

Further, it is more about who you play and when than anything else. Last season, we played a lot of top offenses when our defense was severely dinged. Our defense could be dinged up again, and the offenses we play may be the elite, but how likely is that? We played the last 7 with what was essentially a rookie QB and our back up RB. We played without our best defenders, and even when they did go, we were not 100%.

Also, we made some mistakes. We brought in a guy to play safety who didn't work out. We tried to implement a new offensive scheme. We knew we were going to have to rely on our defense to get us through the first half of the season. Did our defense pull us through? When it was relatively healthy, it stoned the best two offenses in the NFL!

In any case, the question is really just can it happen? The answer is yes. The Rams went 4-12 in '98 only to win the SB the next year. We were just 4% better in '99 then '98 so we went to the playoffs. How about NO last year, did they improve by more than 100%? Will it happen? Don't know, if I did, wouldn't I be retired and living on my own island somewhere?

[Passizle]

Is it me? Or whenever I read a stupid post does it always seem to come from a newbee. I welcome newbs whole heartedly. I completley understand if a newb were to post something in the wrong forum, break rules or something to that affect. I did it when I was new. But I feel that you should know a little about football, or your own team before you post things like in this thread.

If you dont like the team... fine.

If you have doubts... fine.

But if you are going to make over the top comments, without backing it up with some proof... not fine.

Explain to me why you think we have the worst receiving core in the NFL.