jpillian Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Professor fired over class discussion of shootings http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/04/23/professor.fired.ap/index.html BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- An adjunct professor was fired after leading a classroom discussion about the Virginia Tech shootings in which he pointed a marker at some students and said "pow." The five-minute demonstration at Emmanuel College on Wednesday, two days after a student killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus, included a discussion of gun control, whether to respond to violence with violence, and the public's "celebration of victimhood," said the professor, Nicholas Winset. During the demonstration, Winset pretended to shoot some students. Then one student pretended to shoot Winset to illustrate his point that the gunman might have been stopped had another student or faculty member been armed. "A classroom is supposed to be a place for academic exploration," Winset, who taught financial accounting, told the Boston Herald. He said administrators had asked the faculty to engage students on the issue. But on Friday, he got a letter saying he was fired and ordering him to stay off campus. Winset, 37, argued that the Catholic liberal arts school was stifling free discussion by firing him, and he said the move would have a "chilling effect" on open debate. He posted an 18-minute video on the online site YouTube defending his action. The college issued a statement saying: "Emmanuel College has clear standards of classroom and campus conduct, and does not in any way condone the use of discriminatory or obscene language." Student Junny Lee, 19, told The Boston Globe that most students didn't appear to find Winset's demonstration offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Meh, stupid people everywhere. Even teaching in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Seems pretty harsh on the school's part and pretty insensitive on the teacher's part. I wonder how he feels about the guy going into a NASA building (where a lot of people have guns) and shooting someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Seems pretty harsh on the school's part and pretty insensitive on the teacher's part. I wonder how he feels about the guy going into a NASA building (where a lot of people have guns) and shooting someone. How would know if lots of people at NASA had guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 Interesting, I'd seen this posted on CNN.com all day yesterday -- but didn't read until today. Honestly, I thought it would have been something more extreme -- especially to get the guy fired. From the description given here, it sounds like a bit of an overreaction; but perhaps there is a perspective to I haven't yet seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 How would know if lots of people at NASA had guns? You don't think they have security at NASA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 You don't think they have security at NASA? Security =/= lots of guns Virginia Tech had security too . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSUHeckler Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I understand why this action may be worthy of firing, very touchy subject and so soon. But I don't think the teacher in anyway meant to disrespect the ones that passed away. A classroom is meant for teachers to make students think outside the box. It was probably one sole person that misinterpreted the 'lesson' and instead of confronting the teacher directly, they complained to school officials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 You don't think they have security at NASA? I'd imagine they'd have point security around the entrance to the complex (if that's how NASA in Houston is laid out) and perhaps some additional point security at the entrance to mission control itself. They'd have some limited "active" security to patrol areas, but most government agencies still don't use much in this regard. Rely on cheaper surveillance and access control security to limit head count, I'd bet. I think the shootings took place in an office building area -- I doubt they'd have much in the way of "active" security there to respond directly to the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Security =/= lots of gunsVirginia Tech had security too . . . Fine, how about this... there aren't the same concealed weapons laws at a NASA building in Houston that there are on a Virginia college campus. The whole argument is that VT may have been avoided if the students could carry guns. In a government building in Texas I would put dollars to cents that a few people are walking around strapped - yet it didn't stop this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 On the face of it, it sounds like an overreaction to fire the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 The real question is whether this professor should have been able to bring up this point in a classroom discussion (in this manner) -- without getting fired. I'd say, given the description off of CNN.com -- he absolutely should not have been fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Guys, this school is a client of my employer - they are a hardcore Catholic College. It's mystifying to me as well, but not terribly surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 i read this last night and actually went to youtube to see the videos that the professor posted in response to his firing. while the videos are going to be biased towards his side of things, he certainly doesn't strike me as a idiot teacher. a bit of a tool... yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 He shouldn't have been fired. Where is the freedom of speech stuff at?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 He shouldn't have been fired. Where is the freedom of speech stuff at?? Freedom of speech does not mean you are free from the consequences of your speech - especially at your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drums and skins Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I'd say, given the description off of CNN.com -- he absolutely should not have been fired. I agree... The only thing I don't get is why did this guy feel like he needed to get on a soapbox when he teaches financial accounting. Regardless, nothing to me tells me that he shouldve been fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Freedom of speech does not mean you are free from the consequences of your speech - especially at your job. Regardless, they went overboard with the firing. I could see if the Professor spoke with a class and was to open up a wound at lets say, VT on the 24 of April 2007. The guy was in another state discussion the massacre with his class. Sounds like this school wanted to make the news with its posturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Regardless, they went overboard with the firing. I could see if the Professor spoke with a class and was to open up a wound at lets say, VT on the 24 of April 2007.The guy was in another state discussion the massacre with his class. Sounds like this school wanted to make the news with its posturing. Oh, I agree he shouldn't have been fired. I was just pointing out that you it is perfectly acceptable to fire someone over what they said - freedom of speech does not give you carte blanche. I don't, however, think this was a case where what he said was enough to be fired over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBT Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 Oh, I agree he shouldn't have been fired. I was just pointing out that you it is perfectly acceptable to fire someone over what they said - freedom of speech does not give you carte blanche. I don't, however, think this was a case where what he said was enough to be fired over. Yeah, it could have been other stuff that's not being reported. If anything, the Professor messed up using gestures in front of the class instead of just discussing it aloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 You don't think they have security at NASA?Actually I have coworkers who work at Houston NASA. Its not as tight there as you might think.Its not like they house the shuttle at Johnson center. They are all doctors and engineers. Plus, do you remember the guy that walked into the Capital building and killed two capital police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 On the face of it, it sounds like an overreaction to fire the guy. Agreed...seems like an overreaction to me. And I'm wondering - if his students said they weren't offended, who blew the whistle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 This is defiantly an overreaction. That is a good discussion, the type that should take place at a college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oriolesfan93p Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 He shouldn't have been fired. Where is the freedom of speech stuff at?? However much I agree that he shouldn't have been fired for this, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech has to do with the government not infringing upon someone's speech, not keeping people from being fired form an institution that thinks the employee went way overboard. If you are going to argue that he shouldn't have been fired then use better arguments, Freedom of speech states what the government's role in speech is, not what individually run organizations can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I wonder if they were already looking for an excuse to fire him. This seems pretty drastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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