Gibbs does not believe the Dline is a problem (theory)

[Veretax]

IF and that is a very big IF, we trade up ot get CJ and still have first day picks in 2008 and a couple picks this year, then and only then would I believe it, though I'd be surprised, with the way they are talking Oakland and Detroit are essentially doing what we did to briggs, that is raise the minimum necessary to even get in the door to bargain for him. Thats why at this point I think we are out of the picture. However, if come draft day oakland and detroit's plans have failed i wouldn't be surprised if we slide in there, but I'm not as optomistic about it as I once was.

[allwet]

Great post--very interesting. If I were a greedy man, I would hope that we trade down to 8th-10th spot and still get Laundry and maybe a DE in the second or third round. But I'll try and contain my greed.

Currently, I like our defensive roster when healthy and playing as a group, and if I was Joe and GW, I would determine the defensive need based on the risk of injury. If Griff, Springs, Salavea, Pierson P., and Washington are healthy, there is no way we'll be close to 31st in the league next year. But how confident are we that Springs will last the whole year or Griff or Salavea? The defensive calls are completely different with Springs in the game vs. when he was out last year. I think to a lesser extent you can say the same for Griff, too.

Two other notes:

Just a hunch, but I think Joe Salavea, if healthy, will have a great 2007 rotating with Golstein. He had a lot of injuries and a death in his family last year, and I think he's going to come back looking to prove something in 2007.

Per Daniel's comment on rushing three, as I remember they did that mainly on 3rd down. There was that period in the middle of the season where it just seemed like they couldn't get off the field. They would play decent on first or second down and then fifteen yard or twenty-five yard pass play for a first down.

Once, again, great post. Thanks.

[TURKEYTALKER]

so if you have to read between because Gibbs doesn't tell the media what he's realy thinking maybe they want the Thomas boy out of Wisconsin

[Rick Allen]

Great Post- thank you.

I think at #6 with the money you're going to pay you have to draft a player that can start early after learning the system. This holds true for every position except quarterback.

If you want someone who can start early and not be a project player then Gaines Adams and Laron Landry are the best candidates. They are both athletic play makers. Okoye is a possibility but DT is a position with big money veterans and promising back ups. It would be hard to fit in a high priced rookie at DT because so much money is already committed to this position. If they were looking for a DT they would have to cut one of the big money vets.

1) Gibbs does advocate, "best available athelete" and if this were the only factor then Adams, Okoye or Landry would be equally as good.

2) Gibbs also talks about, "Redskin Type players" and this is where Landry seems to be heads above the rest. The word on Landry is that he is a hard worker, and an intellegent, highly coachable player.

3) The third consideration in Langry's favor is that the starting safety vacancy created by Adam A's departure has not been filled. It is true we have a bunch of safeties but AA was supposed to be an NFL starter with some good years left. The other guys we have all come with big question marks in terms of quality. AA was brought in to fill a safety position when the starter was lost to free agency. The previous starting safety (I forget his name) was said to be a good anchor that allowed Taylor do what he does best. When Smoot left Gibbs drafted Rogers. With AA gone I think they'll go for Landry even if Adams is still on the board.

4) As far as trading up for Johnson goes he would be like drafting a DT. There is already too much money committed in long term contracts to WR positions. If the coaches feel that LLoyd is a bust they might go for Johnson but at #6 there will be plenty of starting caliber guys on the board in positions we need more help in.

5) In the end I think Landry will be there at #6 and they will take him or trade down. Trading down opens a hole hoard of possibilities but none that will bring in an immediate starter in a position of need. Landry does that.

I think the big question is that if Landry is not there at #6 will they take, if available, Adams or trade the pick? I would take Adams because he is an immediate good quality starter and DE is one of the thinnest positions.

Thanks again for the post. /RA

[flexxskins]

I know you seem somewhat bias'd, but I am starting to think that as well. Gibbs tends to like safer picks, and right now, the top 3-5 d-line are kinda risky. Branch and Anderson seem risky, Carriker and Okoye seem to be workout wonders. Gaines Adams is the only one I feel worth drafting, but he would be like having another Carter, and Williams wants his run stopper type DE's.

Landry is a safer pick instead. I hope we trade down, but if we don't, I believe Landry is our guy.

If this is indeed the case, shouldn't we then be making some kind of effort to Kris Jenkins? DT's like him aren't available everyday.

[SkinFanRoanoke]

Great post--very interesting. If I were a greedy man, I would hope that we trade down to 8th-10th spot and still get Laundry and maybe a DE in the second or third round. But I'll try and contain my greed.

Currently, I like our defensive roster when healthy and playing as a group, and if I was Joe and GW, I would determine the defensive need based on the risk of injury. If Griff, Springs, Salavea, Pierson P., and Washington are healthy, there is no way we'll be close to 31st in the league next year. But how confident are we that Springs will last the whole year or Griff or Salavea? The defensive calls are completely different with Springs in the game vs. when he was out last year. I think to a lesser extent you can say the same for Griff, too.

Two other notes:

Just a hunch, but I think Joe Salavea, if healthy, will have a great 2007 rotating with Golstein. He had a lot of injuries and a death in his family last year, and I think he's going to come back looking to prove something in 2007.

Per Daniel's comment on rushing three, as I remember they did that mainly on 3rd down. There was that period in the middle of the season where it just seemed like they couldn't get off the field. They would play decent on first or second down and then fifteen yard or twenty-five yard pass play for a first down.

Once, again, great post. Thanks.

After first round pick we only have picks in round 5, 6, & 7.

[Mr.Z]

IF and that is a very big IF, we trade up ot get CJ and still have first day picks in 2008 and a couple picks this year, then and only then would I believe it, though I'd be surprised, with the way they are talking Oakland and Detroit are essentially doing what we did to briggs, that is raise the minimum necessary to even get in the door to bargain for him.

...hmmmm, huh?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Gibbs also talks about, "Redskin Type players" and this is where Landry seems to be heads above the rest. The word on Landry is that he is a hard worker, and an intellegent, highly coachable player.

I find it amazing that the other 31 teams openly seek lazy, dumb players.

[Mr.Z]

1) Gibbs does advocate, "best available athelete" and if this were the only factor then Adams, Okoye or Landry would be equally as good.

2) Gibbs also talks about, "Redskin Type players" and this is where Landry seems to be heads above the rest. The word on Landry is that he is a hard worker, and an intellegent, highly coachable player.

3) The third consideration in Langry's favor is that the starting safety vacancy created by Adam A's departure has not been filled. It is true we have a bunch of safeties but AA was supposed to be an NFL starter with some good years left. The other guys we have all come with big question marks in terms of quality. AA was brought in to fill a safety position when the starter was lost to free agency. The previous starting safety (I forget his name) was said to be a good anchor that allowed Taylor do what he does best. When Smoot left Gibbs drafted Rogers. With AA gone I think they'll go for Landry even if Adams is still on the board.

4) As far as trading up for Johnson goes he would be like drafting a DT. There is already too much money committed in long term contracts to WR positions. If the coaches feel that LLoyd is a bust they might go for Johnson but at #6 there will be plenty of starting caliber guys on the board in positions we need more help in.

/RA

In response to your first point, can anyone argue that CJ is not the "best available althlete."

As far as "Redskin Type players," The rumor is that CJ is also very team oriented, and will work hard where ever he goes.

I know we just spent a bunch of money bringing in RE and BL, but i was thinking we could package a deal (maybe with the browns) for Lloyd. That would free up some flow, while opening a slot reciever position for CJ.

I think Landry is going to be a beast, but you have kind of implied that AA left us high and dry, which is not true. He did not make ANY impact on the improvement of our team, so the vacancy you mentioned does not really exist.

[Staylor21]

He is excatly right on this post if we really thought that DLine was a problem we would have signed some vet Dlineman but we didn't we didn't even have a DLineman vist us this offseason. So like i have been saying the Redskins really feel that the Safety is a key part because just look at what we did last year by signing AA aka "Absolute Ass" so we will draft Landry and trade future picks and move into the late first round or early second and draft a Dlineman. Right now i'm pretty sure we will go after Landry.

[Die Hard]

He is excatly right on this post if we really thought that DLine was a problem we would have signed some vet Dlineman but we didn't we didn't even have a DLineman vist us this offseason.

What defensive linemen were available in free agency? Because I seem to recall every defensive linemen worth a damn got franchised or restricted free agents.

[SkinFanRoanoke]

Rick Allen are you Landry's Agent ?

[bobzmuda]

What defensive linemen were available in free agency? Because I seem to recall every defensive linemen worth a damn got franchised or restricted free agents.

Lance Briggs was franchised, but that didn't stop the FO from making a play on him. If the FO thought that pass-rusher was such a big need don't you think they would have made the same push for Freeney, who was also franchised?

[bobzmuda]

I find it amazing that the other 31 teams openly seek lazy' date=' dumb players.[/quote']

[Die Hard]

Lance Briggs was franchised, but that didn't stop the FO from making a play on him. If the FO thought that pass-rusher was such a big need don't you think they would have made the same push for Freeney, who was also franchised?

A franchise player is valued at 2 first round draft picks. When the Redskins made their "play"... they didn't even offer a single first round pick. They offered to simply switch a first rounder. Hence, the Bears turned it down.

Putting an offer on a player well-below market value - at least by NFL standards - is hardly showing acceptable interest in a player. Their first offer was their only offer. If the Redskins were truly serious... the negotiations wouldn't be dead right now.

Also, I don't think anyone is questioning the fact that the FO doesn't seem to value a DE as much as fans do. Of course, this is the same FO that has made SO many player personnel mistakes in the past 3 years (and win-loss records to show for it).... that I hardly view a lack of their endorsement to address the issue as a reason to alleviate my concerns.

[Rick Allen]

In response to your first point, can anyone argue that CJ is not the "best available althlete."

As far as "Redskin Type players," The rumor is that CJ is also very team oriented, and will work hard where ever he goes.

I know we just spent a bunch of money bringing in RE and BL, but i was thinking we could package a deal (maybe with the browns) for Lloyd. That would free up some flow, while opening a slot reciever position for CJ.

I think Landry is going to be a beast, but you have kind of implied that AA left us high and dry, which is not true. He did not make ANY impact on the improvement of our team, so the vacancy you mentioned does not really exist.

Mr.Z I like the idea of trading Lloyd as he seems too immature and not the, "Redskin Type player" Gibbs prizes. From what I've read in several scout web pages CJ is a good team player. If CJ is heads above the other top prospects this would be a good deal.

It is true that AA didn't make any impact on the team last year but he needed to. His replacements last year also failed to make an impact. When they benched AA last year they tried to fill his position with a number of different players. I think Vincent was signed mid season, he'd been cut by another team. All the replacements got burned and Taylor was unsure of where he should be on the field at season end. Who could blame him. This is probably why the coaches talked to other teams about aquiring a sefety in the off season.

With Rocky starting at LB all the holes in the secondary have been plugged in the offseason. All but one. /RA

[Morneblade]

thats not true how many times did we see thisteam blitz and not even get close to the qb

Bingo I saw alot of blitzes early, and even bring 5 and 6 guys, we go 0 pressure. We got torched, and stoped blitzing. Which of course didnt help, as hte QB's had even more time to find a open guy. Springs being out hurt, but not being able to get any pressure killed us.

I will say this. If Gibbs and Williams do not think that the D-Line is a problem, then we will not have a winning season in 07'. No matter who else we bring in.

[Die Hard]

All things considered.... Lewis has been doing a fine job in Cincy.

[Morneblade]

He is excatly right on this post if we really thought that DLine was a problem we would have signed some vet Dlineman but we didn't we didn't even have a DLineman vist us this offseason. So like i have been saying the Redskins really feel that the Safety is a key part because just look at what we did last year by signing AA aka "Absolute Ass" so we will draft Landry and trade future picks and move into the late first round or early second and draft a Dlineman. Right now i'm pretty sure we will go after Landry.

To be fair, all the GOOD D-Linemen got gobbled up before FA even happened. That had alot to do with it.

[bobzmuda]

All things considered.... Lewis has been doing a fine job in Cincy.

It's pretty easy to do a fine job when you have a top-5 QB. That's the nature of the NFL these days though. Coaches who have top QBs are apparently smart, while coaches that have bad QBs are apparently dumb.

In any event I view drafting notorious bad-character guys like Chris Henry, Odell Thurman, AJ Nicholson, etc. as being decisions no better than giving a 3rd for Duckett.

[Die Hard]

I found this on a Denver Broncos board.... but I thought it applied nicely to the Redskins as well.

Ever wonder why a team like the Denver Broncos..... even with Champ Bailey, Dominique Foxworth, et al.... still value a pass rush.

[soljaofjesus]

I know this probably couldnt happen, but Id be estatic if we would get Landry and Patrick Willis.

[mi6]

Unfortunately, Gibbs didn't think anything was the problem last year. And, that's the biggest problem.

To progress, you have to acknowledge you have an issue:point2sky

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Unfortunately, Gibbs didn't think anything was the problem last year. And, that's the biggest problem.

To progress, you have to acknowledge you have an issue:point2sky

how could their be a problem with a bunch of super smart guys who fight their guts out? geez!!

[moviedude25]

"I don't believe the coaches think that the DL was the problem last year."

They were 31st against the run!!! There's definitely a problem with the d-line. And they DID do a lot of 4-man rushes, just not hardly any blitzes. The DTs didn't get any push on the interior of the line and the DEs were just pushed outside the box by the OTs. Rarely did we get sacks without rushing a linebacker or safety.

Finally a post in this thread that makes sense :applause: Remember the Giants game? Tiki Barber ran all over us. How exactly does Landy fix this? If the coaches cannot see why this is a definite need to be addressed we are going to have a terrible defense next season. It won't matter if we had the 2 best safties and the two best corners, we will lose next season because we can't stop the run.

I'm not partial on WHO the Redskins pick up with #6 but I really really really want a run stopper on the line with that pick. If an opposing team gets 3 or less yards average per carry against us next year rushing then our Defense will get the sacks we want and our improved backfield will hold down the fort just fine.