WCP: Snyder runs away with Unsportsman of the Year honors

[BuryYourDuke]

yeah, just a lot of wasted words on "evil corporations" that have a sinister plot to turn a profit. I'm so sick of these commie libs making it wrong to make money, it really is ridiculous. The writer spends much more space on Katrina, a favorite of the wealth redistribution crowd, than he does anything that actually has to do with Dan Snyder directly. Sure, we all have beefs with the way the team is run, but this article is garbage.

[whlinder]

A fish rots from the head first...why do you think teams like the Cardinals and Lions are crummy every year? The Cards have had the inept Bidwills in charge for over half a century...and have not won a playoff game since 1947. Coincidence?

The Cards won a playoff game in the late 90s. Over Dallas IIRC.

[whlinder]

I still think it is hilarious that the only division title Danny has won was coached by Norv and QB'ed by Brad Johnson! LMAO

Maybe he's a good person, maybe he isn't, but he sucks ass at running the Redskins.

[REDSKYNYRD]

yeah, just a lot of wasted words on "evil corporations" that have a sinister plot to turn a profit. I'm so sick of these commie libs making it wrong to make money, it really is ridiculous. The writer spends much more space on Katrina, a favorite of the wealth redistribution crowd, than he does anything that actually has to do with Dan Snyder directly. Sure, we all have beefs with the way the team is run, but this article is garbage.

I don't think anyone is against "evil corporations" for making a reasonable profit or a "commie lib" for pointing out the obvious. I think people are tired of paying "caviar prices" for "fish-stick" performances.

[BuryYourDuke]

I don't think anyone is against "evil corporations" for making a reasonable profit or a "commie lib" for pointing out the obvious. I think people are tired of paying "caviar prices" for "fish-stick" performances.

You have a primary misunderstanding of economics. You aren't paying for performance on the field, you are paying to watch a football game in person, or for a jersey to wear, or a beer to drink, or what have you...

And most importantly, I re-state, we are all very very lucky that tickets are not twice as much as they are. There is a season ticket waiting list of over 200,000 people. For those of you scoring at home thats a tangible, measured demand that exceeds supply by well over 200%. Now, a business person that operated by the book would manipulate the price of his product to the nexus of supply and demand. Who knows how much tickets would have to be to sell out every year, but have a small waiting list? I know it is a LOT MORE than the price is now. So, maybe we should all write Danny a thank you note for being a nice guy, and not exploiting the demand that he has for his product.

[DrunkenMaster]

If I ever run out of toilet paper I know which article to print up. But thanks for sharing.

[RFKFedEx]

You have a primary misunderstanding of economics. You aren't paying for performance on the field, you are paying to watch a football game in person, or for a jersey to wear, or a beer to drink, or what have you...

And most importantly, I re-state, we are all very very lucky that tickets are not twice as much as they are. There is a season ticket waiting list of over 200,000 people. For those of you scoring at home thats a tangible, measured demand that exceeds supply by well over 200%. Now, a business person that operated by the book would manipulate the price of his product to the nexus of supply and demand. Who knows how much tickets would have to be to sell out every year, but have a small waiting list? I know it is a LOT MORE than the price is now. So, maybe we should all write Danny a thank you note for being a nice guy, and not exploiting the demand that he has for his product.

Bury YourDuke,

What your saying all seems very logical on paper and it would appear to be simple economics 101. I agree with you that win or loose the consumer is paying for the gameday experience only, regardless of the outcome on the field.

However, like Enron stock in early 2001, the numbers the team puts out for the supposed "demand" for their season tickets appear to be falsely inflated if not greatly exagerated. I'm not saying the demand for season tickets will crash like Enron, but if you do the math, the numbers don't really add up.

Examples:

The wait list for general admission seating (the 400 level only) is supposedly 200k names long, yet some people who put their names on the waitlist in 2003 were offered up to six seats in 2006. Keep in mind that there is no wait list for any of the premium seating packages. I.E. club, field club, TD club, Tailgate club or loge level. This phenominon tells me that more than 90% of the people on the waitlist who are offered the 400 level GA tickets no longer want them by the time their names are called. At $2000 a year to sit in the corner of the upper deck for 10 games with no parking pass, it's not hard to see why most people don't want to make that kind of financial commitment. Hence, the waitlist cycles through at a pace of 20-30-40 thousand names a year? Surely, not all of those people are buying tickets. At RFK, the list would move at a pace of a few hundred names a year.

Look up in the 400 level at almost any home game and you'll see thousands upon thousands of empty red seats. The seats are all sold, but a lot of the season ticket holders have trouble giving away their tickets if it's not an NFC East opponant.

If you look at online ticket sale sites such as Ebay and Craigslist, you can usually find 400 level seats selling for below face value. On gameday morning, gobs of 400 level tickets can be found in the parking lots selling for half of their face value. Granted, the team is perfoming poorly now, but all of the above rang true at this time last year when we were winning and tickets should have been at their highest demand in years.

If tickets were in as high of demand as the team would like you to believe, scalpers would be selling them for twice their face value, as they did in the glory days at RFK. I don't know if a 92K seat stadium would fill up for every game anywhere, not even Green Bay. Also, remember that "sold out" only refers to the general admission seating and none of the premium seats.

I would be very surprised to see another price hike for the 400 level GA seating any time soon. Danny is a smart man and most of his tickets are priced at "market value".

:2cents:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You have a primary misunderstanding of economics. You aren't paying for performance on the field, you are paying to watch a football game in person, or for a jersey to wear, or a beer to drink, or what have you...

And most importantly, I re-state, we are all very very lucky that tickets are not twice as much as they are. There is a season ticket waiting list of over 200,000 people. For those of you scoring at home thats a tangible, measured demand that exceeds supply by well over 200%. Now, a business person that operated by the book would manipulate the price of his product to the nexus of supply and demand. Who knows how much tickets would have to be to sell out every year, but have a small waiting list? I know it is a LOT MORE than the price is now. So, maybe we should all write Danny a thank you note for being a nice guy, and not exploiting the demand that he has for his product.

1. If you believe that the season ticket waiting list is 200,000 long, I want to discuss some land deals with you.

2. I understand supply and demand and I know this: If the demand for tickets was what you said it was, I could not have gotten tix for the Eagles game for less than face...which I could have easily done.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Can somebody tell me the difference between snyder and Jerry Jones..please

1. Jones has three Super Bowls.

2. Jones - for all his madness - actually has a decent understanding of football. He played at a D-1 level and is probably knows enough to at least coach a high school team. I don't think he should be a GM, but he is not totally ignorant about the game either.

[RFKFedEx]

1. If you believe that the season ticket waiting list is 200' date='000 long, I want to discuss some land deals with you.

2. I understand supply and demand and I know this: If the demand for tickets was what you said it was, I could not have gotten tix for the Eagles game for less than face...which I could have easily done.[/quote']

You mean to tell me that there arn't really 200,000 people lined up with checkbook in hand to buy 400 level Redskins tickets? No way man.:laugh:

[BuryYourDuke]

1. If you believe that the season ticket waiting list is 200' date='000 long, I want to discuss some land deals with you.

2. I understand supply and demand and I know this: If the demand for tickets was what you said it was, I could not have gotten tix for the Eagles game for less than face...which I could have easily done.[/quote']

I openly acknowledge that game day supply exceeds demand currently. That is why there are empty seats and you can always buy game day tickets for less than face. However, that does not affect the fact that those tickets were already sold from the team's perspective, ie, money in the bank.

I also realize that many people on the ticket list are turning down tickets when offered to them, which makes the list much shorter than the number of names on it.

My point still remains though, that in terms of season ticket sales, demand exceeds supply, even when there are empty seats in the stadium. The skins don't care whether or not you can resell your tickets.

Good points abound though.

[RFKFedEx]

I openly acknowledge that game day supply exceeds demand currently. That is why there are empty seats and you can always buy game day tickets for less than face. However, that does not affect the fact that those tickets were already sold from the team's perspective, ie, money in the bank.

I also realize that many people on the ticket list are turning down tickets when offered to them, which makes the list much shorter than the number of names on it.

My point still remains though, that in terms of season ticket sales, demand exceeds supply, even when there are empty seats in the stadium. The skins don't care whether or not you can resell your tickets.

Good points abound though.

Agreed. However, the turnover rate for the 400 level season tix seems to increase every year. Lets hope that demand will forever exceed supply or we'll be facing local tv blackouts.

:gaintsuck

[Uno Boss]

1. Jones has three Super Bowls.

2. Jones - for all his madness - actually has a decent understanding of football. He played at a D-1 level and is probably knows enough to at least coach a high school team. I don't think he should be a GM' date=' but he is not totally ignorant about the game either.[/quote']

If you think Jerry Jones is any different from Dan Snyder I have some land deals I want to discuss with you....:laugh:

jimmy Jones bought a team that already had players like

Troy Aikman

Micheal Irving

Darryl Johnston

Nate Newton

Ken Norton

Mark stepknowski

Mark Tunie

Bill Bates

Snyder had to build from the ground up....

Joe Gibbs has 3 superbowls but at this point he is not a better coach than the younger Lovie Smith or Sean payton....

my point is only time will tell now that we have a team to build around....

[stuck_N_virginia]

i really had no idea about the new orleans gig....

[RFKFedEx]

If you think Jerry Jones is any different from Dan Snyder I have some land deals I want to discuss with you....:laugh:

jimmy Jones bought a team that already had players like

Troy Aikman

Micheal Irving

Darryl Johnston

Nate Newton

Ken Norton

Mark stepknowski

Mark Tunie

Bill Bates

Snyder had to build from the ground up....

Joe Gibbs has 3 superbowls but at this point he is not a better coach than the younger Lovie Smith or Sean payton....

my point is only time will tell now that we have a team to build around....

Do your research Uno Boss.

Jones took over in 1989. The Cowgirl dynasty of the 90s was constructed entirely under Jerry's watch. Danny has built a marketing machine that has enjoyed only one playoff victory since he has had full control of opperations beginning in 2000. Compare the two owners from a fans perspective.

:dallasuck

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/team.jsp?franchise_id=9

[Duckus]

And most importantly, I re-state, we are all very very lucky that tickets are not twice as much as they are. There is a season ticket waiting list of over 200,000 people. For those of you scoring at home thats a tangible, measured demand that exceeds supply by well over 200%.

You can get tickets for $10 a game. Redskin’s tickets are NOT HARD TO GET! The demand is an illusion.

[scruffylookin]

Do your research Uno Boss.

Jones took over in 1989. The Cowgirl dynasty of the 90s was constructed entirely under Jerry's watch. Danny has built a marketing machine that has enjoyed only one playoff victory since he has had full control of opperations beginning in 2000. Compare the two owners from a fans perspective.

:dallasuck

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/team.jsp?franchise_id=9

Jones deserves credit for hiring Jimmy Johnson and it was Jimmy Johnson who built the Cowboys dynasty.

Jones also deserves a ton of blame for firing (or making life so miserable that he wanted to quit) Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys have been no better than a run of the mill franchise since then (the 95 title was Jimmy's team) who have not won a playoff game in 10 years.

So the one thing Jerry has over Snyder is that Jerry did find a quality head coach/GM who built him a title contender. Snyder has yet to demonstrate that ability. However I sure as hell would hope that if and when Snyder finds a guy like that, he wouldn't pull a "Jerry" and fire the guy.

Also, for all the crap Danny gets for his treatment of Norv or Casserly or even to some degree Marty, nothing he's done compares to the bushleague and classless way Jerry Jones dismissed Tom Landry in 89.

[tonyriggins]

The guy's a cancer. Worst thing that ever happened to the Skins was when he bought the team.

Its good to hear someone else say that I been saying it since 2000. It is abosultely hopeless with Snyder!

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If you think Jerry Jones is any different from Dan Snyder I have some land deals I want to discuss with you....:laugh:

jimmy Jones bought a team that already had players like

Troy Aikman

Micheal Irving

Darryl Johnston

Nate Newton

Ken Norton

Mark stepknowski

Mark Tunie

Bill Bates

Snyder had to build from the ground up....

Joe Gibbs has 3 superbowls but at this point he is not a better coach than the younger Lovie Smith or Sean payton....

my point is only time will tell now that we have a team to build around....

Now, let's wait a second. It's not like when Snyder walked into Redskin Park in May of 1999 and found a pee-wee football team waiting for him.

The team he bought in May of 1999 was pretty darned good. So good in fact that it went 10-6 and won the division.

It featured a still in his prime Brad Johnson, who would only lead a team to a Super Bowl victory three years later. It featured a young Stephen Davis, who would rush for 1300 yards in 4 of the next 5 seasons.

I should also add that April of 1999 produced one of the best Redskins draft of the last decade with Bailey and Jansen.

And it had two top five draft picks waiting for it in the 2000 draft. So, the cupboard was pretty full when he got here.

In comparison, the Cowboys were 1-15 in Jones' first year.

[Thiebear]

Not a fan of Dans....

But he runs his mouth the 1st couple of years and he's the worst ever.

He shuts up and now he's Unsprotsman of the year.

Check out the price of 4 for any Stadium and the Skins are not #1.. This includes parking, drink, dog, seat etc....

The amusement park? Don't care about that...

[Brotherz]

Can somebody tell me the difference between snyder and Jerry Jones..please

Sure, Jones has multiple superbowl rings. :eaglesuck

[Uno Boss]

Do your research Uno Boss.

Jones took over in 1989. The Cowgirl dynasty of the 90s was constructed entirely under Jerry's watch. Danny has built a marketing machine that has enjoyed only one playoff victory since he has had full control of opperations beginning in 2000. Compare the two owners from a fans perspective.

:dallasuck

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/team.jsp?franchise_id=9

According to my reasearch.....

Aikman was the consensus #1 pick in the owners first draft....which means he could not screw that up if he wanted too...

The rest of the list reads as a probowl roster....:doh:

Micheal Irving

Nate Newton

Ken Norton

Mark stepknowski

Mark Tunie

Bill Bates

I was wrong about darryl Johnston who was the all american picked in the second round...

[Uno Boss]

Jones deserves credit for hiring Jimmy Johnson and it was Jimmy Johnson who built the Cowboys dynasty.

Jones also deserves a ton of blame for firing (or making life so miserable that he wanted to quit) Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys have been no better than a run of the mill franchise since then (the 95 title was Jimmy's team) who have not won a playoff game in 10 years.

So the one thing Jerry has over Snyder is that Jerry did find a quality head coach/GM who built him a title contender. Snyder has yet to demonstrate that ability. However I sure as hell would hope that if and when Snyder finds a guy like that, he wouldn't pull a "Jerry" and fire the guy.

Also, for all the crap Danny gets for his treatment of Norv or Casserly or even to some degree Marty, nothing he's done compares to the bushleague and classless way Jerry Jones dismissed Tom Landry in 89.

Thank You

And the other thing people dont realize is that Jerry Jones won all of his titles pre salary cap...

[JimboDaMan]

Trash journalism from a journal that, ironically, is most often found in subway trash bins.

Firstly, there was the run-of-the-mill gouging that we’ve come to expect since his 1999 takeover of the Skins. He raised the already silly parking rate that season ticket holders must pay by 40 percent, to $350 per car per season. He raised ticket prices across the board, but tried to hide the increases by taking costs once worked into the face value, such as county taxes that run hundreds of dollars per season ticket, off of the face value.

OK. That "silly parking rate" is at or below market value most of the time, as a visit to ebay or craigslist will attest. Its been raised in large part because of the need to lease additional parking space from nearby business since the stadium was built with inadequate parking. That situation existed well before Snyder built additional seating in Fedex - at one of his first games as owner he had to publicly issue an apology to parking permit holders who were turned away due to a lack of space.

Though his franchise had for years taken a very public stance against the reselling of season tickets, Snyder inked a deal with StubHub, the king of all scalping outfits, that will bring him millions from the black-market sale of tickets.

Untrue. In fact, Snyder has stated publicly - and I've read it here on ES - that he has no problem with fans reselling individual game seats at reasonable prices. He has taken a stance against the organized profiteering of tickets.

I don't like to pay the high price of my tickets. But there's a waiting list of 100,000 people ready to take them off my hands, so I understand why they are costly. I find it odd that Snyder is crucified for raising prices, yet the deal with Stubhub (which I know nothing about, even after reading the article) proves he sells them below market value.

For the beginning of the 2006 season, FedExField patrons were sold peanuts left over from the 2005 season, in bags labeled with logos of Independence Airlines, which went out of business the first week of January 2006. And via the team’s Web site, he tried selling fans a “Pentagon Flag Hat” to “commemorate Sept. 11” for $23.95 plus shipping. Any profits from the hat sales went to the team. As the season went into the dumper and no-showing became epidemic, fans began complaining on that site about the volume of the artificial crowd noise being pumped through the FedExField public-address system on game days.

I bought a bag of those peanuts. I thought it was kind of funny, and neer bought another bag. Didn't occur to me to write a newspaper article about it.

The Pentagon hat thing sound crappy if true. Although it sounds artfully worded that 'any profits' went to the team, not the same as saying that no part of the sale price was donated.

I dont care about pumping crowd noise as long as it doesnt violate rules. Hardly the only place in the NFL this is done. Stop whining and start making noise.

Snyder created a radio company, Red Zebra, that bought three weak radio stations and broadcast Redskins games over them. The only way this plan could have worked properly is if Snyder had used the same government connections that let him run roughshod over riverside greenery to get new FCC licenses that granted more wattage for his frequencies or better locations for his towers.

Radio coverage is pretty spotty and annoying. Cute that Snyder's a jerk either way - by boosting the stations wattage, or by leaving it weak. And really funny that he's a jerk about improving the coverage by buying the classical music station, I'm sure all five listeners will be distraught.

Hassett’s conclusion: The Redskins under Snyder are a perfect example of how not to run a sports team. Hassett also branded as a myth the fact that Snyder spends more money on players than other owners. He just spends it with more noise.

It took an intensive study to learn that all teams have the same salary cap?

One of his new gigs is as chairman of the board of Six Flags Inc., the theme-park giant.

The whole Six Flags section is strange. Yes, its harsh for New Orleans. But the article even admitted the company was doing poorly and the stock had lost half its value. Snyder has donated millions personally to Katrina relief, he's supposed to run the publicly held company into the ground also, just as charity for Katrina victims who apparently weren't visiting the park even before they didn't live there anymore?

Once again, cute that the "journalist" throws multi-billion-dollar numbers around - that OTHER PEOPLE are making off Katrina - when he can only verify that Snyder made $40,000 and unspecified rental income from housing trailers in a parking lot.

Most unsportsmanlike of all, Snyder has spent another year pulling all these strings from the shadows.

Huh? He's been exceptionally quiet since luring Coach Gibbs from retirement, and this is his most unsportsmanlike action of all??

City Paper. You get what you pay for.

[steve57]

I'm no Jones fan, but didn't he at least play football at the college level? That's at least worth some points in understanding the game -- and who plays it and who coaches it. Snyder's idea of "building" a team is The One With the Most Trading Cards -- Wins!