Oldfan Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Some of their public comments cause me to wonder how well things are going between Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders. After losses, we heard Joe gripe about lack of commitment to the running game, a not very subtle swipe at the guy who was calling the plays. We heard Joe say that Brunell wasn't the problem, but Saunders telling us that receivers were open but Mark wasn't making the reads. Then Joe talked about how we had to adapt the offense to what Mark was good at. Now, Al says that Campbell needs to work hard on his mechanics this offseason, which reflects badly on Joe for giving up three picks on a QB with flawed mechanics and for not having Jason working on those mechanics in 2005. Then Joe comes back saying that Jason's mechanics are no big deal. Joe says that Al is coming back next year. Well, really, what choice does he have? Things are tough enough for Jason Campbell. He doesn't need another change in scheme. Besides, Joe's scheme didn't work very well either. So, I wonder about Joe and Al. I think their working relationship is something we might keep an eye on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Some of their public comments cause me to wonder how well things are going between Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders.After losses, we heard Joe gripe about lack of commitment to the running game, a not very subtle swipe at the guy who was calling the plays. We heard Joe say that Brunell wasn't the problem, but Saunders telling us that receivers were open but Mark wasn't making the reads. Then Joe talked about how we had to adapt the offense to what Mark was good at. Now, Al says that Campbell needs to work hard on his mechanics this offseason, which reflects badly on Joe for giving up three picks on a QB with flawed mechanics and for not having Jason working on those mechanics in 2005. Then Joe comes back saying that Jason's mechanics are no big deal. Joe says that Al is coming back next year. Well, really, what choice does he have? Things are tough enough for Jason Campbell. He doesn't need another change in scheme. Besides, Joe's scheme didn't work very well either. So, I wonder about Joe and Al. I think their working relationship is something we might keep an eye on. I agree with you. Fundamental differences of opinion probably exist between Bugel, Joe and Al... I think Al is correct about Jason. He needs work on his footwork and release - at least that's what I think when I see the guy play. There might not be a whole heck of a lot we can do about his release, if that's the way he has been throwing throughout his entire football life - so I hear. It seems to be getting better. We have been running the ball pretty darn well of late. Mark was never a good choice for this offense and that should have dawned on Gibbs way sooner than it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Redskins Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Please stop with all this over analyzing of everything at Redskins park it is starting to get sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 Please stop with all this over analyzing of everything at Redskins park it is starting to get sickening. This complaint on the content of my thread from a poster with a "No New Threads" tag...amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPortJGibbs89 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I dont think they were on the same page at all at the beginning of the year. I still dont really believe that Joe has given full reigns yet for Saunders to call whatever he wants. I think its a learning process. I think they are finially starting to get on the same page at the end of the year. Joe said hey Al run the damn ball and I will leave you alone. Part of me still wonders if Al will be back. Alot of people think Joe gave up his identity by turning over his offense. Me personally I loved the move and still do. I dont think Joe or the players bought into it at first but I think they are starting to get on the same page finially. I mean hasnt Al helped a little bit with back to back 150+ yard rushing games or had some help in it, the running game has never clicked like this before. If he stays next year I think its a sign of things to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 Chump Bailey--- I think Al is correct about Jason. He needs work on his footwork and release - at least that's what I think when I see the guy play. There might not be a whole heck of a lot we can do about his release, if that's the way he has been throwing throughout his entire football life - so I hear. I think football coaches are spilt on whether or not to work with the guy on mechanics. Pitching coaches do it in baseball. Flawed mechanics lower the ceiling on the QBs potential, though. At least, one would think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLusby Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Besides, Joe's scheme didn't work very well either. It got us to the second round of playoffs last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPortJGibbs89 Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 It got us to the second round of playoffs last year!No defense got us to the second round of the playoffs last year and almost to the NFC championship if Rogers could catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 If JC's mechanics are that big of an issue with Al, he should have addressed that prior to joining the team. I'm certain he watched game film of him and Brunell so he knew what he'd be working with. He knew this was the QB of the future and could have worked on mechanics through camps, preseason and right up until JC took the field. I disagree with your statement that Joe's scheme didn't work very well. It worked fine and got the Skins through the first round of the playoffs. The scheme only needed tweaking. The offensive personnel was set for this season except for needing a blocking TE, a #2 WR and OL depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriangleSkinsFan Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Being in NC I have watched Phillip Rivers play with that screwy release. PR has played very well this season WITH the screwy release. Jason Campbell doesn't need to change his throwing motion IMHO. His footwork could be better but just about any QB with his level of experience will have the same type of sdjustments to make. Yes the team made it to the to the 2nd round of the playoffs but I think it was more in spite of the O scheme rathert han becasue of it. It's kind of like saying that Rex Grossman has gotten the Bears to where they are now. True, but not really, the Bears are doing as well as they are despite Rex Grossman, not becasue of him. Just about everyone can agree that the Skin's O's predictability and lack of creativity was the major downfall of the team at the playoff level last year. With that said though, I think JG did a great job considring who he had at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 they're are growing together as coaches, learning to work together yes, Joe has forced Saunder's hand to go from a balanced attack to a run first attack but Saunder's passing routes work, receivers are open, it's just gonna take time for Campbell to trust the system and release the ball before receivers make their break it's not something a player can learn overnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
str8jacket Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Being a difficult season and all i definitely think there are some disgruntled coaches. But i feel that from top to bottom in the organization that nobody is on the same page. They need to work together. It takes a team to build a team and to win as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennisacerg Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 It got us to the second round of playoffs last year! true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I disagree with your statement that Joe's scheme didn't work very well. It worked fine and got the Skins through the first round of the playoffs. The scheme only needed tweaking. The offensive personnel was set for this season except for needing a blocking TE, a #2 WR and OL depth. Actually the offense got us nothing. 120 TOTAL YARDS against Tampa. 95 yards rushing 25 yards passing, that isn't getting it done. What we really needed though was a QB with experience who has some good years left. Brunell hasn't been very good for 5-6 years. If we had not signed anyone but Drew Brees we'd be in the playoffs right now. No second receiver, no major waste on the defense all we really needed was a good QB. I think it's been so long since we had one that people forgot what they look like. Most teams don't have 2-3 above average receivers. We do but it makes little difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
computerclone Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Please stop with all this over analyzing of everything at Redskins park it is starting to get sickening. I agree IM am SICK of people CREATING Perceptions... Basicly these people cant possibly be even close enough with spectulations because they arent in the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubcu Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 This complaint on the content of my thread from a poster with a "No New Threads" tag...amusing. I agree with him.... Not like this topic has not been brought up 10k times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underwater Ally Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I agree with you. Fundamental differences of opinion probably exist between Bugel, Joe and Al...I think Al is correct about Jason. He needs work on his footwork and release - at least that's what I think when I see the guy play. There might not be a whole heck of a lot we can do about his release, if that's the way he has been throwing throughout his entire football life - so I hear. It seems to be getting better. We have been running the ball pretty darn well of late. Mark was never a good choice for this offense and that should have dawned on Gibbs way sooner than it did. Remember that Gibbs was the only head coach in the league who considered Jason Campbell to be a first round calibre draft pick. Everyone else thought he was a second rounder because of the amount of time it would take to get him up to par with NFL standards. Like with Brunell, Gibbs' affinity for certain players seems to be badly clouding his judgement. One thing I've noticed right off the bat with Campbell is that he practically kneels down under center with one knee lower than the other instead of crouching with his knees level. Its absolutely inexcusable that Gibbs and co. didn't start working on things like this during his rookie season. Lets hope Saunders prevails and can keep this ship from sinking alltogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 For those of you who didn't care for my topic...thanks for your input. I'll try to do better next time (yawn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 For those of you, who didn't like hearing my observation that the Gibbs offensive scheme really wasn't a success in 2004 and 2005, I'll remind you that our defense was outstanding both years and we still only managed a .500 record. I'll point out also that, except for four or five games in the first half of 2005, when single-covered Santana Moss ran wild, the offense has been unable to generate a consistently efficient passing game. Joe Gibbs had no choice but to run the ball in the 2005 stretch run and, luckily, we could do it against rush defenses that included the likes of the 2005 Rams, Cards and an injury-depleted Giants squad. Your "it was good enough to get us to the playoffs last year" argument just doesn't hold water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 Underwater Ally --- One thing I've noticed right off the bat with Campbell is that he practically kneels down under center with one knee lower than the other instead of crouching with his knees level. You know, I noticed that Philip Rivers does the same thing. I'm wondering if this is some kind of new technique in the exchange between center and QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelarkascend1ng Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 i really don't think there's a huge division here or the potential for one. joe and al are fine and will be great working together in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 i really don't think there's a huge division here or the potential for one. joe and al are fine and will be great working together in the future. I hope you're right. Do you have a reason for your optimism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 You know, I noticed that Philip Rivers does the same thing. I'm wondering if this is some kind of new technique in the exchange between center and QB. His stance under center seemed much more 'normal' in last week's game. I'm not sure if that was a conscious switch, or due to the taller Center. Maybe Rabach needs some platform shoes- after all, JC is practically 6'5". I agree, in previous weeks I was concerned about the refs accidentally calling a kneel-down. :laugh: As far as issues between Joe and Al- I wouldn't worry. I'm sure our GM will resolve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sellersfan Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I think we need to look at both coaches opinions here. Gibbs has a big man crush for Brunell. But even he could not justify leaving him in there after half the season was gone. The heat was on, and I am sure it started with Saunders. Remember the pre season when we running "vanilla plays" not to give away what we planning to do in the real season? Well the boring offense continued because Brunell was limited in his abilities. Saunders pushed for the Qb change, and finally got it. Now JC has loads of potential, and I am sure he would agree with Saunders, that he needs to work hard this off season to take himself to the next level. Lets not forget JC is pretty green. He is relying more on physical ability right now than game experience. He will be busy this offseason, and it will pay off for us in 07. HTTR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Some of their public comments cause me to wonder how well things are going between Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders.After losses, we heard Joe gripe about lack of commitment to the running game, a not very subtle swipe at the guy who was calling the plays. We heard Joe say that Brunell wasn't the problem, but Saunders telling us that receivers were open but Mark wasn't making the reads. Then Joe talked about how we had to adapt the offense to what Mark was good at. Now, Al says that Campbell needs to work hard on his mechanics this offseason, which reflects badly on Joe for giving up three picks on a QB with flawed mechanics and for not having Jason working on those mechanics in 2005. Then Joe comes back saying that Jason's mechanics are no big deal. Joe says that Al is coming back next year. Well, really, what choice does he have? Things are tough enough for Jason Campbell. He doesn't need another change in scheme. Besides, Joe's scheme didn't work very well either. So, I wonder about Joe and Al. I think their working relationship is something we might keep an eye on. This could be because JC was essentially the #3 QB for most of the season which means that he did not get the reps in practice that Brunell and Collins did, which could make any QB rusty. Same goes for last year, he was #3 all of last year which severely limited his practice with any sort of 1st team offense. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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