Enough Apologies (column on Pope's comments and reaction to them)

[Larry Brown #43]

Washington Post column

Already, angry Palestinian militants have assaulted seven West Bank and Gaza churches, destroying two of them. In Somalia, gunmen shot dead an elderly Italian nun. Radical clerics from Qatar to Qom have called, variously, for a "day of anger" or for worshipers to "hunt down" the pope and his followers. From Turkey to Malaysia, Muslim politicians have condemned the pope and called his apology "insufficient." And all of this because Benedict XVI, speaking at the University of Regensburg, quoted a Byzantine emperor who, more than 600 years ago, called Islam a faith "spread by the sword." We've been here before, of course. Similar protests were sparked last winter by cartoon portrayals of Muhammad in the Danish press.

(Click link above for full story.)

[rictus58]

Well, Until muslims apologize for wanting to blow Israel off the map, I could not care less what they are angry about.

[Larry Brown #43]

Well, Until muslims apologize for wanting to blow Israel off the map, I could care less what they are angry about.

That's more or less the gist of the column. Except not only because of the Israel thing, but Islamic vitriol against the West in general.

[Teller]

Thanks for posting LB43. Just for the record, I'm still waiting for an apology for the 3,000 Americans killed on 9/11 too. Until they find a way to make that right (which will never happen), I could give a damn about their feelings.

[chomerics]

Thanks for posting LB43. Just for the record, I'm still waiting for an apology for the 3,000 Americans killed on 9/11 too. Until they find a way to make that right (which will never happen), I could give a damn about their feelings.

Why are Muslims responsible for the actions of a lunatic? did I hear people complaining that Christians should apologize for the Oak. City bombing by McVeigh? Hell no. Holding a religion responsible for the actions of radicals is not the correct way to look at the situation.

As for the pope, what do people expect from a Hitler Youth? As for the Muslims, this was expected as well. Remember the cartoon violence?

Here is the situation, this war is one that can be won on simple values. Our culture is better than their culture, simple as that. As long as we continue to "bring the fight to them" and keep out troops as human targets in Iraq, the situation will get worse and deteriorate. Let them hate each other like they have for the past 1200 years, there is no need to be the meat in the middle of a hate sandwich.

[rictus58]

Why are Muslims responsible for the actions of a lunatic?

They aren't. But all Christians aren't responsible for the words of the Pope either. It's time to hold them to the same standards they hold the west to.

Let them hate each other like they have for the past 1200 years, there is no need to be the meat in the middle of a hate sandwich.

Except now, they are bringing their hate to the west. You can't just ignore the situation and hope it goes away.

[Teller]

Why are Muslims responsible for the actions of a lunatic? did I hear people complaining that Christians should apologize for the Oak. City bombing by McVeigh? Hell no. Holding a religion responsible for the actions of radicals is not the correct way to look at the situation.

It's posts like this that on rare occasions make me consider an extended vacation from ES.

There is absolutely no comparison between McVeigh and Islamic terrorism; save for the fact that both kill/killed innocent civilians.

McVeigh was not attempting to spread Christianity in the United States (which like it or not is ALREADY majority Christian), and did not bomb the federal building in the name of Jesus Christ. Nor was he trying to "kill the infidels" who didn't follow in his way of "religious" thinking. His grudge was against the government, pure and simple.

Please tell me what the positive contribution of Islam on a global basis is in this day and age? Tell me how that outweighs the terrorism and violence inflicted worldwide by people claiming to be Muslims on a daily basis. I really would like to hear your explanation. I would love to be able to admit I'm wrong about this, but I'm just not seeing it.

As for the pope, what do people expect from a Hitler Youth? As for the Muslims, this was expected as well. Remember the cartoon violence?

So if people of a given religion are offended by words or pictures, it's OK for them to respond with violence? Cool. Because as a Christian, I'm offended by your post. Where do you live again?

I can't believe you can justify murder and fire-bombing over pictures and words. Maybe this time I'll finally learn my lesson and stop trying to have rational discussions with you.

[nelms]

Islam: a religion of peace my ass.

[herrmag]

The quote:

called Islam a faith "spread by the sword."

The reaction:

angry Palestinian militants have assaulted seven West Bank and Gaza churches, destroying two of them.

In Somalia, gunmen shot dead an elderly Italian nun.

Radical clerics from Qatar to Qom have called, variously, for a "day of anger" or for worshipers to "hunt down" the pope and his followers.

Any questions?

[Teller]

Any questions?

Yes. How much clearer does it have to be before some people get it????

[Sarge]

**** 'em.

The entire ****hole known as the middle east should drop to their knees and thank allah I'm not in charge of this country

[nelms]

I can't believe you can justify murder and fire-bombing over pictures and words. Maybe this time I'll finally learn my lesson and stop trying to have rational discussions with you.

Just put him on your ignore list. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop you from seeing his ridiculous posts when someone is quoting him. Sometimes I can't help myself but to read his crap. It's like rubber necking at a traffic accident.

[SkinsD]

Oh yeah, these idiots are really proving their religion isn't one of violence when they shoot a nun in the back. She forgave them as she died, maybe they should sit and think about that for awhile.

[nelms]

**** 'em.

The entire ****hole known as the middle east should drop to their knees and thank allah I'm not in charge of this country

:laugh:

President Sarge. It has a nice ring to it. :applause: Can I be your Secretary of Defense? :laugh:

[btfoom]

**** 'em.

The entire ****hole known as the middle east should drop to their knees and thank allah I'm not in charge of this country

You already have my vote.

[Goaldeje]

Why are Muslims responsible for the actions of a lunatic? did I hear people complaining that Christians should apologize for the Oak. City bombing by McVeigh? Hell no. Holding a religion responsible for the actions of radicals is not the correct way to look at the situation.

As for the pope, what do people expect from a Hitler Youth? As for the Muslims, this was expected as well. Remember the cartoon violence?

Here is the situation, this war is one that can be won on simple values. Our culture is better than their culture, simple as that. As long as we continue to "bring the fight to them" and keep out troops as human targets in Iraq, the situation will get worse and deteriorate. Let them hate each other like they have for the past 1200 years, there is no need to be the meat in the middle of a hate sandwich.

So, despite the fact that they attacked us on our own soil, we're suposed to sit back and ignore them? If we ignore them, Uncle Chom, you promise they'll go away, right? :doh:

[chomerics]

It's posts like this that on rare occasions make me consider an extended vacation from ES.

Really? Why? Do you not see the similarity between your post, and do you not see how radical Christianity has been used in the same light? Do I need all the Christians to come out and protest abortion clinic bombings?

There are similarities in ALL religious fanaticism, and Muslim's don't have a monopoly on killing people in the name of religion. This is something almost every Christian has a problem with. They have absolutely no problem castigating out an entire religion, yet when it is pointed out that THEIR religion has done the same thing in the past they say "well that does not represent my views".

Have you ever thought that the radical terrorists who attacked us on 9-11 do not have the same views as all Muslims? you post implied ALL of Islam owes us an apology because of 9-11, yet you do not hold the same standards for any other religion, and that is a problem with the religious right.

There is absolutely no comparison between McVeigh and Islamic terrorism; save for the fact that both kill/killed innocent civilians.

They were both radical theologians who are on the extreme right hand side of the political spectrum. Just because you can not see the similarities does not mean they are not similar. Both of them:

1. Attacked a US building with a bomb

2. Both killed innocent civilians

3. Both belonged to extreme right wing ideologies

4. Both were trained by the US

5. Both believed in their religion

McVeigh was not attempting to spread Christianity in the United States (which like it or not is ALREADY majority Christian), and did not bomb the federal building in the name of Jesus Christ. Nor was he trying to "kill the infidels" who didn't follow in his way of "religious" thinking. His grudge was against the government, pure and simple.

And you think the goal of the Muslims that attacked the US was to spread Muslim theology? No, they attacked us because they hate our government, and it was our government's policies that effected them. they used Islam as a front for propaganda, just as the religious right uses Christianity as a front to attain their power and hidden agendas. The problem is not that we are as extreme as them, but the problem is that people, like yourself, hold an entire religion to the actions of a few. When it is done to you, you flip out.

You stated, and I will quote. . .

I'm still waiting for an apology for the 3,000 Americans killed on 9/11 too. Until they find a way to make that right (which will never happen), I could give a damn about their feelings.

Since when are Muslims responsible for the actions of a fanatical group?

Please tell me what the positive contribution of Islam on a global basis is in this day and age? Tell me how that outweighs the terrorism and violence inflicted worldwide by people claiming to be Muslims on a daily basis. I really would like to hear your explanation. I would love to be able to admit I'm wrong about this, but I'm just not seeing it.

i never said the good outweighs the bad, and in fact, I think Islamic dogmas are the WORST in terms of a net benefit to society. I think their religion has hampered growth in both economic and cultural areas, while professing the faith of Islam to be the only religion.

Think of Catholicism 1200 years after it was founded, and you see many MANY similarities between the two. Maybe it is an evolutionary inevitability with religion, personally I don't think so, but there are a lot of similarities between the two dogmas. About the only different thing is who they target for hate, but that is all.

And that is the reason I am not religious. The hidden agenda of hate in every religion (well, except Buddhism) always rears its ugly head when people get power. If more people could understand this, maybe there would be a possibility of winning the war. As long as it is "us against Islam", then we are destined to never make progress.

So if people of a given religion are offended by words or pictures, it's OK for them to respond with violence? Cool. Because as a Christian, I'm offended by your post. Where do you live again?

I can't believe you can justify murder and fire-bombing over pictures and words. Maybe this time I'll finally learn my lesson and stop trying to have rational discussions with you.

Yes, please show me WHERE I justified ANYTHING like that. Go back and read my post hog, not only is that NOT my opinion, but it is an entire fictional straw man you impose on my beliefs to avoid actually debating the topic.

You castigated out Islam as the problem with 9-11, and it is not. It is perverted people who are using Islam as a propaganda tool, in much the way the Christians used the bible as a propaganda tool throughout the history of the religion. There is not much difference in belief structure, or system between the tow, only in who they believe in. They are both far right ideologies, and both Christians and Islam has their terrorists and hate mongers (think KKK). I am only pointing out that your post was wrong, and your subsequent post was a joke which represented nothing about my beliefs and/or thoughts. Maybe you will get it right one day. . .

[chomerics]

So, despite the fact that they attacked us on our own soil, we're suposed to sit back and ignore them? If we ignore them, Uncle Chom, you promise they'll go away, right? :doh:

Who says to ignore them, we attacked them in Afghanistan, but we FAILED TO FINISH THE JOB!!!!!

Why is Bin Laden still alive? Why did the president say "I'm don;t know where OBL is and I am not really concerned about him"?

If anything it is the PRESIDENT you should ask the question to, because I want to get the evil SOB's.

[chomerics]

They aren't. But all Christians aren't responsible for the words of the Pope either. It's time to hold them to the same standards they hold the west to.

Says who? It is expected in this day and age to have radical Muslims flip out over any utterance of Islam is bad, did you expect anything else?

The question isn't to "ignore them", the question is how do you change things. As of right now, we have made things 100 times worse with our actions. There are now an exponentially growing faction of Muslims that hate us, and this is a direct result of the war in Iraq.

Where before it was a radical sect of no more then 20,000 or so, it is now a large number, probably about 10% that has turned towards the radical view. We opened pandora's box, now we have to pay the piper. . .

Except now, they are bringing their hate to the west. You can't just ignore the situation and hope it goes away.

Who is saying to ignore it, I stated that once we leave, all teh hate will be focused on each other, you know that as well as I do.

[zoony]

1. Attacked a US building with a bomb

2. Both killed innocent civilians

3. Both belonged to extreme right wing ideologies

4. Both were trained by the US

5. Both believed in their religion

.

:rotflmao:

I've seen it all :laugh:

Let's compare Hitler and Mickey Mouse next, shall we?

1. Both appeared on Black & White TV.

2. Both had legions of followers.

3. Both had youth clubs

4. Both were hated by millions, but also loved by millions

Therefore, Mickey Mouse = Adolf Hitler :dunce:

Chom... give it up bro.

....

[rictus58]

Who is saying to ignore it, I stated that once we leave, all teh hate will be focused on each other, you know that as well as I do.

This is completly retarded. That like saying, pull out the police and let the gang members kill themselves off. :doh:

Where before it was a radical sect of no more then 20,000 or so, it is now a large number, probably about 10% that has turned towards the radical view. We opened pandora's box, now we have to pay the piper. . .

please provide some of your sources for this "20,000 or so"

[Teller]

Great post zoon. That's about the extent of his rationalization. And if you disagree, you're wrong. It's not a difference of opinion, every word he utters is concrete indisputable fact.

[Burgold]

The quote:

The reaction:

Any questions?

Great use of the multi-quote, hermag. I was thinking of that myself. It's ludicrous. How can these look in the mirror?

Someone from the West-- Boy, these Islamic radicals are violent.

Al Jazeera -- The West is calling Islams violent.

Islam Spokesperson -- I am deeply offended by these remarks. We are a peace loving people.

Islam Cleric -- How dare they call us a violent people. Kill them all.

Islam Civilian 1 -- Kill them all? Is that a metaphor?

Islam Civilian 2 -- No, that is a dictate from Allah!

Islam Civilian 1 -- Are you sure?

Islam Civilian 2 -- He is questioning Allah. Kill him. Kill him.

Reporter -- Riots broke out and the death toll is still rising. All this violence seems to be part of an extensive effort to prove how non violent true Islam really is.

[nelms]

:rotflmao:

I've seen it all :laugh:

Let's compare Hitler and Mickey Mouse next, shall we?

1. Both appeared on Black & White TV.

2. Both had legions of followers.

3. Both had youth clubs

4. Both were hated by millions, but also loved by millions

Therefore, Mickey Mouse = Adolf Hitler :dunce:

Chom... give it up bro.

....

Absolutely 100% :owned:

[hkHog]

Why are Muslims responsible for the actions of a lunatic? did I hear people complaining that Christians should apologize for the Oak. City bombing by McVeigh? Hell no. Holding a religion responsible for the actions of radicals is not the correct way to look at the situation.

As for the pope, what do people expect from a Hitler Youth? As for the Muslims, this was expected as well. Remember the cartoon violence?

Here is the situation, this war is one that can be won on simple values. Our culture is better than their culture, simple as that. As long as we continue to "bring the fight to them" and keep out troops as human targets in Iraq, the situation will get worse and deteriorate. Let them hate each other like they have for the past 1200 years, there is no need to be the meat in the middle of a hate sandwich.

Sure, just stand by and wait to be killed. Good idea!