pittsburgh with less total yards then skins

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

i guess i didn't bold enough the first time, so here you go.

Quite similiar = they both TEND to not make mistakes.

There is a differencce between saying they are quite similiar and exactly the same, and hopefully, I don't need to expand on the two .

[Major Harris]

Challenging Gibbs will make you look foolish. He proves it time and time again. This offense is taking time to learn and people are acting all pissy because of it. Premature crying is not worth it. This is a wait and see process.. let the players learn.

i'm not challenging gibbs. i'm challenging all the serious homers who are pretending like brunell isn't completely stinking up the joint.

I will still take the beer though.

any time.

Preseason.. Aaron Brooks looked decent in the preseason. QB rating of 90.8.

Now, in the games that count.. you know called the regular season. His QB rating is 58.0

Preseason IS preseason.. that holds no weight.

i really wish people would stop comparing us to the raiders. it holds no weight. i know it doesn't mean anything on the surface, but if you look deeper, you will see that our preseason struggles mirror our regular season struggles.

[Major Harris]

Quite similiar = they both TEND to not make mistakes.

There is a differencce between saying they are quite similiar and exactly the same, and hopefully, I don't need to expand on the two .

well, i guess if by mistakes you only mean INT's, then maybe you're correct. but when i think of mistakes, i think of not seeing open receivers, not stepping up in the pocket, and instead running into sacks, and NOT looking downfield when scrambling, instead, putting your head down so you take away the threat of the pass so the defense no longer has to respect it.

[XxSpearheadxX]

I watched both.

I honestly don't care what you think of my opinion.

The fact is people here hate Brunell. They will use stats and throw out others to make him look bad. These people are so full of ****, it is unbelievable.

I am not saying Brunell is the best, he is not. But he is the best we have. Apparently he did a damn good job last year, but we are all willing to forget after 2 games.

My point is, it IS 2 GAMES. How bout Jake Delhomme? The Panthers are 0-2, bench him? And Big Ben did not have a good game to start the year for him...bench him? What about Culpepper? Time to go?

None of those guys were nearly as bad as Brunell in my opinion - and it isn't that he was bad - he was horrible. All he seems to do is try to not mess up.

If I could figure out why he can't successfully throw 15 yard outs to wide open players - it would be okay. If I could figure out why he couldn't throw a 3 step drop - I'd be okay.

I can't, and he's old and getting worse - he is a backup QB who has had few good games here and there - a few screen passes that go for 80, a few swing passes inside the 5 that give him touchdowns.

Jake Delhomme did something Brunell couldn't do - manage an offense with one reciever and no running game - against a defense as good as Tampas was - yet they lit up the bears in the playoffs and we won at the Bucs with a statistical anomally.

It is embarassing, no other team has a QB even close to as bad as Brunell has been in my opinion. He is really bad and everyone in the world has seen it for 3 years on and off except for a handful of Skins fans.

[Pool Shark]

I watched both.

I honestly don't care what you think of my opinion.

The fact is people here hate Brunell. They will use stats and throw out others to make him look bad. These people are so full of ****, it is unbelievable.

I am not saying Brunell is the best, he is not. But he is the best we have. Apparently he did a damn good job last year, but we are all willing to forget after 2 games.

My point is, it IS 2 GAMES. How bout Jake Delhomme? The Panthers are 0-2, bench him? And Big Ben did not have a good game to start the year for him...bench him? What about Culpepper? Time to go?

It's not just 2 games. Throw out the preseason and its still 6-8 straight games that Brunell has looked horrible.

Show me some stats that make him look good then. Show me the stats that we are throwing out.

[XxSpearheadxX]

well, i guess if by mistakes you only mean INT's, then maybe you're correct. but when i think of mistakes, i think of not seeing open receivers, not stepping up in the pocket, and instead running into sacks, and NOT looking downfield when scrambling, instead, putting your head down so you take away the threat of the pass so the defense no longer has to respect it.

:point2sky :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :point2sky

[The Dude]

Roethlisberger NEVER won a game for the Steelers he just didn't make mistakes.

Hmm, I'm guessing you missed the 2006 AFC Championship game.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

None of those guys were nearly as bad as Brunell in my opinion - and it isn't that he was bad - he was horrible. All he seems to do is try to not mess up.

If I could figure out why he can't successfully throw 15 yard outs to wide open players - it would be okay. If I could figure out why he couldn't throw a 3 step drop - I'd be okay.

I can't, and he's old and getting worse - he is a backup QB who has had few good games here and there - a few screen passes that go for 80, a few swing passes inside the 5 that give him touchdowns.

Jake Delhomme did something Brunell couldn't do - manage an offense with one reciever and no running game - against a defense as good as Tampas was - yet they lit up the bears in the playoffs and we won at the Bucs with a statistical anomally.

It is embarassing, no other team has a QB even close to as bad as Brunell has been in my opinion. He is really bad and everyone in the world has seen it for 3 years on and off except for a handful of Skins fans.

So you would take the following over Mark:

J.P. Losman

Drew Bledsoe

Chris Simms

Marc Bulger

Alex Smith

Kerry Collins

Jake Plummer

David Carr

Charlie Frye

I don't see it. I'd rather have MB than any one of those guys.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Hmm, I'm guessing you missed the 2006 AFC Championship game.

I did forget it :doh: Sorry .

So would you really say that MB didn't win the Dallas game?

[Pool Shark]

I would even argue that most of Brunell's "good stats" from last year came from Moss and Portis YAC on screens and short dump offs. I have no stats to offer right now, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Teams now realize that we can't throw downfield. They blitz everyone and keep a couple people 10 yards deep. They know Brunell can't throw with someone in his face and by the time his lobs get to those short dump offs, the guys 10 yards out are all over them

[Pool Shark]

So you would take the following over Mark:

J.P. Losman

Drew Bledsoe

Chris Simms

Marc Bulger

Alex Smith

Kerry Collins

Jake Plummer

David Carr

Charlie Frye

I don't see it. I'd rather have MB than any one of those guys.

then you need to take the Homer glasses off

[praise_gibbs]

Preseason holds weight in physical assesment of players. If a player runs slow in the preseason he will run slow in the regular season.

From the physical degradation an ineptitude of Brunell - it is quite fine to assume the preseason was a prediction of the current state of affairs behind center.

Preseason holds no weight in the context that it was used. IMO, preseason is used mainly to see your rookies in real-play action. To see what your back-ups are capable of doing. Not generally your starters.

If you watch the tapes, you will see that the WR's are not getting much seperation. They are being blanketed by, so far, two decent secondaries. And to that, the poor play by our o-line..AND a new offense = terrible play.

Am I saying that the WRs are to blame for our teams faults? No.

But, what I am saying is that this WHOLE TEAM is learning a new offense. I think they are all trying to do too much at once instead of taking their time. The whole offense is trying to be fast paced when they should take it play by play. Slow down and learn the offense. Plays WILL be made then and only then.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

then you need to take the Homer glasses off

Alright, please name which guys you would prefer and why....

[praise_gibbs]

i'm not challenging gibbs. i'm challenging all the serious homers who are pretending like brunell isn't completely stinking up the joint.

I know Brunell is playing bad. That is obvious. I also know that this whole offense does not look good. Cooley can't catch.. our o-line can't block..Betts can't run..Sellers can't block...WR's are not generally 'open'.

any time.

i really wish people would stop comparing us to the raiders. it holds no weight. i know it doesn't mean anything on the surface, but if you look deeper, you will see that our preseason struggles mirror our regular season struggles.

It was said about the preseason.. I talked about the Raiders because they were damned good in the preseason.. 4-1 to be exact. Now, they are just about last in every category imaginable. Good team can look bad, bad teams can look good, and average teams will look average.

Welcome to this average team until we learn this offense.

[Pool Shark]

Alright, please name which guys you would prefer and why....

Chis Simms and Kerry Collins are probably the only 2 guys on that list that are playing worse than Brunell right now. Chris Simms has played 2 of the best defenses in the NFL in his first two games and he still has more yards than Mark.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Chis Simms and Kerry Collins are probably the only 2 guys on that list that are playing worse than Brunell right now. Chris Simms has played 2 of the best defenses in the NFL in his first two games and he still has more yards than Mark.

So please say why you prefer the others...case by case.

[Pool Shark]

It was said about the preseason.. I talked about the Raiders because they were damned good in the preseason.. 4-1 to be exact. Now, they are just about last in every category imaginable. Good team can look bad, bad teams can look good, and average teams will look average.

Yeah but despite that your starting QB should still be able to make plays and look like he still belongs in the NFL. The total outcome of the game might not matter because teams aren't playing their best guys all the time and not using the full extent of their offenses and defenses. But that doesn't mean you still can't evaluate your starting QB

[praise_gibbs]

Chis Simms and Kerry Collins are probably the only 2 guys on that list that are playing worse than Brunell right now. Chris Simms has played 2 of the best defenses in the NFL in his first two games and he still has more yards than Mark.

Chris Simms has thrown in a HELL OF A LOT more. 82 times to Brunells 61.

Chris Simms has 0 TDs and 6 INTS. Mark Brunell has 0TDS and 1 INT.

Simms completetion percentage is lower. 54.9 to MB's 57.4

Yards/att is lower. 5.4 to MB's 5.9

Rating is lower as well. 40.0 to MB's 67.7

[Pool Shark]

How bout by QB rating? I could do more like yards, completion percentage, TD's, team record but it would all just get jumbled up.

David Carr 123.7

J. Losman 88.2

M. Bulger 77.0

Alex Smith 93.5

You know how pointless this is? We are comparing whether Brunell is the 4th worst QB to the 8th worst QB. Point is, he is still a bad QB, easily in the bottom half of the league

[praise_gibbs]

Yeah but despite that your starting QB should still be able to make plays and look like he still belongs in the NFL. The total outcome of the game might not matter because teams aren't playing their best guys all the time and not using the full extent of their offenses and defenses. But that doesn't mean you still can't evaluate your starting QB

Gibbs knows what he has. There is nothing to evaluate. He has a QB who is not a game changer. He manages the game and does not make many mistakes. He would rather throw the ball away instead of forcing a play to happen and throw an INT. We have been in every game, score-wise, so far. He is doing that much. New offense.. new WRs.. new guy calling the plays.. Patients brother, patients.

[Pool Shark]

Chris Simms has thrown in a HELL OF A LOT more. 82 times to Brunells 61.

Chris Simms has 0 TDs and 6 INTS. Mark Brunell has 0TDS and 1 INT.

Simms completetion percentage is lower. 54.9 to MB's 57.4

Yards/att is lower. 5.4 to MB's 5.9

Rating is lower as well. 40.0 to MB's 67.7

uh...thanks for proving my point for me. Those were the 2 guys I said I would not pick. Chris Simms is a 2nd or 3rd year QB with fewer weapons, a banged up O-line, and he played 2 of the best defenses in the league

[praise_gibbs]

How bout by QB rating? I could do more like yards, completion percentage, TD's, team record but it would all just get jumbled up.

David Carr 123.7

J. Losman 88.2

M. Bulger 77.0

Alex Smith 93.5

You know how pointless this is? We are comparing whether Brunell is the 4th worst QB to the 8th worst QB. Point is, he is still a bad QB, easily in the bottom half of the league

Ok.. How do our WR's rank with the rest of the NFL. How about RB? TE's? Defense?

OUR TEAM is a BAD team at this point. Until we learn to slow the play down and learn this offense we will be bad to average at best.

[praise_gibbs]

Chis Simms and Kerry Collins are probably the only 2 guys on that list that are playing worse than Brunell right now. Chris Simms has played 2 of the best defenses in the NFL in his first two games and he still has more yards than Mark.

uh...thanks for proving my point for me. Those were the 2 guys I said I would not pick. Chris Simms is a 2nd or 3rd year QB with fewer weapons, a banged up O-line, and he played 2 of the best defenses in the league

Look at everything else though. You do not choose a guy because he has more yards. "I am going to draft this guy because he has more yards but he throws 3 INTS per game." Do you even see how foolish that sounds?

You tried comparing Chris Simms to Brunell and I proved that wrong. Your 'point' was non-existent.

[Pool Shark]

Gibbs knows what he has. There is nothing to evaluate. He has a QB who is not a game changer. He manages the game and does not make many mistakes. He would rather throw the ball away instead of forcing a play to happen and throw an INT. We have been in every game, score-wise, so far. He is doing that much. New offense.. new WRs.. new guy calling the plays.. Patients brother, patients.

I was talking about me being able to evaluate how bad Brunell has been in the last 10+ games including the preseason.

You can't say he doesn't make mistakes. He was missing wide open players with no pressure. He was running into sacks. He had happy feet the whole game. He threw the ball away with no pressure.

Did you even watch the game Sunday night? We were not in that game score-wise. We weren't anywhere close in any other aspect of the game. We would have gotten killed if they didn't drop so many balls. Our only points on offense came off a drive full of Cowboy penalties (including a couple 15 yarders) and after our D got a big turnover.

[Pool Shark]

Look at everything else though. You do not choose a guy because he has more yards. "I am going to draft this guy because he has more yards but he throws 3 INTS per game." Do you even see how foolish that sounds?

You tried comparing Chris Simms to Brunell and I proved that wrong. Your 'point' was non-existent.

Ok, now you need to stop putting words in my mouth. I did not compare Chris Simms to Brunell until you threw his stats out there after I said he was one of the few QB's in the league I would NOT take over Brunell. I merely stated that Chris Simms played against better defenses and had less weapons.

I did not choose Simms. I don't know what you are smoking, but please pass a little to the left