ntotoro Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I suspect that Eric Rudolph bombed up until his capture in 2003. Any bombing or killing of abortion clinics qualifies as terrorism (as do killings by organizations that target a specific population) imho. You can suspect all you want, but the guy was found looking for food in dumpsters when he was arrested. That doesn't sound like a guy with the means to carry on some sinister plot. Supposedly, his last bombing was in 1998. I do consider bombing abortion clinics to be a terrorist act, however don't have a timeline for any. It still doesn't give Islamic grups a free pass and I'm sure the Feds have any eye for any activity at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Just so that I am totally clear, you guys support a complete isolationist strategy for the US? And you think it will protect the US and keep militant Muslims (and other factions) from blowing us up?BTW - you want to know who the National Alliance blames for 9/11? Isreal's Mossad and the US's unconditional and biased support of and policy towards Israel. Yep, those are the people in our country. They aren't Muslim but they sure as hell aren't on our side either. Everyone seeing the spin? No one in this thread ever mentioned isolationism. Ever. Just that we should monitor people who are here on visas and possibly stop issuing visas to nations that support or harbor terror... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Pleas reread your post. You are saying that an American citizen who wants to monitor non-American citizens is worse for this country, and does more damage to this country than terrorists! Please explain this position with facts. :doh: .:applause: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 People like you are much more scarier than the so-called "Terrorist" and so much worst for this country. There's a reason why our country has gone from the most loved, to the most hated. When was the last time Sarge set up an IED or sawed off the head of an "infidel" while screaming "God is great?" What you're saying is you want to let non-citizens roam freely around the country? 17 Egyptians disappeared. Vanished. 17. You have no problem with that? That is the whole point of this. Yet another pretty attempt at sensationalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Just so that I am totally clear, you guys support a complete isolationist strategy for the US? And you think it will protect the US and keep militant Muslims (and other factions) from blowing us up? Whoever said anything about isolationism? The only thing said was keeping tabs on non-citizens so things like this don't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 You can suspect all you want, but the guy was found looking for food in dumpsters when he was arrested. That doesn't sound like a guy with the means to carry on some sinister plot. Supposedly, his last bombing was in 1998. I do consider bombing abortion clinics to be a terrorist act, however don't have a timeline for any. It still doesn't give Islamic grups a free pass and I'm sure the Feds have any eye for any activity at all. And I have never said that Islamic groups/people (who are not US citizens) should have a free pass in the US. I am all for monitoring and screening. What I do think should be afforded are the same base rights that everyone has (i.e. freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to a fair and speedy trial, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 And I have never said that Islamic groups/people (who are not US citizens) should have a free pass in the US. I am all for monitoring and screening.What I do think should be afforded are the same base rights that everyone has (i.e. freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to a fair and speedy trial, etc.) When they become US citizens, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Pleas reread your post. You are saying that an American citizen who wants to monitor non-American citizens is worse for this country, and does more damage to this country than terrorists! Please explain this position with facts. Why don't you take the time to look up the facts, other than just being force fed what you believe if you are really interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 And I have never said that Islamic groups/people (who are not US citizens) should have a free pass in the US. I am all for monitoring and screening.What I do think should be afforded are the same base rights that everyone has (i.e. freedom of religion, freedom of speech, right to a fair and speedy trial, etc.) How do they not? As non-citizens, they technically have no rights here, but there is a difference between trying to tell them what religion to practice and keeping tabs on them. They are non-citizens granted permission to study. No more, no less unless they want to become citizens. We can't treat everyone as citizens who happens to breathe American air for five seconds. It doesn't work that way. That's why there's a citizenship process. Both sides of my family did it in the early-mid 20th century and anyone else who wants to be American has to do likewise. Otherwise, they are here only under temporary permission and can take no offense if they're kept under the thumb of the Feds. I wouldn't expect to be treated any differently if I were in any other country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Exactly....to make everyone happy...I didnt see that quote by Sarge about the bracelets..thats a great idea... Because the people that come here to really learn might be annoyed with wearing a bracelet for that reason, but they won't let that dismay them...it will only discourage those that are up to something or have an excessive amount of pride which sucks for them.. I guess you would have loved nazi Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGUNDYBLEEDER Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Why don't you take the time to look up the facts, other than just being force fed what you believe if you are really interested. Unless your previous posts are a joke, I want to thank you for making me feel a lot more intelligent than someone nearly 3Xs my age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Why don't you take the time to look up the facts, other than just being force fed what you believe if you are really interested. Oh no, you make an accusation you need to support it. Burden of proof is on you. Last I checked, people wishing to secure the country are not responsible for knocking down 2 towers in NYC, a hole in the Pentagon, a hole in a PA field and the deaths of over 3,000 US Citizens. If you follow your line of thinking back to Revolutionairy times, we would still be flying the Union Jack in the US. Look at the reasons we seperated from the UK. Look at the principles that founded this country. You will see that the founding fathers expressly addressed issues like the UN and NATO. And Security was a huge priority, not extending these "rights" to the rest of the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I guess you would have loved nazi Germany. More unfounded sensationalism? The Nazi's tried to wipe out entire religious and ethnic groups. Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Catholics... they did it in Germany and other countries. Big difference between that and keeping track of non-citizens. I bet it tugged at a few heartstrings and riled a few emotions, thoug. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Unless your previous posts are a joke, I want to thank you for making me feel a lot more intelligent than someone nearly 3Xs my age. Whatever makes you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 How do they not?As non-citizens, they technically have no rights here, but there is a difference between trying to tell them what religion to practice and keeping tabs on them. They are non-citizens granted permission to study. No more, no less unless they want to become citizens. We can't treat everyone as citizens who happens to breathe American air for five seconds. It doesn't work that way. That's why there's a citizenship process. Both sides of my family did it in the early-mid 20th century and anyone else who wants to be American has to do likewise. Otherwise, they are here only under temporary permission and can take no offense if they're kept under the thumb of the Feds. I wouldn't expect to be treated any differently if I were in any other country. Well, when or if someone from your family is ever arrested and faces execution for a trumped up charge in another country (should have stayed away from Tijuana, those crooked Mexican cops) - don't expect the US to back you up.. It's your own damn fault you went there. Or maybe we are better than that - maybe we do have a process that must be extended to the world when they visit us. Maybe we are the good guys here and must act accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I guess you would have loved nazi Germany. Dude, sling some more mud please. We haven't had enough yet. Anytime someone suggests securing our country, this accusation is slung. "Let's go back to Nazi Germany." Let's look at the laws of other countryies on this issue. Look at Germany, France, UK. They monitor these people very closely. They even *gasp* threw some out of their countries after 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Well, when or if someone from your family is ever arrested and faces execution for a trumped up charge in another country (should have stayed away from Tijuana, those crooked Mexican cops) - don't expect the US to back you up..It's your own damn fault you went there. This isn't about going to Mexico to study as a student or whatever. This is about people coming here and keeping tabs on them. Islamists aren't looking to get into Mexico (unless they want an easy way in here). I was simply saying if I had a student visa in another country, I wouldn't expect to be treated as a citizen. Or maybe we are better than that - maybe we do have a process that must be extended to the world when they visit us. Maybe we are the good guys here and must act accordingly. That's exactly what the Islamists are counting on. It's also why they hide ammunition in ambulances full of children and shoot at people from within Churches and Mosques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Oh no, you make an accusation you need to support it. Burden of proof is on you. Last I checked, people wishing to secure the country are not responsible for knocking down 2 towers in NYC, a hole in the Pentagon, a hole in a PA field and the deaths of over 3,000 US Citizens. If you follow your line of thinking back to Revolutionairy times, we would still be flying the Union Jack in the US. Look at the reasons we seperated from the UK. Look at the principles that founded this country. You will see that the founding fathers expressly addressed issues like the UN and NATO. And Security was a huge priority, not extending these "rights" to the rest of the world... Speaking of the founding fathers, it was Ben Franklin who said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" But you would know that, because you're so smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjcdaman Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Speaking of the founding fathers, it was Ben Franklin who said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"But you would know that, because you're so smart. :laugh: We live in a TOTALLY different kind of world than Ben Franklin did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGUNDYBLEEDER Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Now that the discussion has been deflected to discuss Nazis and those of us who (myself included) are more dangerous than the terrorists, I have a simple thought. To those that have called us Nazis, placed the threat of domestic terrorists and Islamofascists on equal ground, and have stated that some of us wish to re-write the 1st Amendment, I have a question. When you first read this article in the NY Post what was your first thought? Mine was "wow this is scary I hope they find these students soon." What was your? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Speaking of the founding fathers, it was Ben Franklin who said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"But you would know that, because you're so smart. Yes, I know that. But again, we would not be giving any liberties up! We would be telling would-be students that when they are here, they will be monitred, closely. But don't worry about twisting the words of Franklin to fit your view. I am sure he wouldn't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 Speaking of the founding fathers, it was Ben Franklin who said "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"But you would know that, because you're so smart. Here you go again. Please explain what in the world that has to do with keeping tabs on non-citizens, especially when 17 Egyptians "students" have just vanished into thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 BB, You don't think that domestic terrorists and Islamofascists are on equal moral ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGUNDYBLEEDER Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 BB,You don't think that domestic terrorists and Islamofascists are on equal moral ground? Poor choice of words let me edit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 I read it and hoped they find the students. Of course I also accepted that this was SOP for student visa monitoring. Again, does anyone know how closely the student visa's are screened? Can anyone get one now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.