Zarqawi admits the US is winning in Iraq...

[BlueTalon]

As a Protestant Christian, I feel that the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Chrurches have "betrayed the faith" for centuries, and Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses have betrayed it for less time, but that doesn't necessarily lead to violence.

What is it about the culture there that makes the religious differences so volitile?

[Destino]

As a Protestant Christian, I feel that the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Chrurches have "betrayed the faith" for centuries, and Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses have betrayed it for less time, but that doesn't necessarily lead to violence.

What is it about the culture there that makes the religious differences so volitile?

I've wondered that myself. Even if a Protestant was to go and kill the pope, I wouldn't respond by killing some random protestants. It just seems irrational that ideological differences lead to the killing of random people.

[Air Force Cane]

Skins Hokie is absolutely right on those points..

and this is EXACTLY what we are doing. the President is even pushing Maliki to start up an "oil distribution plan" where every family in Iraq would get a percentage of oil profits. this would allay the Sunni fears since they have no oilfields.

Lebanon used to have a confederal type of government before the PLO and Syrians invaded. and now they are going back to it with some success.

this current national unity government in Iraq is a great step forward, they may see that there are real benefits to work together in the next four years and that way they will all do better. remember, many families in Iraq are mixed Sunni/Shiite

[Baculus]

You lost me. Who ever portrayed al-Zarqawi as a "stupid fool"? All I've ever heard was "evil genius" type portrayals.

Basically, the inference I have heard is that he was basically just a rabble rouser, terrorist, and idealogue, but without little regards for his intelligence or the intelligence of his minions. Basically, the thoughts were that he was ruthless, but more so a thug than anything else. And we all know that underestimating the enemy can land you in a buttload of trouble and pain.

[Predicto]

As a Protestant Christian, I feel that the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Chrurches have "betrayed the faith" for centuries, and Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses have betrayed it for less time, but that doesn't necessarily lead to violence.

What is it about the culture there that makes the religious differences so volitile?

I have a theory on this, and I hope it does not offend anyone.

Deep down, middle-easterners hearken back to a time 8 or 9 hundred years ago when their culture was the center of the world, the most enlightened, advanced, cultured and scientific society on the planet. It is very difficult to understand in their hearts why Western societies passed them up and now dominate the world culturally, economy, militarily, scientifically. In their feelings of cultural backwardness, they have latched on to the one thing that makes them unique - their religion. Collectively, it has made religion the sole thing in their cultural life that matters, becase it is the sole thing in in thier culture in which they can still feel pride. Religion is everything, it is the only thing, without it they would be nothing. And any schism in the religious life is felt much more deeply and evokes mob-based responses rather than individual responses.

Western society is not so different, just further along. We had massive religious wars just a few hundred years ago. Hugenots were slaughtered in France, heretics burned in Spain,etc. But those days moved behind us, as we determined to make religion a personal, individual matter rather than a state or cultural matter.

Does that make sense?

[Predicto]

Skins Hokie is absolutely right on those points..

and this is EXACTLY what we are doing. the President is even pushing Maliki to start up an "oil distribution plan" where every family in Iraq would get a percentage of oil profits. this would allay the Sunni fears since they have no oilfields.

That would be an awesome move forward. If you can get individual Iraqis to feel that they have a personal stake in the success of the government, the battle becomes winnable. If you try to defeat the insurgency solely by military means, you may be stomping out fires there forever.

[Commander PK]

Predicto, I agree with you on your assessment. If the middle-east ever decides to join the 21st century, and stop fighting 1400 year old battles they could become just as viable as the rest of the world.

[webnarc]

Basically, the inference I have heard is that he was basically just a rabble rouser, terrorist, and idealogue, but without little regards for his intelligence or the intelligence of his minions. Basically, the thoughts were that he was ruthless, but more so a thug than anything else. And we all know that underestimating the enemy can land you in a buttload of trouble and pain.

There was also the video that was released showing him trying to fire the gun. It was pretty funny until I remembered what he can do with a knife and then I was scared that maybe he knew I was laughing at him.

[redman]

I dont think someone rises to prominence like he did by being stupid. I really believe that killing him is a blow to the insurgency. He was the leader because he was the best at leading. The next guy to take his place wont be as effective/smart/ruthless, and that is a victory for the good guys.

More to the point, he by all accounts had a direct hand in all phases of their operation. Killing him truly did lop off the head of the organization, and because he was responsible for so much, preventing him from training/preparing a successor is a further loss. It's not a coincidence that in the rubble of the house where such a person was killed, we would find so many valuable intelligence documents.

[Thiebear]

I agree, the one issue is on whether the Sunni's and Shia's can eliminate their ethnical hatred for one another and get along for the better good of Iraq. I have no doubt that Zawkawi was instigating the conflict, as I have no doubt that his successor will do the same. The one battle that needs to be won in the one of thought, and we need to show Iraqi's that their COUNTRY is worth more then their ethnicity. It is a very difficult process to ever accomplish, and I am skeptical to say the least that it can be accomplished, but this was difinately a step in the right direction.

BTW Ish, are you of either decent? What do you think of the racial hatred in Iraq, and how do you think they should go about removing it?

\

Its going to be a lot harder: He's dead, his number 2 is dead, 100+ have been rounded up that were associated to him and 700ish others............

To include their outline on what to do, their strengths and their weaknesses..

Like the Iraqi minister guy said: This pretty much setup their destruction!

But please, continue on.....

[GrimReefa]

As a Protestant Christian, I feel that the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Chrurches have "betrayed the faith" for centuries, and Mormons and Jehovahs Witnesses have betrayed it for less time, but that doesn't necessarily lead to violence.

What is it about the culture there that makes the religious differences so volitile?

Tell the Northern Irish that Christian splits don't lead to violence.

The real problem in the Middle East is that you have a ton of people sitting around in the heat with no jobs. People in poorer areas of the world will use any excuse to start violence. That's how it has been in the past and that's how it will continue to be.

[Air Force Cane]

Grim reefa trots out the tried and tired leftist talking point.

which I guess explains why there are so many Zambian terrorists blowing up American buildings?

Or why there are those crazy Bolivian farmers taking Americans hostage and cutting off their heads?

Oh wait, you must be talking about the Aborigines in the outback who routinely butcher Australian families.

excellent analysis of the last 35 years :doh:

[Air Force Cane]

Or, I guess the poverty that caused Osama bin Laden to wage jihad (net worth 32 million dollars)

the poverty that led to Mohammed Atta launching 9/11 (two college degrees in Chemistry from a German university)

the poverty that Ayman Al Zawahiri had to escape (Egyptian Engineer)

Or maybe it is indeed "poverty" that has led to 19 of 22 armed conflicts around the globe. It certainly couldn't be that 19 of 22 armed conflicts entails at least one Muslim country/entity...

[Johnny Punani2]

Tell the Northern Irish that Christian splits don't lead to violence.

The real problem in the Middle East is that you have a ton of people sitting around in the heat with no jobs. People in poorer areas of the world will use any excuse to start violence. That's how it has been in the past and that's how it will continue to be.

Northern Ireland has nothing to do with religion. It is divided along religious lines but it has more to do with nationalist politics then religion.

[Sarge]

With all due respect, and not intending to start a fight, but I do not think you know very many liberals because you do not have a very accurate picture of our views. We are not more stuck in ideological chains than conservatives. DailyKOS and Michael Moore do not accurately represent our views any more than Ann Coulter and Pat Robertson accurately represent mainstream conservative views.

I persist in my opinion that we should not have invaded Iraq in the first place because it was the wrong war at the wrong time. However, we are there - that is a fact. And we are better off as a nation and a world if we succeed in creating a genuine democracy there rather than fail - that is also a fact. Zarqawi was evil and the world is a better place now that he is dead - this too is a fact. OUr soldiers are brave and honorable men doing a great job in a very difficult situation - this too is a fact. The devil is in the details, as it always is.

Please remember that we have this common ground next time we disagree on something and words like "traitor" and "terrorist-lover" start flying around. Sarge appears incapable of this, but maybe you are not.

ps - I'm still glad Zarqawi is dead. In fact, you know what - Nancy Pelosi is glad he's dead too.

Commie pinko traitor

[Sarge]

That would be an awesome move forward.

I'm sorry. Did you just use "awesome" in reference to the president?

Call Ripley's

[nelms]

Or, I guess the poverty that caused Osama bin Laden to wage jihad (net worth 32 million dollars)

the poverty that led to Mohammed Atta launching 9/11 (two college degrees in Chemistry from a German university)

the poverty that Ayman Al Zawahiri had to escape (Egyptian Engineer)

Or maybe it is indeed "poverty" that has led to 19 of 22 armed conflicts around the globe. It certainly couldn't be that 19 of 22 armed conflicts entails at least one Muslim country/entity...

Rack him!

[ashburnskinsfan]

It's great to hear it straight from Zarqawi that he thinks (thought) the insurgency/terrorist campaign is loosing.

Reading to the end of the document ... Zarqawi himself thinks the US invading Iran would create instability and help the Al Qaeda cause. He also thinks it is necessary to inflate and exaggerate the threat of Iran to encourage the USA to take action. If Sarge, Nelms, AFC and others want a good reason why we should not invade Iran .... well such an action directly supports Zarqawi's strategy.

[McMetal]

Why do all Arabic translations sound like the retarded rantings of a schizophrenic or some pre-pubescent moron? I appreciate that some things get lost in translation, but come on, already.

It's hard to take people seriously when all they are spouting are malapropisms and absurd non-sequitors.

[Sarge]

It's great to hear it straight from Zarqawi that he thinks (thought) the insurgency/terrorist campaign is loosing.

Reading to the end of the document ... Zarqawi himself thinks the US invading Iran would create instability and help the Al Qaeda cause. He also thinks it is necessary to inflate and exaggerate the threat of Iran to encourage the USA to take action. If Sarge, Nelms, AFC and others want a good reason why we should not invade Iran .... well such an action directly supports Zarqawi's strategy.

Fortunately our national security policy isn't predicated on the thoughts and assessments of a piss ant terrorist

[NoCalMike]

Tell the Northern Irish that Christian splits don't lead to violence.

The real problem in the Middle East is that you have a ton of people sitting around in the heat with no jobs. People in poorer areas of the world will use any excuse to start violence. That's how it has been in the past and that's how it will continue to be.

You are correct. I am tired of people acting like the media is soooo leftist because they report about a car bomb when it happens. The media is really asleep at the wheel when it comes to reporting the economic conditions over there. About how american contractors are doing jobs that Iraqis are quite capable of doing and this is leading to iraqis sitting around not being able to provide for their families, which leads to widespread poverty and makes it easier for them to want to pick up arms against America.

No one has yet to answer why Iraqis are not being employed to do the jobs that american contractors are being paid by OUR TAXES to do at ridiculous inflated rates.

The situation in Iraq is NOT all gloom and doom, but I am tired of people whining about the media's depiction of the situation in Iraq when they are lot more bad things they could mention besides a car bomb.

With that said.......I am glad Zarqawi is dead, and I hope it leads to a lot more dead terrorists.

[Sarge]

You are correct. I am tired of people acting like the media is soooo leftist because they report about a car bomb when it happens. The media is really asleep at the wheel when it comes to reporting the economic conditions over there. About how american contractors are doing jobs that Iraqis are quite capable of doing and this is leading to iraqis sitting around not being able to provide for their families, which leads to widespread poverty and makes it easier for them to want to pick up arms against America.

No one has yet to answer why Iraqis are not being employed to do the jobs that american contractors are being paid by OUR TAXES to do at ridiculous inflated rates.

The situation in Iraq is NOT all gloom and doom, but I am tired of people whining about the media's depiction of the situation in Iraq when they are lot more bad things they could mention besides a car bomb.

With that said.......I am glad Zarqawi is dead, and I hope it leads to a lot more dead terrorists.

Umm, you think it could be for security reason maybe? Just maybe?

How do you tell the good guys from the bad guys?

On my last visit to Iraq, I was in the chow hall with abunch of new Iraqi policemen. Guess what happened the next day? Mortar shell, closer to the chow hall than they had ever gotten before.

Now I wonder how those mortarmen got the coordinates to get that close?

Just a good thing arabs are such notoriously bad shots

[NoCalMike]

Umm, you think it could be for security reason maybe? Just maybe?

How do you tell the good guys from the bad guys?

On my last visit to Iraq, I was in the chow hall with abunch of new Iraqi policemen. Guess what happened the next day? Mortar shell, closer to the chow hall than they had ever gotten before.

Now I wonder how those mortarmen got the coordinates to get that close?

Just a good thing arabs are such notoriously bad shots

So security isn't an issue when handing over weapons to these guys when we can't tell who the good guys and bad guys are, when trying to train an Iraqi police force, but employing them to build houses and infrastructure is just tooooo dangerous? Right.

[Sarge]

So security isn't an issue when handing over weapons to these guys when we can't tell who the good guys and bad guys are, when trying to train an Iraqi police force, but employing them to build houses and infrastructure is just tooooo dangerous? Right.

That's just a chance we have to take,but we keep a tight rein on those guys as well.

Now, letting them run around on construction jobs, working inside the wire is another story