chomerics Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen For all the naysayers, there is some pretty damning information in there, and at the least Blackwell should be brought up on election fraud, and it brings into question in many peoples eyes the legitimacy of the election, one of the founding principals of a democratic society. We accused the Ukraines for rigging an election (we were right) because the exit polls didn't match, yet we ignored the problem here. Out of 30 states exit polls that differed, 26 went in Bush's favor, and every critical state saw an outside of MOE swing to Bush (Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio all saw over 4% swings from the exit polling data). It is outside the realm of normal statistics, and is really some damning information. This should lead to an interesting discussion, and I assume all of the Bush backers will claim this is part of the tin foil hat crowd, but when a respected man such as RFK Jr writes an article like this, people will listen, especially considering how low the republicans approval rating is right now. I am awaiting the first conservative counter point to this article, they will be all over the place in the next few days, so bring em' out, I'm interested to reading what they have to say, and how they will use cliche's like whiny democrats, cry babies and what not. I think it will be an interesting few days to say the least Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGUNDYBLEEDER Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolenFor all the naysayers, there is some pretty damning information in there, and at the least Blackwell should be brought up on election fraud, and it brings into question in many peoples eyes the legitimacy of the election, one of the founding principals of a democratic society. We accused the Ukraines for rigging an election (we were right) because the exit polls didn't match, yet we ignored the problem here. Out of 30 states exit polls that differed, 26 went in Bush's favor, and every critical state saw an outside of MOE swing to Bush (Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio all saw over 4% swings from the exit polling data). It is outside the realm of normal statistics, and is really some damning information. This should lead to an interesting discussion, and I assume all of the Bush backers will claim this is part of the tin foil hat crowd, but when a respected man such as RFK Jr writes an article like this, people will listen, especially considering how low the republicans approval rating is right now. I am awaiting the first conservative counter point to this article, they will be all over the place in the next few days, so bring em' out, I'm interested to reading what they have to say, and how they will use cliche's like whiny democrats, cry babies and what not. I think it will be an interesting few days to say the least Thoughts? My first thought is that I will not read the article nor take it seriously because it is in Rolling Stone Magazine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 This is why the electronic voting machines or paperless voting machines are bad. Even if they are totaly on the up and up, it allows for suspiscion too easily. And we know that they are too easy to manipulate and no one would ever know the truth. I prefer to believe that the Bush Administration and Republicans are not that corrupt that they would nationwide rig the elections... but the possibility is out there and power is seductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Election fraud will take place if there is no proper oversight. Proper oversight is impossible if entity being overseen has any control over the oversight process, or of there is any conflict of interest. If any of above statements is the case then election fraud is inevitable. (not necessarily this election, but still inevitable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 My first thought is that I will not read the article nor take it seriously because it is in Rolling Stone Magazine... Thats what I said. Please, its Rolling freaking Stone Magazine Go interview a rock star or take racey pictures of some girl or something I might be willing to listen if you provide a credible newsource . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Thats what I said. Please, its Rolling freaking Stone Magazine Go interview a rock star or take racey pictures of some girl or somethingI might be willing to listen if you provide a credible newsource . . . This is not a matter of whether this happened. That is irrelevant. This is a matter of whether this CAN happen. If it CAN happen then it WILL happen. And possibility of it happening does not depend on the news source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 This is very topical... Each instance of voter fraud should be evaluated and the people put in prison. To just throw things out there one sided is lame... There are soooo many things either side can say... Kucinich? Should have been run by the democrats: Would have fixed the Ohio thing . and probably the Country also.. So 26 of the 30 states were controlled by republicans? and the other 4 were Democrat? Or were they in it together. The basics? 1 ID CARD for voting... No dead people can vote... No signing up to vote the DAY OF... ......... Whats your take Chomerics: What will fix it: its your thread. The Ohio vote-fraud theory appears to stem from the curious ways of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections. During even-numbered years the county's canvassing board posts vote totals that include the results from outside the county from congressional districts that spill over Cuyahoga's borders. The quirk made it look as if the county had 90,000 more votes than voters. The disparities were spotted, and urgent mass mailings began: "Ohio precincts report up to 1,586% turnout . . . 30 Precincts in Ohio's Cuyahoga County report 'over' 100% turnout!" Later, the county added a disclaimer to its Web site in an attempt to explain the numbers. Verified Voting, a group formed by a Stanford University professor to assess electronic voting, has collected 31,000 reports of election fraud and other problems, but nothing that would overturn the Nov. 2 outcome. *Using the links in the above article* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Chommie, YOUR SIDE LOST. GET OVER IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoEd Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I think rigging an election is way too far fetched of an idea to even consider. You say RFK Jr. is respected? Didn't his father win an election that was all but rigged by the Mafia and unions? Talk about the pot calling the kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMac Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 A Kennedy article in a Rolling Stones magazine. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I really wish the left would make up its mind. Either Bush and his appointees are stupid and incompetent, or they're evil geniuses who secretly manipulate every situation and event to their advantage. Please, just pick one and limit your insane ranting to that side. Thank you, drive through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webnarc Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Chommie,YOUR SIDE LOST. GET OVER IT. Heh heh. Actually, if there was election fraud, your side lost - you're as American as chomerics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I really wish the left would make up its mind. Either Bush and his appointees are stupid and incompetent, or they're evil geniuses who secretly manipulate every situation and event to their advantage. Please, just pick one and limit your insane ranting to that side. Thank you, drive through.Now that was a great post! :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 This is very topical...Each instance of voter fraud should be evaluated and the people put in prison. To just throw things out there one sided is lame... There are soooo many things either side can say... Kucinich? Should have been run by the democrats: Would have fixed the Ohio thing . and probably the Country also.. So 26 of the 30 states were controlled by republicans? and the other 4 were Democrat? Or were they in it together. I believe the 4 changes in exit polls in favor of Kerry were in states that he already one, and within the MOE (which is 3%). it has been a while since I read the Freeman analysis of the exit polling, but that is my recollection. I know the biggest swings, which were outside the MOE were all in Bush's favor, and all in battleground states. Here is the Freeman paper. . . http://center.grad.upenn.edu/center/get.cgi?item=exitpollp The basics? 1 ID CARD for voting... No dead people can vote... No signing up to vote the DAY OF... ......... Whats your take Chomerics: What will fix it: its your thread. 1. paper trail 2. eliminating highly partisan officials as heading the election commission (ie the Head of the Bush re-election committe being commissioner of the election) 3. severe punishment into all those who try to tamper with an election. For example, the head of the Republican election campaign in NH was charged with 7mo in jail for committing wire fraud on election day in order to disenfranchise voters who needed rides to the polls. He did this with the sole putpose of keeping people from the polls. He is not teaching a class on how to win elections (I am not making this stuff up). People like that should be punished severely, and IMHO, 7mo at a minimum security prison is a slap on the wrist, it mocks our democracy, and takes away one of the founding principals of democracy. I agree on this for BOTH sides as well. how can we have a free country when the sanctity of our elections is brought into question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I really wish the left would make up its mind. Either Bush and his appointees are stupid and incompetent, or they're evil geniuses who secretly manipulate every situation and event to their advantage. Please, just pick one and limit your insane ranting to that side. Thank you, drive through. Evil geniuses when it comes to secret (and often blatant) manipulations. Stupid and incompetent when it comes to leading the country. Is that impossible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 I think rigging an election is way too far fetched of an idea to even consider. Did you even read the article? I You say RFK Jr. is respected? Didn't his father win an election that was all but rigged by the Mafia and unions? Talk about the pot calling the kettle. Huh? kind of a completely hypocritical post don't ya think? First you say rigging an election is "way too far fetched", then you say "his father did it" BTW, it wasn't his father, it was JFK who supposedly did it. I was not alive then, and I don;t know the circumstances, but it wouldn't surprise me, and I think it was a travesty then. If you have seen my posts, I am not to keen on JFK, and he was a LOT like Bush in many many aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 I really wish the left would make up its mind. Either Bush and his appointees are stupid and incompetent, or they're evil geniuses who secretly manipulate every situation and event to their advantage. Please, just pick one and limit your insane ranting to that side. Thank you, drive through. They know how to play politics, but they have absolultely no idea about government. It isn't to hard to understand. I mean when you can win two closely debated elections, and still not understand when a city is drowning it may be a good time to cut your vacation short and not go on a photo-op playing the guitar, I kinda think that fits the definition don't you? They are all about image and presence, but no substance, they are, in the purest definition of a house of cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I really wish the left would make up its mind. Either Bush and his appointees are stupid and incompetent, or they're evil geniuses who secretly manipulate every situation and event to their advantage. Please, just pick one and limit your insane ranting to that side. Thank you, drive through. i nominate this for political post of the year.... :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 i nominate this for political post of the year.... :applause: It's cute how eagerly Bush supporters jump on any oversimplification they can find to justify their otherwise groundless beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 It's cute how eagerly Bush supporters jump on any oversimplification they can find to justify their otherwise groundless beliefs. Booooo Hooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 It's cute how eagerly Bush supporters jump on any oversimplification they can find to justify their otherwise groundless beliefs. When enough crap is thrown against the wall, eventually something will stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 When enough crap is thrown against the wall, eventually something will stick liberals know this all to well... they invented it :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 When enough crap is thrown against the wall, eventually something will stick hehe can you imagine what happens once cognitive dissonance reaches critical mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 It's cute how eagerly Bush supporters jump on any oversimplification they can find to justify their otherwise groundless beliefs.Quit your cryin' son. Bush won, deal. In 2008 you'll get another shot.Meanwhile, if you want to see ALL of the "crap" as Chom so eloquently put it, go to http://www.factcheck.org/ The RNC and the DNC both play dirty, along with their attack dog groups like NARAL, Moveon.org, and CEI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRS Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Quit your cryin' son. Bush won, deal. In 2008 you'll get another shot.Meanwhile, if you want to see ALL of the "crap" as Chom so eloquently put it, go to http://www.factcheck.org/ The RNC and the DNC both play dirty, along with their attack dog groups like NARAL, Moveon.org, and CEI. Papa is that you? Where have you been all these years? I am not running for president in 2008, so I'm not sure what you mean by "you'll get another shot". Whoever wins, I hope they bring about accountability, responsibility, transperency, oversight, planning, vision, leadership, etc. Things that our government has been sorely lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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