skinz1972 Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 it appears america didnt learn the lesson from the vietnam war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Some interesting reading on the subject, if your interested: Simply more questions or answers? http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5566 http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f882c1b8-aa42-431f-83a6-0066e7629ace http://markinmexico.blogspot.com/2006/06/please-let-this-be-true.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Also, were you over there or have you been over there? If you haven't you have NO IDEA what it is like therefore you really can't form an educated opinion on the subject at hand because you haven't experienced it first hand. I've heard many people use this argument. If what you say if correct, then I (and many other people) shouldn't form an opinion about anything we have not personally experienced. Won't be many opinions now will it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I've heard many people use this argument. If what you say if correct,then I (and many other people) shouldn't form an opinion about anything we have not personally experienced. Won't be many opinions now will it? No there wouldn't. Probably the way it should be too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Also, were you over there or have you been over there? If you haven't you have NO IDEA what it is like therefore you really can't form an educated opinion on the subject at hand because you haven't experienced it first hand. (Note: Generic response to the whole "if you haven't been there, then you're not allowed to have an opinion" brigade, not just to one person.) So, should I conclude that you voted for Kerry? Since (according to you) he's allowed to have an opinion about Iraq, and W isn't? Or would it be more accurate to say that your position is that civilians aren't allowed to have an opinion that's different from yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Just a update from the accused: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/10/AR2006061001129.html Marine Says Rules Were Followed Sergeant Describes Hunt for Insurgents in Haditha, Denies Coverup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I can't wait until this all unravels. The only shame of it all is that we have Marines being treated worse than *******s in Gitmo for something that has not been proven, and that the little commie sympathizing "reporter" from Al-Time will suffer no repercussions when this turns out to be bull**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinthemboys Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I can't wait until this all unravels. The only shame of it all is that we have Marines being treated worse than *******s in Gitmo for something that has not been proven, and that the little commie sympathizing "reporter" from Al-Time will suffer no repercussions when this turns out to be bull**** I agree with you 100%. an even sadder fact is that there will be some so called "americans" who still buy this commies BS, even after proven wrong. Sorry ****s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Hmmm http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=853792006 U.S. father visiting Haditha saw no sign of massacre By Adam Tanner SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A Presbyterian minister who was an embedded reporter with his son's U.S. Marine company, which is accused of killing 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha, said soldiers in private moments gave no indication anything horrible happened in the town. Rather, the young men in Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment talked about earlier intense fighting in Falluja and other wartime ordeals. "I would think that if it was as bad as everybody is making it out to be, I'd have heard something about it when I was there," said the Rev. Ben Mathes, 53, whose son, 1st Lt. Adam Mathes, is Kilo company's executive officer. The military is investigating whether some soldiers from Kilo company went on a deadly rampage in November after an explosive device killed one of the most popular members of the unit, Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas. The father spent 12 days with the unit in January in Haditha as a reporter with the Sacramento, California-based K-Love Christian Radio Network. He also ministered to the troops. "It was freezing cold and everybody gathered around this kind of metal fireplace where we chopped up wooden pallets and burnt them and we'd sit there and talk about home and family and the deepest things with these kids," he said in an interview on Thursday. "Not once did anything come up that something horrible had happened." "They talked about the first battle of Falluja and things that haunt them. They'd talk about they had mortars land right beside them that were duds and three landed right beside them and a third one went off and it injured the buddy next to them and they didn't get hit." He said he also did not feel animosity from Iraqis he encountered while on patrol with Kilo company in Haditha. "You would think that if something horrible had happened they would just disappear or just have nothing to do with these folks," Mathes said. "They came out on the streets and brought us bread and tea and invited us into their homes. The businessmen would have them come into their shops." Christopher Price, a Georgia-based Presbyterian minister who travelled with Mathes to Iraq, also reported he saw no signs of bad feelings between Iraqis and Kilo company. The elder Mathes, the president of a Christian ministry that focuses on areas along remote foreign rivers, said his son was overseeing the company's base during the November killings and was not facing any charges. Adam Mathes, replying to a request for an interview, said, "Once the dark clouds clear, I may be available for contact -- I have plenty of good things to say about our latest deployment to Iraq, but I cannot say at this time. HURTING MORALE With the U.S. Senate planning hearings into the Haditha incident, which has further soured global perceptions of the U.S. intervention in Iraq, the elder Mathes said the Marines were being unfairly maligned. "We have leaders who are hired by our country to lead us, who sent my kid to war and then they are back here bad-mouthing him and saying things they have no idea if it's true or not to get a little (TV) face time," he said. Such criticism hurt the morale of soldiers already under great pressure, especially those now in Iraq, Mathes said. "How do you think it makes these kids feel, to come in exhausted, scared sometimes, maybe wounded, maybe having been in some type of combat exchange and turn on the TV set and be told they are just full of crap and they snapped and are just not worth a damn?" he said. "Why in the world would any young person want to continue to defend our county if that is what they are hearing?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I can't wait until this all unravels. The only shame of it all is that we have Marines being treated worse than *******s in Gitmo for something that has not been proven, and that the little commie sympathizing "reporter" from Al-Time will suffer no repercussions when this turns out to be bull**** I was going to congratulate you on the subtle irony of your complaining about Marines being spoken badly of "for something which has not been proven" by comparing them with prisoners in Gitmo (every single one of which is in there for something which has not been proven.) But then I decided it was more likely that you're simply so partisan that you didn't realise your statement is not only false, but irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I was going to congratulate you on the subtle irony of your complaining about Marines being spoken badly of "for something which has not been proven" by comparing them with prisoners in Gitmo (every single one of which is in there for something which has not been proven.) But then I decided it was more likely that you're simply so partisan that you didn't realise your statement is not only false, but irrational. Well then, by all means, allow me restate. We have American fighting men that are being treated the same as *******s in Gitmo. One would think that their country, for whom they are fighting, would give them the benifit of the doubt before putting them in solitary confinement and shackling them to a wall. Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Well then, by all means, allow me restate.We have American fighting men that are being treated the same as *******s in Gitmo. One would think that their country, for whom they are fighting, would give them the benifit of the doubt before putting them in solitary confinement and shackling them to a wall. Better? Last I heard, not one of the accused Marines was in solitary confinement shackled to a wall. I'd bet that every one of them has legal representation. (Or will, when they get charged. Have they even been charged yet? Or is it just "under investigation"?) I'd be willing to bet that every one of them, when/if charged, will be informed of what they're charged with, and will be allowed to call witnesses in their defense. I'd bet that not one of them has been chained in a refrigerated room untill they pass out from hypothermia. Nor been forced to stand for 24 hours with a noose around their neck. I'd bet that, when charged, the court will be required to find them guilty, to some specified criteria. (Does the military use "beyond reasonable doubt"? Or is there some other standard?) And that the rules will be that if the prosecution can't prove it's case, then they must go free. In any case, I'd bet that the standard they're judged by won't be that they must be confined forever, unless the court rules unanimously that the defendants will not in the future threaten us citizens or interests. In fact, I'd bet that, so far, the intolerable abuse that these people have been subjected to, is that some newspapers have said that there is some evidence which suggests that a crime has been committed. Yeah, they're entitled to the benefit of the doubt. They shouldn't just be thrown under the bus just because, say, Baghdad Bob accuses them of something. But there's a lot more parallels between Gitmo and the prisoners of Hitler or Stalin, than there are between Gitmo and the treatment of the accused Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hearing the treatment of accused US soldiers and Gitmo detainees being compared makes me sick. This parents editorial,especialy the highlights will have to speak for me till I calm down. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/3958641.html Sixty years later and caught up in another war, we are confronted by the massacre in Haditha. And we are also caught up in the anguish of another generation of young men and women asked to kill but to keep killing within "civilized" bounds, to take insults, be fired upon by men hiding behind women and children, yet not respond in kind. To most readers this is an academic question of morality, or I-told-you- so politics. To those of us with loved ones in the military, the allegations of an atrocity committed by U.S. Marines in Haditha are personal. All our troops confront the tortured "morality" of war. My son wrote this from his first combat tour in Afghanistan as a Marine intelligence noncom: "Date: 9/25/03 8:27:01 PM Dear Mom and Dad: I have learned that the right thing and the necessary thing are not synonymous, rarely are they even in the same ballpark. It's very depressing to see the results of some necessary actions, it's never pure, and there is no purity here ... "People ignore what they cannot see. They just don't want to know. The truth is too ugly and vicious to comprehend ... "In a natural state a human will kill, and kill not always for necessity, but for convenience as well. The only way that I know I am still me is that I hate that fact; I hate it more than anything I have ever known." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Last I heard, not one of the accused Marines was in solitary confinement shackled to a wall. Evidently, you lost a bet http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/shackled.html Don't shoot the source, it came from Google Dear Dr. Savage: My Secretary handed me a document this evening which stunned me. It was a document from the investigation which had been scanned and e-mailed to my office by a member of the media. I don’t know who leaked the document- - whether it was an "unnamed Pentagon official," NCIS, or a politician with an agenda- - but I do know that it is an outrage that the only piece of documentary evidence I’ve seen so far in this case came from a member of the media and not from the Marine Corps. As my client sits shackled in solitary confinement in the Marine Corps Brig with charges yet to be filed, the Marine Corps has stooped to leaking portions of the investigation in order to advance their case in the media. This maneuver calculated solely for the benefit of an agenda constitutes a miscarriage of justice to the prejudice of my client and all involved. The intentional circulation of this document should shock the conscience of all Americans concerned with the fair treatment of our men and women in uniform. I am outraged that government officials would trample on the constitutional rights of a decorated military member in an effort to meet an agenda. This type of malicious action jeopardizes any chance my client and these Marines might have had for a fair trial. An independent congressional inquiry should commence to investigate this impermissible conduct. In a similar vein, I am troubled by the "unlawful command influence" at the highest levels. When the commander-in-chief and other high level military officials are passing on the guilt of these men and making statements regarding punishment based on pure conjecture, what message is that sending to their military subordinates who will be charged with rendering a fair judgment in this case? Any potential military juror has already seen and heard their superiors at the highest levels intimate their personal verdicts. That kind of influence is patently unjust and, I’m afraid, will operate to taint the judgment of what is supposed to be an impartial fact-finder. My client’s opportunity for justice has been irreparably compromised even before the first charge has been filed. It is a sad day in military justice when honor on the battlefield takes a back seat to political agendas. Thanks again for your support. You are a true American. Jeremiah J. Sullivan, III Law Offices of Jeremiah J. Sullivan, III http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13176492/ "Given the preliminary findings of the ongoing investigation into the Hamdania incident, a decision was made that the eight service members in pretrial confinement be given the maximum level of restraint," King wrote in a prepared statement. "Consequently when the service members leave their cell, they are fully restrained with handcuffs attached to a leather belt and leg cuffs while being escorted by a correctional specialist as a safety precaution -------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, safety precaution my ass http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13187647/ The attorney said the case against the eight men developed after an Iraqi family approached U.S. government officials looking for money on grounds that a relative had been killed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- So, on the word of some gold diggers, these Americans are locked up? What a ****ed up situation --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-marines7jun07,1,5394994.story?coll=la-headlines-world SAN DIEGO — A Navy corpsman is being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment while being kept in the brig at Camp Pendleton awaiting charges in the death of an Iraqi, the prisoner's attorney said Tuesday. Attorney Jeremiah J. Sullivan III said his client, whom he described as a 20-year-old corpsman who has served two combat tours in Iraq, is in solitary confinement and is shackled when he is let out of his cell to exercise. ------------------------------------------------------------------ So, to folks like you, we're supposed to jump through hoops when lawyers say that terrorists scumbags aren't being given their after dinner mints in Gitmo, but when a lawyer says an American fighting man is subjected to cruel and unusaual punishment from his own people, well....it's no big deal What a joke ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.patriotdefensefund.com/home.html My husband and I are sincerely grateful for the overwhelming support our family has received during this difficult time. Please understand that on the advice of counsel I am protecting the names and personal information of my husband and family. My husband is a 20 year-old Hospital Corpsman Third Class. He graduated from high school in June 2003. He began his first combat deployment to Iraq in July 2004. During his first deployment, 19 Marines from his Battalion gave their lives as the ultimate sacrifice for our country. Nine Marines from his Company were killed, five of them in one firefight. Two Marines died in my husband's arms. My husband was awarded the Purple Heart during his first deployment. He returned home in April 2005, in time for the birth of our daughter. In January 2006, after spending a very short time at home, my husband left again for his second combat tour in Iraq. I proudly stood by my husband each time he deployed because I am also an active duty Hospital Corpsman Third Class proudly serving our country. Even though I wear a military uniform, it was still difficult to watch my husband deploy to combat because I didn't know if I would ever see him again. I know that our daughter is too young to appreciate what has happened to her father, but I know in my heart she misses him. My husband is represented by Attorney Jeremiah J. Sullivan, III. Mr. Sullivan informed our family that his office has received numerous telephone calls from concerned citizens, companies, and organizations from across the country. Many of them have asked how they can donate funds to defray my husband's legal fees. As a result of this overwhelming generosity, I have set up this fund for the benefit of my husband. Any contributions received will be utilized solely for his defense. Contributions may be mailed to: Patriot Defense Fund, P.O. Box 80862, San Diego, CA 92138-0862. All checks should be made payable to the "Patriot Defense Fund." I have had the opportunity to visit my husband at the Brig in Camp Pendleton. During the visits, my husband's arms and legs remained shackled at all times. I can only speak to my husband through the glass with a guard posted in the room. When I told my husband about the support he has received from across the country, it immediately lifted his spirits. Words cannot express my husband's gratitude for the many kind words and support. I will update this website as often as I can with more current information as it becomes available. It has been extremely difficult between working, visiting my husband, and caring for our daughter. I will do my best. You may send e-mails to my husband at HM3@patriotdefensefund.com. I will deliver your e-mails to him. Your words of support will be greatly appreciated. For information on donating to the families of the other Marines involved, please contact their respective attorneys. Thank you and God Bless. Please ensure that you verify the authenticity of any defense fund before sending money. My husband's defense fund may be verified by contacting Attorney Jeremiah J. Sullivan's Office at (619) 578-5958. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13202885 CAMP PENDLETON - A Marine under investigation for the killing of an Iraqi civilian was ordered kept in solitary confinement at the Camp Pendleton brig because of concerns he might flee, it was reported Wednesday. The Marine corporal is one of eight serviceman attached to Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment who have remained in the brig since returning from Iraq in late April, the North County Times reported. Joseph Low, an attorney for the unidentified Marine, said the decision by Marine Col. Robert Hanson, a military magistrate, at a hearing Wednesday was based solely on fears that any Marine might flee in the face of severe allegations, the newspaper reported. "I'm very disappointed with the results of the hearing because my client is not a flight risk," Low told the newspaper. "He wants to defend himself against the charges, and he doesn't want to run and hide." 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Larry Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 OK, at least one of the accused (It looks like all of those posts refer to one person) is being kept restrained when out of his cell. As I understand it (from watching movies) such treatment is standard in US prisons when someone is under a death sentance. (I don't know if they're standard when someone is facing a death sentance.) (I assume from the articles that such treatment, while maybe not unheard of, is not exactly common in military detention.) OTOH, I also gather from the articles that he's under these restrictions because a judge decided that they were necessary. (Which at least implies that this guy's case has at least once seen the inside of a courtroom.) I tend to assume that the judge had a reason, although there certainly isn't one mentioned. However, I repeat: I'd be willing to bet that not one of the accused has been forced to stand for 24 hours with a noose around their necks. And that none of them has passed out from intentionally induced hypothermia. The accused has met with his family. (The detainees in Gitmo cannot even tell their families that they're not dead.) The accused has an attorney representing him. He's receiving due process. (Yeah, based on those articles, it does appear the accused is being, well, I'd guess treated "over-enthusiastically" is the best term I can come up with. I, at least, haven't seen any reason to assume that those restraints are needed. (Aparantly the judge saw something that isn't in those articles.) It's even possible that there's some political influence on the court. (Although I'd be more inclined to believe the political pressure would be going the other way. But I'm not stupid enough to believe there's no political influence on the military.)) But I heven't seen W swearing before the Supreme Court that the words "Commander in Chief" grant him the authority to keep the accused detained forever, with no due process whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 ,and I am sorry, but the innocent until proven guilty is a crock. If they did it, they should rot, simple as that, I'll keep this marked for any further smack you want to throw out on Gitmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 However, I repeat: I'd be willing to bet that not one of the accused has been forced to stand for 24 hours with a noose around their necks. And that none of them has passed out from intentionally induced hypothermia. None of those Marines was caught on a battlefield shooting at Americans either. Looks like another attempt by the adminstration to look good and kiss the asses of the media by B-B-Qing a GI Bush has already said punishment will be delivered, but what's he going to do when this is all found to be BS, apologize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 None of those Marines was caught on a battlefield shooting at Americans either.Looks like another attempt by the adminstration to look good and kiss the asses of the media by B-B-Qing a GI Bush has already said punishment will be delivered, but what's he going to do when this is all found to be BS, apologize? Sarge, what right do they have to kill innocent childred? I am just curious, and I know your hatred for Arabs, but do they hae ANY rights in your book? When does a 6month old old baby become the enemy in your eyes, at birth or conception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 None of those Marines was caught on a battlefield shooting at Americans either. Neither were (at least some of) the prisoners at Gitmo. But keep pulling (fictional) rationales out of your, I mean, out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Actually war DOES have rules, ever heard of the GWP? That would be a good place to start. . .How about not killing children? Would that be a place to start?Here. lets put on the table what these guys did ,and I am sorry, but the innocent until proven guilty is a crock. If they did it, they should rot, simple as that, there is also a LOT of evidence already public through Iraq. Hmmm Chommie, why don't you tell everyone here why it is that you and Mr ACLU have spewed for years now about the Gitmo detainees, how they've been mistreated, how they have no rights, how BadBush has perverted the Constitution blah blah blah. Why don't you, a self professed pot smoking government employee, tell everyone here why for years now you've asked me, a person who served the country for 22+ years, "Why do you hate freedom?" The question now is, "Why do you suddenly hate freedom?" Why is it that you all want the Gitmo terrorists to have the benefit of the doubt, but not our boys? Oh, wait. I hit it , didn't I? "Our boys" Americans You and your ilk on the left are all about rights, until it comes to American servicemen. In that case, they are just the disposable knuckledraggers of the Bush Adminstration, right? Not worth defending. : Not like the poor victims of the BushHitler Adminstration, eh? But you'll pop up and chirp "I support the troops" every chance you get Just where is the ACLU in this case Larry? Why haevn't they crawled out from under their rock? Why aren't they up there squawking about the treatment of these boys and ensuring that they are receiving prayer time and getting culturally sensitive meals? Their silence in the matter is damning. And your hypocracy Chom disgusts me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Chom, I am curious if there is any circustances in your opinion where the death of children in a combat situation can be justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Sarge, what right do they have to kill innocent childred? I am just curious, and I know your hatred for Arabs, but do they hae ANY rights in your book? When does a 6month old old baby become the enemy in your eyes, at birth or conception? Collateral damage. It's what happens when cowardly *******s (freedom fighters by your definition)set off bombs and then run and hide amongst children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Hmmm Chommie, why don't you tell everyone here why it is that you and Mr ACLU have spewed for years now about the Gitmo detainees, how they've been mistreated, how they have no rights, how BadBush has perverted the Constitution blah blah blah.Why don't you, a self professed pot smoking government employee, tell everyone here why for years now you've asked me, a person who served the country for 22+ years, "Why do you hate freedom?" The question now is, "Why do you suddenly hate freedom?" Why is it that you all want the Gitmo terrorists to have the benefit of the doubt, but not our boys? Oh, wait. I hit it , didn't I? "Our boys" Americans You and your ilk on the left are all about rights, until it comes to American servicemen. In that case, they are just the disposable knuckledraggers of the Bush Adminstration, right? Not worth defending. : Not like the poor victims of the BushHitler Adminstration, eh? But you'll pop up and chirp "I support the troops" every chance you get Just where is the ACLU in this case Larry? Why haevn't they crawled out from under their rock? Why aren't they up there squawking about the treatment of these boys and ensuring that they are receiving prayer time and getting culturally sensitive meals? Their silence in the matter is damning. And your hypocracy Chom disgusts me And if reality matched your delusions, then you'd have a legitimate complaint. Just offhand, I'd bet that the reason the ACLU isn't rushing to defend your brave hero is because in his case, the law is being followed. He's getting due process. (Yes, based on your posts, I'd suspect that they're taking unnecessary security precautions with him.) I have some problems with the way they're being treated, based on your posts. And frankly, if I had spent the last three years defending government sponsored torture, kidnappings, and disapearances, and then decided to become outraged because an accused multiple murderer (in a uniform) is wearing handcuffs when he's not in his cell, I don't think I'd be throwing the hypocrite label at somebody else, simply because I'm offended by a position that the other hasn't taken, but I want him to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Bush has already said punishment will be delivered, but what's he going to do when this is all found to be BS, apologize? You got a quote on that? All the Bush quotes I've seen were prefaced with "If ROE or laws were broken..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 And if reality matched your delusions, then you'd have a legitimate complaint. Just offhand, I'd bet that the reason the ACLU isn't rushing to defend your brave hero is because in his case, the law is being followed. He's getting due process. (Yes, based on your posts, I'd suspect that they're taking unnecessary security precautions with him.) I have some problems with the way they're being treated, based on your posts. And frankly, if I had spent the last three years defending government sponsored torture, kidnappings, and disapearances, and then decided to become outraged because an accused multiple murderer (in a uniform) is wearing handcuffs when he's not in his cell, I don't think I'd be throwing the hypocrite label at somebody else, simply because I'm offended by a position that the other hasn't taken, but I want him to take. No, my outrage comes fromt he fact that these are American servicemen, who have put their asses on the line for you and I, but now are being treated like dirt without even having charges brought against them. And apparently the president and the media have no problems with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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