Prosperity Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 ...it's been the basis of human civilization since the dawn of time. ...the majority of Americans say it matters ...families are important because for their role in raising future generations. Pick one or all of them or try thinking about it and coming up with dozens more. Marriage's goal has changed. It is now supposedly based on love, while for the vast majority of human civillization love had absolutely nothing to do with it. The marriage for love concept is fairly new. Secondly, would a good marriage lead a man to prostitution? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 A child needs the stability marriage offers. I'm sure everyone knows the kid that plays mom against dad, because each feels guilty about the divorce, and discipline suffers. Is it possible to succesfully raise a child outside of this ideal environment? Yes. But it's harder. MUCH harder. And there are a lot more failures. who's disagreeing with you here? I guess you are implying it relates as prostitution will lead to more divorces and worse off families. Of course, that is an implication. If people are going to do something that is "adulterous" they are going to do it, it is not hard to stop. Prostitution is not legal in Virginia or DC, yet it happens? There are obviously no laws to protect womens health since prostitution is illegal. Legalizing it may make it more widespread, but there are people here, Christian or other faiths, who would never do it, so I think the religious morals question is solved. If prostitution was legal, I would not be any more inclined to hire one. Liberty and Renegade make a valid point here, change is inevitable, our society is always progressing, and if you don't agree, look at how we've changed even in the past 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I've got a completely unrealistic proposition for you... Get a college degree in something, then get your teacher's license. Teach 4 or 5 years, just to get a good sample. Then, take a close look at what you see are the differences between kids with stable, two-parent families and kids from families broken in one way or another, be it divorce, death, mom not being married in the first place, or mom not being competent to do the job so grandma, who is already tired from the first go around, has to try to do it again. Then, come back and tell me if you think the institution of marriage in America matters. Please note: There are exceptions. I've had students from two parent households who were totally screwed up, and students being raised by a single parent who were wonderful people. These are, however, exceptions. A child needs a mother and a father. Children learn from each parent how to behave. Boys learn how to be men from their fathers, and how to treat a woman from their mothers (and fathers). It's the same for girls (but reversed, of course). Men and women bring different things to the table in a child's development. A child needs the stability marriage offers. I'm sure everyone knows the kid that plays mom against dad, because each feels guilty about the divorce, and discipline suffers. Is it possible to succesfully raise a child outside of this ideal environment? Yes. But it's harder. MUCH harder. And there are a lot more failures. So, like I said, go get a teacher's license and teach in a public school for 4 or 5 years. Then, come back and ask that again. I take massive issue with this. I am not married, yet I have a daughter...be it as it may that she is only a few months old, but I will guarun-damn-tee you that she will be better off then many married households. As it is now, a marriage is just a stupid piece of paper. You don't need a marriage to love the person you have a child with, and provide a household full of love. I'll give you one great example...probably one of the most Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell. Probably one of the few successful relationships ever in Hollywood. I know you didn't mean to offend, but it this close-minded crap where the "thumpers" always say....you must conform to us or you will screw things up in your life and society. Normally, I'm VERY tolerant of it, but this pushes it over the line. I know you said there were some exceptions, but I'll almost bet you that the number of unhappy married households where the kids are screwed up because of two bickering parents who fell out of love is increasing. A married man who is unhappy is going to commit adultery no matter what. Whether prostitution is legal or illegal they will do it. If it's illegal and they decide to use a prostitute (instead of trying to find a gf on the side where you can ruin even more peoples lives) the chances of them contracting a disease are greater, and then they pass it on to their wife. If it was legal and regulated at least that person who was going to commit adultery will only have to live with the guilt himself...never passing on a disease to his unsuspecting wife. And the same goes for the woman cheating on her husband. How would that be..she ends up getting pregnant from having just a "fling". Now that I'm done venting, and rambling. I know what people you are talking about, and if those same single parents did get married to each other...the kids would be worse off. There are way too many people out there now who get married, have kids, and are now miserable. now I'm done. who's disagreeing with you here? I guess you are implying it relates as prostitution will lead to more divorces and worse off families. Of course, that is an implication.If people are going to do something that is "adulterous" they are going to do it, it is not hard to stop. Prostitution is not legal in Virginia or DC, yet it happens? There are obviously no laws to protect womens health since prostitution is illegal. Legalizing it may make it more widespread, but there are people here, Christian or other faiths, who would never do it, so I think the religious morals question is solved. If prostitution was legal, I would not be any more inclined to hire one. Liberty and Renegade make a valid point here, change is inevitable, our society is always progressing, and if you don't agree, look at how we've changed even in the past 50 years. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 who's disagreeing with you here? I guess you are implying it relates as prostitution will lead to more divorces and worse off families. Of course, that is an implication. No, I'm implying that there IS tremendous value in the institution of marriage, in direct response to a person who implied (by asking about it) that there was not. I very specifically have not taken a position on the issue of legalizing prostitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 The same thing could be said about strippers. I don't see guidance councelors saying, you should dance with a pole? Its called individual responsibility... someone else becoming a stripper or hooker is not why your marriage failed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 I take massive issue with this. I am not married, yet I have a daughter...be it as it may that she is only a few months old, but I will guarun-damn-tee you that she will be better off then many married households. I hope so. If that's true though, it will be in spite of your single parenting, not because of it. Being a single parent is very difficult, and you're going to have to overcome a lot of obstacles a two-parent household doesn't face. In a two parent household, there is a partner to share the work load. You're going to have to shoulder it by yourself, with whatever help you can get from extended family. In a two parent household, there is a parent of each sex for the child to model. You are going to have to be very careful that your daughter has positive female role models to learn from. In a two parent household, the child learns how a man should treat a woman and how a woman should treat a man from the parents. You are going to have to be extremely careful to always provide positive examples of these kind of relationships. There are a hundred other ways that a two parent household is the better situation. You are going to have to work hard to compensate. Look, I'm not trying to offend you, or anyone in particular. As I said, I've known many kids who are succesfully raised by single parents. I'm not trying to attack you, or your particular situation. I don't even know what your situation is. I'm sure you have good reason to be a single parent. However, I'm also sure that if you are honest with yourself, you'd also agree that the ideal situation is for a child to have a mother and a father. It's better. Not just a little better. It's a LOT better. This is not just my personal opinion. Every study I've ever read indicates that it is far better for a child to be raised in a stable, two parent household. It's just common sense, really. And, the best way to ensure that stable, two parent household is the institution of marriage. The fact that it's worked in other ways doesn't mean marriage is not the best way. I think children are important enough that they deserve the best way. This is one I'm not backing down on. I've seen too many kids screwed up by their situation. I've seen boys who are out of control because they have no father to be an authority figure in their lives. I've seen boys who treat girls as sex objects, not people, because they don't have a healthy relationship to look up to. I've seen children who have become pawns in a custody game, shuttling back and forth from house to house, with no stability. I've seen grandparents in parent teacher conferences, practically in tears because they can't control their grandchildren. I've seen much more than that. I'll say it again. I think children are important enough that they deserve the best way. Not a way that might work, or even a good way. The best way. As it is now, a marriage is just a stupid piece of paper. Sadly, all too true in many cases, but it still provides a stability that is the best environment for a child. You don't need a marriage to love the person you have a child with, and provide a household full of love. I'll give you one great example...probably one of the most Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell. Probably one of the few successful relationships ever in Hollywood. I know you didn't mean to offend, but it this close-minded crap where the "thumpers" always say....you must conform to us or you will screw things up in your life and society. Normally, I'm VERY tolerant of it, but this pushes it over the line. I know you said there were some exceptions, but I'll almost bet you that the number of unhappy married households where the kids are screwed up because of two bickering parents who fell out of love is increasing. A married man who is unhappy is going to commit adultery no matter what. Whether prostitution is legal or illegal they will do it. If it's illegal and they decide to use a prostitute (instead of trying to find a gf on the side where you can ruin even more peoples lives) the chances of them contracting a disease are greater, and then they pass it on to their wife. If it was legal and regulated at least that person who was going to commit adultery will only have to live with the guilt himself...never passing on a disease to his unsuspecting wife. And the same goes for the woman cheating on her husband. How would that be..she ends up getting pregnant from having just a "fling". I'll just note again that I actually wasn't addressing the issue of prostitution at all. I was just pointing out that the best situation for any child is to be raised in a stable, two parent home. I believe that children deserve the best. I'll also note here that, in response to your "thumper" comment, I'm not even talking about Christian marriage. I know the fact that I defend the Bible and am a Christian paints me in a certain light, but I'm talking about marriage in general. Two Hindus, Jews, Muslims, or athiests can provide the stability and environment that a child needs. Now that I'm done venting, and rambling. I know what people you are talking about, and if those same single parents did get married to each other...the kids would be worse off. There are way too many people out there now who get married, have kids, and are now miserable. now I'm done. No, those people shouldn't get married. Those people shouldn't have children in the first place. It is incredibly selfish to have a child without being able to provide the best environment for that child. If those people are not willing or able to commit to each other with "just a piece of paper", how are they going to provide the stability a child needs? I hope I didn't offend anyone with my above statement, although I'm sure I did. I will just add that I certainly did not intend offense, but I feel very strongly about this, as someone who works with children every day. Children deserve the very best situation. That situation is a stable, two parent home. Anyway, I wish you and your daughter nothing but the best. Children are a precious gift, and I know she will be a blessing to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 It is illegal because it offends the sensibilities of certain sects of society. Their sensibilities are more important than logical law. Just another law that degrades the rule of law. Maybe your logic is illogical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 If it's legal, first you can tax it. As was previously said do it on a state level. If you find it morally wrong, don't do it. People are going to goto prostitutes no matter what, so why not make sure it's safe by regular testing, and manditory condom use. Think of how much it would help with health care. As for girls finding it better to go into prostitution instead of school. I got two for that one. First, if you are worried about that, then maybe parents will start doing a better job teaching their kids morals instead of letting the TV be their teacher. Second, don't worry once the market is flooded, then it won't be economical for them to go into prostitution...the price will plummet. It would not help health care it woul;d actually raise your premiums on health care same as making it legal for gays to get married it would raise your health care premiums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 It would not help health care it woul;d actually raise your premiums on health care same as making it legal for gays to get married it would raise your health care premiums Well, if my little tirade on the value of marriage didn't spin this thing off track, this will almost certainly do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 13, 2006 Share Posted May 13, 2006 It would not help health care it woul;d actually raise your premiums on health care same as making it legal for gays to get married it would raise your health care premiums RRRRiiiigggghhhhtttt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 No, I'm implying that there IS tremendous value in the institution of marriage, in direct response to a person who implied (by asking about it) that there was not.I very specifically have not taken a position on the issue of legalizing prostitution. fair enough. I have also worked with children (the past 2 summers, and am probably going to this summer again), and I can agree how different they can act. Like you said though, it is almost subjective, as some one-parent children are better off than some of the two-parent children. It also depends on the beliefs and child-raising practices of the parents as well in my opinion, and a two-parent household usually is better off that way. It still doesn't change my stance on prostitution being legalized though, because I think most of these people who usually hire them while married are the type to have other consistent marriage problems anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I voted in favor legalization because I'm... Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9_to_42_td Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 In some parts of Nevada its legal and its no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Lets not let facts get in the way of an issue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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