rincewind Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 again: see 7 years old.. Diversity at Middle School I can see. So you should teach kids that being different is ok? Should you allow them to grow cold of it up until middle school when it may be to late to break that mold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 there are a list of topics we are not allowed to approach or answer questions about... they include homosexuality, masturbation, abortion, and birth control. I can understand not wanting to teach those topics, even if I disagree with it. However, refusing to answer those questions or at least help kids find the information they're looking for is, in my opinion, a terrible approach. Kids can find anything they want on the internet, and at that age they frequently don't have the experience to discriminate between a reliable source and an unreliable one. I'd much rather see children getting their information from the school system than Joe's Masturbation Homepage. If you don't believe 5th graders are looking at sex on the internet, you need to get your head out of the sand. (That wasn't directed at you personally, MissU28.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Now, all of that stuff about tolerance, and Mark Twain, and "what about Beauty and the Beast" aside, though: I do think the school went too far, here. I have no belief that, if some present-day Twain were to write a story in which one of the characters were gay, then the book should be banned. That doesn't mean the school should run out, grap a fairy tale (surprised nobody's used that term, yet ) and change the sex of one of the characters just to prove that they can. If the school wants to teach diversity, then just show Beauty and the Beast. Or Shreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 So you should teach kids that being different is ok? Should you allow them to grow cold of it up until middle school when it may be to late to break that mold? Sexual education should be middle school... And homosexual's are born that way not indoctrinated from what i've heard so there is no "mold" to break. My original point was: Prince kissing princess = ewww. Prince kissing prince = discussion, and if the school is admitting to teaching diversity, they are willing to discuss... I'd prefer being notified about my 7 year old daughter being taught sex in elementary school... Shrek Kissing fiona = ewww even though their princess and troll and obviously bestiality... Another word I'd prefer my daughter not know for a while. And I'm sure if they read a book to 7 year olds without parental warning about slavery and it was o.k. "back then"... I'm pretty sure the African-American parents would be quite upset also. That whole curriculum thing is only effective if you actually put what your teaching IN IT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Sexual education should be middle school... And hom0sexual's are born that way not indoctrinated from what i've hear so there is no "mold" to break. Are we talking about diversity or tolerence towards hom0sexuality? In my eyes diversity is pretty much always a good thing. My original point was:Prince kissing princess = ewww. Prince kissing prince = discussion, and if the school is admitting to teaching diversity, they are willing to discuss... I'd prefer being notified about my 7 year old daughter being taught sex in elementary school... Shrek Kissing fiona = ewww even though their princess and troll and obviously bestialty... Another word I'd prefer my daughter not know for a while. Again, i don't see how this is sexual education - its just a kiss. Explain it that some princes like to kiss other princes and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Are we talking about diversity or tolerence towards hom0sexuality? In my eyes diversity is pretty much always a good thing.Again, i don't see how this is sexual education - its just a kiss. Explain it that some princes like to kiss other princes and leave it at that. Give me a scenario where you show them and then "leave it at that". For a school of all places.. Isn't that the opposite of teaching? If you show a student something they have never seen before you are obligated to explain why???? I don't teach my 7 or 3 year old quite a few things... for some reason they have no reason to know the inner workings of this: they need to know: Reading, Writing, Math, P.E., Everyone in the class is her friend except Christopher who punched her.. Tying shoes, spelling bee's, Ocean was this weeks bonus word... Beastiality and Diversity are too hard right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Give me a scenario where you show them and then "leave it at that". For a school of all places.. Isn't that the opposite of teaching? If you show a student something they have never seen before you are obligated to explain why????I don't teach my 7 or 3 year old quite a few things... for some reason they have no reason to know the inner workings of this: they need to know: Reading, Writing, Math, P.E., Everyone in the class is her friend except Christopher who punched her.. Tying shoes, spelling bee's, Ocean was this weeks bonus word... Beastiality and Diversity are too hard right now... Bestiality? Wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Give me a scenario where you show them and then "leave it at that". For a school of all places.. Isn't that the opposite of teaching? If you show a student something they have never seen before you are obligated to explain why???? Actually i said "teach them that some princes like to kiss other princes" why is there a need to teach more than that? You don't need to go into any sexual situations. What is your response when they ask why a boy likes to kiss a girl? If you have an answer for that, you have an answer for why a boy likes to kiss a boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Just a kiss between the prince and the prince. Basically, if the children are innocent, they won't think a man kissing another man is a big deal. It doesn't say anything about sex, which is a wonderful way to misconstrue the story. Kissing in general is gross and icky at that stage, so ideally the prince kissing the princess elicits the same response ans the prince kissing the prince. Much ado about nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Lets also remeber that gay marriage is LEGAL in Massachusetts. Their marriages are just as valid there as anyone elses. If the state condones the relationship, why can't two dudes smooch in a book? Yes, gay marriage is legal in the Communistwealth. That doesn't mean that everyone here agrees with it, likes it, or accepts it. Especially since the CITIZENS never got a say in the matter. Let's also remember that just because something is legal doesn't necessarily make it Right. It is an absurd argument to suggest that it pushes a gay sexual agenda. In Sleeping Beauty, a comatose chick is assaulted (smooched) by a guy she doesn't know, wakes up, and swoons. Does that condone anonomyous random hook-ups with drunk, wasted girls? Better get it out of the classroom! It's not so much a "gay sexual agenda" as acceptance of a lifestyle that's likely not in keeping with the morals and values of many of these kids' families. As for the "fairy tale" aspect of this whole thing... I'm all for teaching kids the REAL Grimm's Fairy Tales. In their original versions. You know, the ones that were designed to scare the crap out of kids and keep them in line through fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 Bestiality? Wtf? You have to read every response to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Logically, Larry has dominated the arguments in this thread. His point on it's failure to have the right agenda is spot on. The book doesn't do anything more then include a gay character and for that it's viewed as agenda driven while it's straight counter part is seen to have no agenda at all. Great points. Having said that the fact remains that the topic is homosexuality and like it or not what appears to be the majority of the country just isn't cool with it. The school knows this, the teacher knows this, the author of the book knows this... So another question in this discussion worth looking at is - if any reasonable person could see that this material wouldn't go over well with parents why did the school do it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 always remember though, no Massachusetts politicians are ever liberals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Having said that the fact remains that the topic is homosexuality and like it or not what appears to be the majority of the country just isn't cool with it. The school knows this, the teacher knows this, the author of the book knows this... So another question in this discussion worth looking at is - if any reasonable person could see that this material wouldn't go over well with parents why did the school do it anyway? Evolution is not fully accepted, yet it is still taught... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 always remember though, no Massachusetts politicians are ever liberals What does that have to do with this teacher reading a book involving a gay character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 You have to read every response to get it. Sorry, I assumed that some peeps were equating it with homosexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Evolution is not fully accepted, yet it is still taught...I agree but science isn't a morality debate. Some want it to be but it's clear they aren't the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 What does that have to do with this teacher reading a book involving a gay character?Nothing. AFC is just working on his partisan quota for the day. 1 down 99 to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Nothing. AFC is just working on his partisan quota for the day. 1 down 99 to go. "Washington Wizards win game 2 tonight" = "liberal media forces women to have abortions" in AFC-speak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Monk Fan Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Actually i said "teach them that some princes like to kiss other princes" why is there a need to teach more than that? You don't need to go into any sexual situations. What is your response when they ask why a boy likes to kiss a girl? If you have an answer for that, you have an answer for why a boy likes to kiss a boy. If you have to ask "why is there a need to teach more than that?" than you probably don't have any kids. The questions rarely ever stop at one. I've got three kids (14, 4 and 18 months) and a wife who teaches second grade. I can tell you from experience that boys kissing girls illicits the "ewww!" response, but no questions; same-sex kissing illicits a steady stream of very uncomfortable questions. At that age children are very innocent, but they're also instinctually quite attuned to the natural order of things. Gay kissing "feels" wrong to them and they want it explained -- pushing for as much detail as they can get. This fact may be inconvenient to your policital stance, but that dosen't make it any less true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissU28 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I can understand not wanting to teach those topics, even if I disagree with it. However, refusing to answer those questions or at least help kids find the information they're looking for is, in my opinion, a terrible approach.Kids can find anything they want on the internet, and at that age they frequently don't have the experience to discriminate between a reliable source and an unreliable one. I'd much rather see children getting their information from the school system than Joe's Masturbation Homepage. If you don't believe 5th graders are looking at sex on the internet, you need to get your head out of the sand. (That wasn't directed at you personally, MissU28.) oh i know this... but that's the law of the school system, and I follow it. If a child asks a question like that, I refer him to his parents. Any question that is asked that we can't answer, we have to say a pretty scripted answer that basically tells them to ask their parents. We don't want angry parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 If you have to ask "why is there a need to teach more than that?" than you probably don't have any kids. The questions rarely ever stop at one.I've got three kids (14, 4 and 18 months) and a wife who teaches second grade. I can tell you from experience that boys kissing girls illicits the "ewww!" response, but no questions; same-sex kissing illicits a steady stream of very uncomfortable questions. At that age children are very innocent, but they're also instinctually quite attuned to the natural order of things. Gay kissing "feels" wrong to them and they want it explained -- pushing for as much detail as they can get. This fact may be inconvenient to your policital stance, but that dosen't make it any less true. So you've had your wife read about boys kissing boys to the class? Gay kissing feels wrong to them, but boys kissing girls illicits no questions? Do your kids know about homosexuality? Does your 4 year old pester you with questions about it every day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 If you have to ask "why is there a need to teach more than that?" than you probably don't have any kids. The questions rarely ever stop at one.I've got three kids (14, 4 and 18 months) and a wife who teaches second grade. I can tell you from experience that boys kissing girls illicits the "ewww!" response, but no questions; same-sex kissing illicits a steady stream of very uncomfortable questions. At that age children are very innocent, but they're also instinctually quite attuned to the natural order of things. Gay kissing "feels" wrong to them and they want it explained -- pushing for as much detail as they can get. This fact may be inconvenient to your policital stance, but that dosen't make it any less true. Not inconvenient to me at all - i'm all for teaching just as much about homosexuality as about hetrosexuality. I think the problem here is everybody says that the question that follow will be uncomfortable - i say BS. Teach the kid there is nothing wrong with it and that some princes like to kiss other princes. There is NO NEED to make this a sexual education issue - its just a kiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mass_SkinsFan Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 What does that have to do with this teacher reading a book involving a gay character? come on rince. You've always seemed to be a smart guy in the posts of yours that I've read. I'm sure you can put 2+2 together and come up with 22. I highly doubt this book would not have been read to kids in a classroom in Texas. Yet it was read to kids in a classroom in Massachusetts. There's a great cultural, political and moral chasm between those two places and I think that plays a lot into why this book was read in one place and wouldn't be read in the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 come on rince. You've always seemed to be a smart guy in the posts of yours that I've read. I'm sure you can put 2+2 together and come up with 22.I highly doubt this book would not have been read to kids in a classroom in Texas. Yet it was read to kids in a classroom in Massachusetts. There's a great cultural, political and moral chasm between those two places and I think that plays a lot into why this book was read in one place and wouldn't be read in the other. Texas is more immoral the Mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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