Seriously this is getting ridiculous. a rant.

[Kosher Ham]

Thoughts from another poster...

Like our beloved league, I see this board heading toward an empasse. Something needs to be done about the handling of repetetive posts, because it is fast becoming a dividing issue here on the board. Somewhat like the NFL's haves and havenots, we have two sides to this argument, both with valid points but in this case there is only one with any real power to do anything about it.

Side 1: "I am sick and tired of sifting through all of this repetetive drivel to find something new and interesting. Close all these repetetive threads immediately and ban the assclowns that keep posting them! This is getting out of hand."

Side 2: "Deal with it! That's the nature of a message board. I should have as much right to post my thoughts as anyone else does. This is a place where people are supposed to be able to come and interact with other redskin fans, not be insulted and marginalized just because they think like many others"

Both of these sides have a point. Now the question becomes what do we do about it? I for one am sick of all the ****ing and would like to find an alternative. I'd like for us to use this thread as a forum for ideas on how to create a better extremeskins for all of us. Please post serious ideas on how to improve the board, and please try to consider the efforts required of the moderators when you formulate your ideas. I'll start it off myself.

I'd like to see a little more seperation of the forums. I think it would make it easier to find what you prefer to read about or discuss, rather than having everything Redskins related in the stadium. By this I mean having a specific draft discussion forum, free agency forum, etc. to break things down a bit and limit the post volume in each individual forum thereby making it a bit easier for users to find what they want. You don't want to read about Vernon Davis being a beast for the 5 gagillianth time? Ok, don't go in the draft forum. Mods would still have to oversee things, but It would be less merging and more moving things around, hopefully with a net gain of zero or even a loss in required effort for them.

My other complementary idea could be a little bit dividing in and of itself, but I'll float it anyway becuase I think it could work. Why not have a "geezers only forum" (maybe call it the club seats section or something) for those individuals who have been around, paid their dues and proven they can behave. Make it a limited access forum for those posters who have a certain number of posts or above, and have behaved themselves. This would be a way that the vets around here could get away from the "kids" if you know what I mean and have more meaningfull discussions without having to scroll through 125 posts of "what he said" to find what they want. It serves both side's purposes. It gives those who have earned it a break from the madness that can be the open forums, but also allows the everyday user the freedom to post his thoughts on the Lavar situation in the regular forum without drawing the ire of all the vets and getting his thread closed or merged. This would allow the mods to back off on all the merges etc and hopefully cut their workload down a bit. It also offers posters something to work toward besides a cooler avatar, and provides an incentive for good behavior. One thing I would suggest is that users below the post # cutoff should be allowed to view the threads, but not be allowed to post in them. Like guest access. We may be cretans but we should not be denied a look at the enlightened one's ideas. LOL!

So, anyone else have any ideas for the greater good?

[stevenaa]

Thank you for your reply. couple of points that I wish you would've addressed though.

1) Why not prop the ignore button?

2) is it a techinal issue? (you probably can't answer that)

What you want this place to be and what it has become are two different things...I may be on the wrong side of the fence, but I think that you are fighting a losing battle, unless some drastic foundational changes take place here.

that said I respect the fact that the Mods and Vets want high quality discusions...I do also. I just don't want it at the expense of the low quality ones either.

Here's an Idea...Start another forum whose members are voted in by originally the Mods then the Mod/Vet members. membership in that forum would be contingent upon your posting of quality threads and posts. call it the locker room or something. that way it will keep the vets in the old-school style of EXtream skins that they are missing so much and it would be an incentive for those of us lowly Newbies in the Stadium to contribute the type of quality that would get us voted into the Locker room...

...I'm trying to be proactive here because of all the bad things that go on here the freedom that the toadies jump on is IMHO not one of them.

The problem is that the poor quality posts happen in such quantity, that the quality posts often get pushed into obscurity. The swarm should help to educate new posters so that they contribute to the forum in the manner that is expected. This isn't a forum that strives to give equal posting rights to every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to post whatever. This forum demands that you participate in a quality manner.

Creating a special forum for vets is not the answer. That would only result in the current forum turning into total chaos. The vets are an important part of the self moderation that occurs here. How do you expect new posters to learn what is expected if they're only posting amongst themselves?

[Big Weirdo]

We will find a way to allow community participation by assigning "reputation" values to posters that the community assigns. Based on that reputation, the poster can either not post new threads or can not post at all. If we can't get that working, well, we'll just start hacking away

Oh god. Me and the other Eagle fans are screwed if a reputation system is put into place.

[G-Prime]

Here's a novel idea.. Don't jack up post counts for useless threads by saying "Use the search" 20 times. Ignore it and go about your business so it quickly fades into the background until a mod has a chance to close it or whatever. If I see a thread that has 3 + pages of posts I want to go read it because more then likely there is interesting discussion going on.

[G-Prime]

Oh god. Me and the other Eagle fans are screwed if a reputation system is put into place.

There's more then one of you? wtf Art we got more then one eagles fan here yet all your worried about is the duplicate posts!

your fired ;p

[stevenaa]

"Side 2: "Deal with it! That's the nature of a message board. I should have as much right to post my thoughts as anyone else does. This is a place where people are supposed to be able to come and interact with other redskin fans, not be insulted and marginalized just because they think like many others""

No one has any "rights" here. As a member you have an obligation to follow the rules and guidelines. If everyone did this simple thing, none of this would be a problem. I'd set up a warning system. Kind of a 3 strikes and your out deal. If you prove you can't follow the rules and be a productive member, why shouldn't you be banned permanently? I'd skip the whole reputation rating thing and go right to hacking away.

[skinscantbestopped]

HOLD UP! ...who gave anybody on the board the right to tell another fan that there questions or concerns are not important enough to post on this board?? ...i didnt know there was a standard for being a fan and that there was a certain level you have to reach before you can speak on or ask questions about a team you love....THIS THREAD in my opinion is exactly the type of thread you guys are talking about...(needless)

BUT (my point) who am I to say you guys cant make up a tread about this nothin of a topic and go on an on about it

We need to start appreciating the "newbies" becouse they bring more exposure to the site, witch means more attention and more money for the producers to bring us the TV INTERVIEWS and the RADIO SHOW and all the things that this site brings to us as fans...being a webmaster with my own website I know how important traffic is

If you guys dont start welcoming the traffic alil better you might find yourself WITHOUT witch is what I dont want to happen...Im dont post to often but I like to hear from memebers like ART and all the rest of the guys becouse I read everyday...im a die hard fan but you guys gotta think about the future of the site becouse your turning people off with all the complaints thats really doing nothing but drawing a line between redskin fans....theres better ways of handling the situation

[stevenaa]

Oh god. Me and the other Eagle fans are screwed if a reputation system is put into place.

Nah. The I'm sure the reputation system will be driven on a basis of following forum rules. Dissenting ideas won't ever be a problem. :eaglesuck

[Big Weirdo]

There's more then one of you? wtf Art we got more then one eagles fan here yet all your worried about is the duplicate posts!

your fired ;p

Bahaha. We're everywhere. Waiting to circle over ES to attack at any moment.

Here are my thoughts on the board as a fellow poster and rival fan. I post and read here because you guys really do put out the news faster than even most media outlets (as I've said over and over.) Plus I really like the atmosphere around here. The fans are nice and the mods are too as long as you follow the rules.

As far as the 8 million threads on the front page I think that's going to happen no matter what. Everyone sees that Lavar has been released on ESPN so they all rush to the computer and post it. Now lets say they do use the search function and no one has posted anything at that time. Maybe, just maybe, all 10,000 people searched at the exact same moment and then posted at the exact same moment. Ok, maybe I'm stretching.

The point is I think for the high volume of traffic through here it's going to happen. Regardless of what the mods or any of the vet posters do. I, for one, think the mods have done a good job keeping **** clean. Especially lately. Usually duplicate threads don't get more than 4 or 5 posts before they're shut down.

I especially enjoy when TK comes in to shut the party down. Vive!

[stevenaa]

HOLD UP! ...who gave anybody on the board the right to tell another fan that there questions or concerns are not important enough to post on this board?? ...i didnt know there was a standard for being a fan and that there was a certain level you have to reach before you can speak on or ask questions about a team you love....THIS THREAD in my opinion is exactly the type of thread you guys are talking about...(needless)

BUT (my point) who am I to say you guys cant make up a tread about this nothin of a topic and go on an on about it

We need to start appreciating the "newbies" becouse they bring more exposure to the site, witch means more attention and more money for the producers to bring us the TV INTERVIEWS and the RADIO SHOW and all the things that this site brings to us as fans...being a webmaster with my own website I know how important traffic is

If you guys dont start welcoming the traffic alil better you might find yourself WITHOUT witch is what I dont want to happen...Im dont post to often but I like to hear from memebers like ART and all the rest of the guys becouse I read everyday...im a die hard fan but you guys gotta think about the future of the site becouse your turning people off with all the complaints thats really doing nothing but drawing a line between redskin fans....theres better ways of handling the situation

There isn't a standard for being a fan. But, there is a standard for being a member of this community. Following the rules and making thoughtful posts is expected. Those who can't do that, won't continue to be welcomed. The only people who will be turned off by these complaints are the ones who want to go post crazy without using any common sense.

[Heidenreich]

Here's a novel idea.. Don't jack up post counts for useless threads by saying "Use the search" 20 times. Ignore it and go about your business so it quickly fades into the background until a mod has a chance to close it or whatever. If I see a thread that has 3 + pages of posts I want to go read it because more then likely there is interesting discussion going on.

I agree 100%. I'll click on a thread (for example another lavar thread) and the original poster will say "Lavar this, lavar that, blah blah blah" That will be followed by 72 posts saying "Use the search function", "There are other threads about this, idiot", etc.... If people would just hit back instead of posting things like that, the extra threads would fall off the front page very quickly

As far as the 8 million threads on the front page I think that's going to happen no matter what. Everyone sees that Lavar has been released on ESPN so they all rush to the computer and post it. Now lets say they do use the search function and no one has posted anything at that time. Maybe, just maybe, all 10,000 people searched at the exact same moment and then posted at the exact same moment. Ok, maybe I'm stretching.

The point is I think for the high volume of traffic through here it's going to happen. Regardless of what the mods or any of the vet posters do. I, for one, think the mods have done a good job keeping **** clean. Especially lately. Usually duplicate threads don't get more than 4 or 5 posts before they're shut down.

I don't even think multiple posts about a breaking news item (with a source/link) is a problem. The problem arises when people make a new thread 2 days later just to rant about it.....

[Big Weirdo]

I don't even think multiple posts about a breaking news item (with a source/link) is a problem. The problem arises when people make a new thread 2 days later just to rant about it.....

That is true, too. I can't offer up a solution for that because thats just plain stupidity.

[skinscantbestopped]

There isn't a standard for being a fan. But, there is a standard for being a member of this community. Following the rules and making thoughtful posts is expected. Those who can't do that, won't continue to be welcomed. The only people who will be turned off by these complaints are the ones who want to go post crazy without using any common sense.

IM SORRY... I didnt know that your opinion of whats "thoughtful" was the standard of this website...this needs to be anounced as you sign in...AY FOLKS, IF STEVENAA DOESNT THINK YOUR COMMENTS ARE "THOUGHTFUL" YOU CANT POST...SO BEFORE YOU DO, RUN IT BY STEVENAA SO FOR JUDGING FIRST...SEE IF ITS RELAVENT...

you do realize that sometimes people dont think what YOU have to say is "thoughtful"

face it...the site is a success!

TAKE THE BAD WITH THE GOOD or you an the other TEN members that feel the way you do can start convo's on yahoo...aol...myspace...its alot of internet out there for you

[Art]

IM SORRY... I didnt know that your opinion of whats "thoughtful" was the standard of this website...this needs to be anounced as you sign in...AY FOLKS, IF STEVENAA DOESNT THINK YOUR COMMENTS ARE "THOUGHTFUL" YOU CANT POST...SO BEFORE YOU DO, RUN IT BY STEVENAA SO FOR JUDGING FIRST...SEE IF ITS RELAVENT...

you do realize that sometimes people dont think what YOU have to say is "thoughtful"

face it...the site is a success!

TAKE THE BAD WITH THE GOOD or you an the other TEN members that feel the way you do can start convo's on yahoo...aol...myspace...its alot of internet out there for you

This is right.

This site is a tremendous success. And, striving to find a balance between the success and the community that made it a success is what we're aiming to do and we'll try a number of things to get us there.

[tizzod]

HOLD UP! ...who gave anybody on the board the right to tell another fan that there questions or concerns are not important enough to post on this board?? ...i didnt know there was a standard for being a fan and that there was a certain level you have to reach before you can speak on or ask questions about a team you love....THIS THREAD in my opinion is exactly the type of thread you guys are talking about...(needless)

BUT (my point) who am I to say you guys cant make up a tread about this nothin of a topic and go on an on about it

We need to start appreciating the "newbies" becouse they bring more exposure to the site, witch means more attention and more money for the producers to bring us the TV INTERVIEWS and the RADIO SHOW and all the things that this site brings to us as fans...being a webmaster with my own website I know how important traffic is

If you guys dont start welcoming the traffic alil better you might find yourself WITHOUT witch is what I dont want to happen...Im dont post to often but I like to hear from memebers like ART and all the rest of the guys becouse I read everyday...im a die hard fan but you guys gotta think about the future of the site becouse your turning people off with all the complaints thats really doing nothing but drawing a line between redskin fans....theres better ways of handling the situation

I think you might be missing the point, and I notice this coming out in a lot of these threads when they pop up.

No one is saying that people can't express their opinions or thoughts or whatever. Not once has that occurred. What they are saying is, if someone posts a thread that says, "how will Lavar's release hurt the Skins?" and you have a response to it, respond THERE. There's no need for, an hour later, another thread being started saying, "how will the D fare now that Lavar is gone?" It's essentially the same idea. Post it in the thread that is already there. How could that possibly be censoring your thoughts in any way?

And I've said before, if people have a big "look at me!" complex, just be assured, just because no one quotes your post or directly responds to it, it doesn't mean it is not being at least READ.

It actually seems to me to be quite a simple concept. I don't realize why some people have to be beat over the head with it.

Anyway, continue.

[skinscantbestopped]

I think you might be missing the point, and I notice this coming out in a lot of these threads when they pop up.

No one is saying that people can't express their opinions or thoughts or whatever. Not once has that occurred. What they are saying is, if someone posts a thread that says, "how will Lavar's release hurt the Skins?" and you have a response to it, respond THERE. There's no need for, an hour later, another thread being started saying, "how will the D fare now that Lavar is gone?" It's essentially the same idea. Post it in the thread that is already there. How could that possibly be censoring your thoughts in any way?

And I've said before, if people have a big "look at me!" complex, just be assured, just because no one quotes your post or directly responds to it, it doesn't mean it is not being at least READ.

It actually seems to me to be quite a simple concept. I don't realize why some people have to be beat over the head with it.

Anyway, continue.

i TOTALLY understand what YOUR saying...but what has been being said in other threads at times would make a "newbie" think twice before posting or even wanting to post becouse some just have been nasty about it...my view of it is...this is a business also...the people bring the sponsors and the sponsors bring the money so I can sit back on a monday in march an watch JG do thing i've always wanted to see...i mean its like the season is still goin on...this site brings so much to a fan that you gotta take the bad wit the good...of course there are post and threads that might be alil stupid or maybe somebody hit submit on a thread an actually didnt see the other thread there...ITS POSSIBLE!...these things can be worked out on a administrative level and there are ways to contact them about what needs to be done...but when you ridicule and make some fans feel like there not up to par to post here ur turning away MONEY...money that keeps this thing goin...we should welcome everybody possible and maybe next year they'll have a reality show in the offseason or somethin...i just love it and dont wanna see it go away for stupid reason

[Art]

i TOTALLY understand what YOUR saying...but what has been being said in other threads at times would make a "newbie" think twice before posting or even wanting to post becouse some just have been nasty about it...my view of it is...this is a business also...the people bring the sponsors and the sponsors bring the money so I can sit back on a monday in march an watch JG do thing i've always wanted to see...i mean its like the season is still goin on...this site brings so much to a fan that you gotta take the bad wit the good...of course there are post and threads that might be alil stupid or maybe somebody hit submit on a thread an actually didnt see the other thread there...ITS POSSIBLE!...these things can be worked out on a administrative level and there are ways to contact them about what needs to be done...but when you ridicule and make some fans feel like there not up to par to post here ur turning away MONEY...money that keeps this thing goin...we should welcome everybody possible and maybe next year they'll have a reality show in the offseason or somethin...i just love it and dont wanna see it go away for stupid reason

A couple of things need clarity here.

There isn't a cross between Extremeskins and the Redskins such that if the Redskins raise ticket prices, ES should suffer anyone's anger, or, if someone here gets pounded or banned, the team should suffer any anger. The Redskins run the Redskins, maintain this site from a technical perspective and have free reign to brand the name how they see fit. We maintain the site.

If we turn a fan away from here because they aren't a good member of this community, it is not a sign they are not a good member of the fan community. This is a managed neighborhood. Like many of us live in with our homes, we abide the terms of the association, or we don't live there. Doesn't mean you don't live .

Also, there is no money associated with this site. Notice, we don't have ads. We don't have pop-ups. NONE of you are getting mailers from the Redskins. The mods and staff here get NOTHING -- NOT ONE PENNY -- for maintaining this community.

Money isn't what makes this community go. Intelligence, passion and respect do. Lack any, and you'll have a hard time here.

[tizzod]

i TOTALLY understand what YOUR saying...but what has been being said in other threads at times would make a "newbie" think twice before posting or even wanting to post becouse some just have been nasty about it...my view of it is...this is a business also...the people bring the sponsors and the sponsors bring the money so I can sit back on a monday in march an watch JG do thing i've always wanted to see...i mean its like the season is still goin on...this site brings so much to a fan that you gotta take the bad wit the good...of course there are post and threads that might be alil stupid or maybe somebody hit submit on a thread an actually didnt see the other thread there...ITS POSSIBLE!...these things can be worked out on a administrative level and there are ways to contact them about what needs to be done...but when you ridicule and make some fans feel like there not up to par to post here ur turning away MONEY...money that keeps this thing goin...we should welcome everybody possible and maybe next year they'll have a reality show in the offseason or somethin...i just love it and dont wanna see it go away for stupid reason

I'm definitely not a fan of ridiculing someone or saying how stupid their post is. Those posts annoy me, especially the ones where that is all that is posted. "Dumbest thread ever" "STFU" I can't stand that. You are right, there will always be idiots, this is still Earth and it's impossible to get away from them. In a place like this though, hopefully they can still have an eye kept on them and be checked! At least that is what I hope for....but not at the expense of blasting them. They don't know they are dumb. Try explaining to them why their stuff makes no sense. Who knows. It just might work on occasion. :whoknows: More importantly, it could help make this place better, and hopefully that's what we're all striving for.

[skinscantbestopped]

you mean to tell me that i can buy a jersey here, find tickets, mugs, an all this and there's no money bein made here....PLEASE!! this is not a "neighborhood" this is the WASHINGTON REDSKINS...a COMPANY...a BUSINESS...in ALL aspects...an the fact that the team runs it is even more reason to know that...you dont need pop up's when you have your own fan base in place already...why pay outside companies...the team does not need that...thats what I call "husslin backwards"...but thats besides the point

the problems that are being brought up are easy handled administratively and there is no need to speak out at the community about it becouse it only brings division within the fans when it can be so easily overlooked and corrected by managment

[Om]

I keep seeing people suggest that "newbies" are looked down upon here, even sometimes by the Staff. That could not be farther from the truth.

The ONLY problem we have with any group, be they newbies or original members, is with the content of their posts. We get hundreds of new registrants a month, and probably 90% of them blend in and become contributing members. Many of them very quickly establish a presence here. That kind of poster has never, and will never, encounter any problem here from a staff member. If they encounter one from a veteran poster simply for being "new", they are encouraged to let a staff member know and we'll probably do the woodshed thing on the vet.

It's the few who register and hit the ground running by flooding the board with spam-like posts that add nothing to the discussion, or worse, reduce it to mindless flame-wars, that everyone here does and should have a problem with and do their best to either fix or eliminate. How to go about that is an ongoing discussion among the staff, and also on the board in threads such as these.

And yes, that goes for "vets" as well.

But can we please, at least, dispell once and for all the notion that simply being "newbie" is somehow a scarlet letter around here. Nobody here was born with 5000 posts. We were ALL newbies once, remember.

[KirkNC]

Hopefully what this thread does is 'open the eyes' or 'enlighten' posters to the anoyance level of dribble.

I would guess while not rectifying the situation completly this alone may help many to 'see the light'.

Nice post, thanks for saying what many I imagine have been feeling.

[Art]

you mean to tell me that i can buy a jersey here, find tickets, mugs, an all this and there's no money bein made here....PLEASE!! this is not a "neighborhood" this is the WASHINGTON REDSKINS...a COMPANY...a BUSINESS...in ALL aspects...an the fact that the team runs it is even more reason to know that...you dont need pop up's when you have your own fan base in place already...why pay outside companies...the team does not need that...thats what I call "husslin backwards"...but thats besides the point

the problems that are being brought up are easy handled administratively and there is no need to speak out at the community about it becouse it only brings division within the fans when it can be so easily overlooked and corrected by managment

No. No money is made here at ES. Not a dime.

When you click on the links above that take you to Redskins.com and you purchase various things, they may make money, but, we do not. You never see us pushing anything on any of you because we don't need to. We don't work on commission. We don't get paid for page hits. We don't make money on Redskins.com Shop sales. We maintain this community because we love the Redskins.

Our price is access and the ability to live that particular dream. We are not employees of the Redskins and we derive no revenue at all for the maintenance of these forums.

As for the things brought up here, no, they aren't things that can be dealt with administratively. They can only be dealt with by the community. We're not here to hold hands. A division of fans on THIS divide is good because one side is right and the other is not. You don't have to like it. But, you have to appreciate that is the reality.

[Dallsux]

How lewd.

Art, I like your idea, but you do have to be careful with this (allow me to counsel you, for a moment ). I agree with the original poster's thoughts that there is too much garbage floating on the front page, or there has been lately. But removing someone's ability to post and to start a thread are two completely different things. Cutting down on the meaningless threads is a good thing. Meaningless posts are going to be a little harder to regulate, I think. At that point, it becomes extremely subjective; caution is necessary, that's all.

Not that its a bad thing. For instance, I considered just posting the continuation to the Doc Holliday quote posted above, but thought that would be frivilous and silly, so had to make up this "advice" to you instead. I supose that worked out well...

But isn't that what we are trying to encourage as well? I, too, almost posted a silly post about Art not liking me & the Board picking on me (obviously, not necessarily the case...I don't think. ), but felt this was not the place or time for it. I think this society should be viewed much like America, only with several Presidents, rather than one. We are FREE to post what we choose, but with our FREEDOM comes RESPONSIBILITY & that responsibility is to post...errr, uhh, responsibly. While I sometimes, myself only respond with 2 or 3 word comments, it is oft times simply because someone has already stated everything that I wanted to say. So, I simply say, "I agree" or "I disagree." Because I DO want the Board to know where I stand on that particular issue, without repeating almost word for word what someone else has already said (although, I realize that sometimes, in a 30 page thread, that is going to happen no matter what).

There are some things that, as part of this society (& a great one it is, I might add), I have to live with. My feeling on this subject is that there are good & bad things about ALL societies & we, as part of that society, have to live with both. Unless, you choose to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Right now the Board is cluttered because there is so much to talk about, so many opinions to be heard, so many fights just waiting to happen. Even though I know that the mods & owners are ALWAYS looking for new & creative ways to better this society, I also believe (& correct me if I'm wrong) that they have consistently put the responsibility of maintaining this GREAT society back onto the vets of the Board, including myself. Art has made that point several times at this point, bringing up the fact that vets are causing some of the problems by posting meaningless threads/posts. Maybe I'm in that group, maybe I'm not. But, as a vet of this Board, I am aware of my responsibilty to maintain a high standard around here & always try my best NOT to post meaningless crap...at least repetitively anyway. Because, let's face it, NO ONE is exempt from posting meaningless crap at some point. But as I said, we enjoy a freedom on this Board & it is our responsibility to maintain that freedom to the best of our ability. We, especially we vets, should not be expecting the mods to tell us what is acceptable & what is not acceptable on this Board. Plain & simple.

I said all that to say, "I agree."

[feeshta]

Hopefully what this thread does is 'open the eyes' or 'enlighten' posters to the anoyance level of dribble.

I would guess while not rectifying the situation completly this alone may help many to 'see the light'.

Nice post, thanks for saying what many I imagine have been feeling.

I know I have also been feeling it, in fact I posted a very similar post myself and got a mild scolding for posting a double. Rest assured Ryman that I was not piggybacking on your idea or any such thing, I simply somehow failed to see your post on the front page bofore I made mine. Guess it was lost in all the Lavar threads somewhere LOL! I guess great minds just think alike.

Like someone wise once said, I feel the best compromise is one which doesn't please either side. The idea I floated in my post earlier, which SkinsandTerps was kind enough to repost here for me in an earlier post, would probably not sit real well with anyone at first because of the elitist undertones that come with it. I think that once newer posters realise that they are free to post at will though, that the issues would work themselves out. The key to it's success or failure would be how it's handled, and I believe that our illustrious mds could find a diplomatic solution.

[skinscantbestopped]

well maybe its just somethin i dont understand...i can accept that...no hard feelins...