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Seriously this is getting ridiculous. a rant.


Ryman of the North

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you guys are a bounch of sicki's...i guess you all have nothing better to do in your life than to freak out if you happen to read the same thing twice...its not the end of the world!!

Let me make an example of this.

Many people have been able to coherently, fairly and intelligently offer a reasonable counter position to the one that opened this thread. Those have been discussed and debated in the best example of how this board should work and has worked.

Then, you arrive and post this, as a perfect post of what we're trying to avoid. So, take a few days off, read the board, and understand, if you can't speak more intelligently or reasonably, it's best to silently agree with the side you agree with.

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well maybe its just somethin i dont understand...i can accept that...no hard feelins...

No worries guy.

We're just fans. Exactly like you. We're not businessmen. The payment I received was running out onto the field after the Redskins beat the Cowboys on Monday Night Football and hugging Renaldo Wynn on the 50-yard-line. I get paid in a way that surpasses anything else I could ever have dreampt of. I just don't get money :).

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This recommendation seems to always fall on deaf ears but here it is once again. Many posters seem more interested in increasing their post count than adding something meaningful to a discussion. Therefore, you end up with a lot of posts that are merely one or two words. I recommend you delete the post count.

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We will find a way to allow community participation by assigning "reputation" values to posters that the community assigns. Based on that reputation, the poster can either not post new threads or can not post at all.

Uh-oh. Well, nice knowing you guys!

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Uh-oh. Well, nice knowing you guys!

Dude. You may be a jerk, but, I'll personally protect you from a negative reputation just because you strive not to be liked :). Now, I may ban you in the process, but you can't have EVERYTHING :).

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Finally, a thoughtful thread filled with thoughtful replies. I am fortunate to be here before it gets to be 15 pages long. This is a situation that has grown as the site and membership has grown.

Although I usually want to add to the conversation to the topics, a 15 page thread is intimidating in that I don't want to repeat something said on page three. This comes down to the "thumb's up" signal or such reply - not very contributing, but you can see where I stood on the topic.

A few months ago this topic was raised and a good analogy was raised. Think of this board as a bar where you can stop in and discuss your favorite team and other topics. (The previous manners upheld on this site were not start a thread that has already been covered and to read the previous pages so as not to repeat.) You want to discuss a topic, but can't because it has already been discussed or you have to read 15 pages to catchup.

This really does change the atmosphere of this site.

Some of the propossals suggested by Art may help this situation, maybe not.

One thing we do know is the one true statement for any situation: "This too will change."

:cheers::cheers::cheers:

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In his closing statement of a quality post, Ryman of the North challenges a "Rant", but I enjoyed reading through this thread to see articulte debate, not much ranting.

In the two months since I joined this site, I have learned a lot about quality posts. In the beginning I thought it was OK to just throw myself into the mix. I thought I had a lot to contribute and began to post. I did not post in excess, but I did post a lot, sometimes meaningless dribble. But as I continue to participate in this forum, I too am discouraged to see thread after thread repeated, as well as, posts just for the sake of posting.

When Mort broke the story about Lavar's release, I knew I was going to be one of the first to post the story, since it was late Sunday night. So when I raced to post the news, I found three different threads had already been posted on the topic so I refrained. I realized at that point what was about to come and for the past three days have witnessed thread after thread on the same topic. And this is not the first topic I have noticed being repeated time and time again. People are even using sneaky thread titles to bring up the same old tired subject: Would TO be a good fit? Antwaan Randle El? ........

I am not about to sit here and say I have a solution to the problems facing this forum as it continues to grow. I can say it is frutrating to read the mindless dribble that goes on and the same topic being posted in a new thread repeatedly. So as a newcomer to this forum, I vow to be more respectful of the guidelines that are here to make this forum function, grow and be the best that it can be.

Also, I would like to thank Ryman of the North and Art for giving me a clearer understanding of the guidelines of this forum. But I would especially like to thank all of the Mods for their tireless effort to manage the board and give us a more functioning forum. Since the LA release you have been working overtime on this Message Board (not chat room) to see that it does not get out of hand! I was going to start a new thread to thank you, but finally found an appropriare thread to place it.

:point2sky

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To think that this problem is caused by newbies is the first problem. The new members don't post that often, and they usually learn their lesson quickly.

The real problem is many veteran posters that the mods seem to adore. These people will post "I agree" or "STFU" or even just post a smilie. Not to call out, but why does the board need to know where cowboyssuckazz stands on a particular issue?

The fact is that there are very very few people who have earned the respect that people will read their post just to see what they said. If you aren't a mod, you aren't on that list (except newshounds). Even if you are a mod, you probably aren't on that list.

My problem with the rating of threads or posters is that it will be the same old popularity contest. The same could be true with having seperate boards. Just because somebody is friendly and posts a lot, it doesn't mean that they every contribute anything meaningful to the discussion.

Idea #2: If you are going to keep post counts, don't count the Tailgate. It's a different world and much more of a community atmosphere than the Stadium. In the Stadium it's either about news or sharing and debating ideas.

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Dude. You may be a jerk, but, I'll personally protect you from a negative reputation just because you strive not to be liked . Now, I may ban you in the process, but you can't have EVERYTHING .

Actually, it would be worse if I ended up with a good reputation: wouldn't that cause the universe to implode?

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Your disagreement is reasonable and even thoughtful, so I thank you for providing it. But, on this particular point, you've put yourself on the wrong side of the fence because WE WILL encourage the Swarm to be the Swarm.

I read the whole thread first, and I sure agree wiith Om, its not "all about newbies" by any means.

And there is great wealth in diversity of thought.

Some dissension will be met with bans, and some will be complimented, as it should be, however subjective.

Still, in any community, I think being openly dismissive and insultingly denigrating towards an agreed-upon policy and the people employing it undermines both, and if unaddressed, erodes support.

I believe this to be so from experience as well as study, even if such actions are hypocritically softened with more expansive argument when an authority figure steps into the picture.

It is very hard to balance freedom of expression with a consistent, effective, and broadly beneficial policy that governs behavior and sets community standards.

But its a normal and necessary part of life, and not everyone should need a cop's influence to co-operate with a socially reasonable standard; a neighbor's request, should suffice.

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Well I checked my pockets and found 2 cents, so here is my opinion. I have a limited time to read this board I usually spend most of my time hunting articles for breaking news.. Personally I check who started the thread and the title if its someone who's opinion I respect or someone I know will have an opinion that I want to see I ckick on their post. If Lavar or Randle El are in the title I usually don't. Some of the better threads I find on page two. If I think its still a revelant thread I might post a short something in it to bump it back to page 1 where I think it belongs. It doesn't take long for a good thread to fall off the front page due to the volume.

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But its a normal and necessary part of life, and not everyone should need a cop's influence to co-operate with a socially reasonable standard; a neighbor's request, should suffice.

In small neighborhoods, that works. But overcrowding changes that. Having too many people living in an area actually makes you less likely to act in a communal manner, and more lkely to act competitively.

Studies in rats have shown that if you increase the number of rats in a cage beyond an acceptable level, they turn to cannibalism. That's what's happening here: it's too crowded, so the vets are eating the newbies.

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I wouldn't worry too much about that, MM.

Come on, OM, if we voted for Prom Queen, I'd finish in the top twenty. Or thirty. Maybe fifty. I'm top fifty!

But you wouldn't win either. You'd look terrible in a dress, and nobody wants to see you blubbering like a girl during your spotlight dance.

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Well, I see everyone is making a lot of great points... I want to offer one and hopefully this doesn't get buried in this thread. I'll send my suggestion(s) via PM as well so that at least ONE mod sees it.

Since everyone hates the fact that a thread can become 9 pages deep within an hour due to the infamous "I agree" or the "you're a moron and I disagree"... what if each thread had a pre-set poll option with 3 options ; 1. I agree 2. I disagree 3. I'm riding the fence. For all those that really have nothing to say, but are compelled to feel HEARD, a quick vote would be a wonderful option. That is, if it's even possible. And I'm sure it is being that this board is database driven. I think this option alone could cut a TON of useless posts out.

When I come here, I scan the topic NAMES and if it peeks my curiosity, I can get most of what I need to know in the first 2 pages. Reading a whole thread is pointless, at least to me.

Also, in the offseason, I can't see this place having more than a few hundred users at any given time. It's the regular season that scares me... with the 50,000 users that are on here. I think a purge of users is in order on a monthly basis. If you haven't been LOGGED ON in the last 30 days, your account is gone. So the 40K plus users that joined simply to post on here once about how they loved the win we got and then never get heard from again, will be deleted. And since it's off-season at the moment, none of these people will be heard from until August or September anyway... including some people who are posting at this very moment. As soon as spring gets here, they'll be gone. I say purge the user list and drop the user count.

And on a separate note... I'm a HUGE fan of the Redskins but I've only been on this board a few months. Frankly, the tension on here is nasty between newbies and vets. It makes me feel lumped in with the newbies as someone who is not only unwanted but also never going to be respected or listened to, for whatever reason the vets may have. Outside of the internet world, I only have a few friends who are DIEHARD into the Skins who understand and give a damn about what happens off the field. This reason alone is why I joined here--to be surrounded by people who care about the team 365 days a year instead of only on the winning seasons. Unfortunately, I find that this board is really no different than the real world where a few people know WAY TOO MUCH and a lot of people have nothing to say or offer to a conversation. Because of this, the board is infested with comments from people who know way too little and have next to nothing to offer. On the one hand, these people are welcome, but it makes it difficult to carry a conversation when 50 people say the same thing or start quoting newspapers and television shows. It's almost like watching people jockey for position on some imagined class system in here. It's rediculous. So with that said, I agree with the vets. BUT... there are people who have joined recently that have just as much to offer as any vet. If there is to be a class system designed and implemented, this may end up only turning people away that would be worth listening to AS WELL AS people who are not worth listening to. I don't think a class system is that great of an idea. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. HTTR!

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is anyone surprised that in a commnuity this large every behavioral type imaginable is on display? in most environments there are two institutional features: a policy, and an enforcement mechanism. ES has a policy. The mods are the enforcers....the latter point is where the problems lie: 1) the mods can't monitor everything; 2) when everything is said and done they lean to maximum leeway (thank goodness!). The real debate here is where that line of enforcement ought to be drawn - not the mechanism. I think the gents have done a pretty good job and have realized the value they planned for in our little ES social community.

btw...I have gone head-to-head in a nasty way sometimes......and then enjoyed very pleasant PMs behind the scenes with a whole bunch of the very same people. not everything is as it seems. and it's a nice quality to ES that might not be so prominent elsewhere.

otherwise...I'm staying out of this one! never have been one for setting limits - even if they are practical.

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The only major problem I found with the boards, is the fact that most of the people posting one word replies, or "just getting in here before it closes", are vets. I think it makes it so much more ironic, because they are usually the same ones who bash people and jump all over them when they make a great statement or share their opinion. And the thing about automatically wanting to slaughter the newbies is a joke. I noticed that typically if a vet disagrees with something a newbie says, the first thing they do instead of a counter argument, is say"shut up newbie, you have 4 posts, your opinion means nothing". Here's a newsflash for the newbie-bashers. When I first started reading these boards, it was January of 2005. Until recently, I had no time to be an active member. In that time, I was able to observe and watch the tendencies of certain posters, and learn thoroughly how the site runs smoothly in some aspects, and hits bumps in others. To sum things up, because of my observations, I know more about how things run around here than a lot of the "vets". Therefor, even though you might see I'm a "newbie", it doesn't mean your contributions are better, or filled with more valuable content than us newbies. It's like the mods have been saying forever.....it's about quality, not quantity. Great post Ryman.....hope you don't have to read through to page 30 to see this.

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Don't worry guys. We have something of a plan in place for this.

One of two things will happen.

We will find a way to allow community participation by assigning "reputation" values to posters that the community assigns. Based on that reputation, the poster can either not post new threads or can not post at all. If we can't get that working, well, we'll just start hacking away :).

This community is here for people to discuss the team and be mildly understanding of the fact that THEY have to put in a little time looking for similar conversations so they don't overrun the place. For some reason it's been a hard thing to accomplish mostly because it's not just newbies making the problem. It's vets too.

Mostly, the "informed" discussion is what we're going to find a way to foster more of. If you have a three word rant, or simply think some player or some coach sucks, well, you're going to find the Swarm of this community turning on you, so, essentially, shut up. :).

My vote is to put an end to personal attacks. I see some posts that turn into childish name-calling or stating how a comment is stupid. I can forgive repititive topics before I can forgive childish fighting that has nothing to do with the Skins or football.

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A second point: Look at what a great thread full of ideas. Now we have OM and MRMADD playing kissy face for 6 posts. I know that the mods don't care about that stuff, but since we are all complaining about stuff....

P.S. Get a room you two.

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