Thousands of Fatah Activists March in Gaza

[Sarge]

This is awesome. Looks like the crazies are going to tear each other apart. Maybe it'll keep them from bombing buses in Israel for awhile.

I wonder where Nobel Prize winner Jimmy Carter is right now?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060128/D8FDO5SG0.html

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) - Fatah activists marched to Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas' compound, police briefly stormed the parliament building in Gaza and security forces clashed with Hamas gunmen on Saturday as the long-ruling party lashed out in anger for its devastating election loss.

Fears over the future of the security forces under a Hamas-led government added to the chaos.

Most of the 58,000 security officers are allied with Fatah and worry that they will lose their jobs. The Islamic militant group, which won a majority in Wednesday's parliamentary vote, has its own armed force of about 5,000 gunmen in the Gaza Strip.

"The security forces will stay. Hamas has no power meddling with the security forces," Jibril Rajoub, Abbas' national security adviser, told the hundreds of Fatah activists at Abbas' compound.

The group, which included gunmen, marched to the compound in Ramallah and peacefully prayed at Yasser Arafat's grave. "We came to you Abu Amar to forgive us for what happened," they chanting, referring to the late Palestinian leader by his nickname.

Abbas' security force prevented the activists from approaching his nearby office in the compound, known as the muqaata. Outside the compound, some militants shot in the air.

The marchers earlier demonstrated at the Palestinian parliament building in Ramallah, where several gunmen climbed on the roof and fired in the air to the cheers and whistles from supporters below.

In Gaza, dozens of armed police officers - some wearing masks, others wearing Fatah headbands - briefly stormed the parliament building there, demanding an immediate trial for Hamas members who killed police in fighting in recent months. They also demanded the security forces remain in Fatah's hands.

Earlier Saturday in Gaza, Hamas gunmen wounded two Palestinian policemen in what authorities said was a roadside ambush, hours after two officers and a Hamas activist were wounded in another firefight. One of the officers remained in a coma Saturday from a bullet wound to the head.

Ismail Haniyeh, a Hamas leader in Gaza, addressed the growing fears in a mosque sermon Friday, saying there would be no purge of the security forces. However, it appeared inevitable that Hamas will want to replace many of the officers with their own loyalists.

Wednesday's election exposed deep tensions within Palestinian society and was a clear rebuke to Fatah for its corruption and inability to maintain order. Before the vote, veteran Fatah leaders, those most tainted by corruption allegations, resisted repeated calls for reform by the Fatah young guard.

The protests began Friday, soon after Abbas said he would ask Hamas to form the next government.

Haniyeh said he asked Abbas to meet Sunday to discuss the government, but Abbas' office said no appointment had been made. Hamas, which has no experience in governing, took 76 of the 132 parliament seats up for grabs.

In Damascus, Syria, Hamas' top leader Khaled Mashaal reiterated Saturday that his group seeks a partnership with all political parties but also wants to reform the government. In a reference to Fatah, Mashaal warned that those "who might try block the work because they are out of power" would be held responsible if reforms are blocked.

Finger-pointing increased within Fatah, meanwhile, following the defeat, which ended four decades of the party's dominance in Palestinian politics.

Demonstrators demanded the resignation of the party's entire central committee, although only a few said that should include Abbas - who was elected last year to a four-year term as Palestinian Authority president.

About 2,000 Fatah members marched through the West Bank city of Nablus, led by dozens of gunmen from the Fatah-allied Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, who fired in the air from the back of a truck.

"We are now no longer part of the cease-fire," one of the gunmen, Nasser Haras, told the crowd. Palestinian militant groups agreed last year to a cease-fire with Israel.

In Bethlehem, about 400 activists took over the party's local office and demanded the resignation of party leaders. In Tulkarem, gunman Ibrahim Khreisheh warned against cooperating with Hamas. "Whoever will participate in a government with Hamas, we will shoot him in the head," he said.

Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Shaath, who ran the failed Fatah campaign, blamed the defeat on dozens of Fatah politicians who ran as independents after not getting a place on the party slate. "This led to a split of the votes, and prevented us from winning in many districts," he said.

The Fatah Revolutionary Council, a secondary party organ, on Friday expelled six members who had run as independents and lost. About 150 other renegade candidates were ordered expelled from the party.

The car of one of the independents, Burhan Jarar, was torched Saturday in the West Bank city of Jenin.

Ghazi Hamad, a Hamas' ideologue, said the group might form a government of technocrats with no connection to Hamas, a move that could relieve some of the international pressure on the group.

Israel, caught off guard by the Hamas parliamentary landslide after its vaunted intelligence services predicted a slim Fatah victory, has said it would have no contacts with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas.

Hamas, responsible for dozens of suicide bombings on Israelis, has long called for the destruction of the Jewish state. In recent years, some Hamas leaders grudgingly accepted the idea of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, but only as a stage toward freeing the rest of Palestine - meaning Israel.

President Bush said Friday in a television interview with "CBS Evening News" that the United States would cut aid to the Palestinian government unless Hamas abolishes the militant arm of its party and stops calling for the destruction of Israel.

Hamas is listed as a terror organization by the United States and the European Union. If the group fails to change its ways, Bush said, "we won't deal with them."

Jacob Walles, the U.S. consul-general in Jerusalem, said the United States gives $400 million a year to the Palestinian Authority.

A Palestinian Cabinet minister, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic, said the government would have to fire 30,000 of its 137,000 employees immediately if aid was cut.

Israeli officials said they will make a decision soon on whether to stop transferring taxes and import duties it collects on behalf of the Palestinian Authority, which make up about two-thirds of the authority's revenue.

Amos Gilad, a senior Israeli Defense Ministry official, said Israel would not grant free movement to newly elected Hamas members between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

[Chopper Dave]

The sad thing is, Hamas is what's best for the Palestinians in the short-term. They're going to give them everything that Fatah's corruption prevented them from giving. And then they're going to start attacking Israel.

This is a total bumble****.

[Sarge]

The sad thing is, Hamas is what's best for the Palestinians in the short-term. They're going to give them everything that Fatah's corruption prevented them from giving. And then they're going to start attacking Israel.

This is a total bumble****.

And you think they won't be corrupt either? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Wow Jimmy. Good idea these elections :doh:

[Chopper Dave]

And you think they won't be corrupt either? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Wow Jimmy. Good idea these elections :doh:

No, I don't think they will, because I don't think they'll have the facade of being a real government. I think they'll continue to contribute to their people, continue to build support, and continue to attack Israel. And I don't think there'll even be a place for corruption.

[Sarge]

No, I don't think they will, because I don't think they'll have the facade of being a real government. I think they'll continue to contribute to their people, continue to build support, and continue to attack Israel. And I don't think there'll even be a place for corruption.

Aside from the attacking Isael part, you have no clue. And they ar not going to help their people, because the first rocket fired into Israel by the new "government" is going to buy an ass kicking for the people by Israel

[Chopper Dave]

Aside from the attacking Isael part, you have no clue. And they ar not going to help their people, because the first rocket fired into Israel by the new "government" is going to buy an ass kicking for the people by Israel

Sarge, how the hell do you think they got elected? They did things for the people. Yeah, their radical ways are probably going to be the Palestinians' ultimate downfall, but before that happens they'll help the people more than Fatah ever did. Hell, they did more for the people than Fatah did BEFORE they ever became part of the government.

[NoCalMike]

File this under, Palestine doesn't have a GOOD option for leadership currently.

[Chopper Dave]

File this under, Palestine doesn't have a GOOD option for leadership currently.

Currently?

[hokie4redskins]

Every man is susceptible to corruption. Yes, even the leaders of, uh, Hamas. Sarge, don't waste your time. Chopper Dave has turned his mind off and is floating downstream.

[nelms]

Every man is susceptible to corruption. Yes, even the leaders of, uh, Hamas. Sarge, don't waste your time. Chopper Dave has turned his mind off and is floating downstream.

:laugh: Turn on, tune in, drop out dude.

[nuposse87]

Hamas does build houses and schools for the palestinians but they are still "evil" i guess.

[Sarge]

Hamas does build houses and schools for the palestinians but they are still "evil" i guess.

You guess?

Look up the number of bus bombings they've committed over the years.

Unless you don't consider that evil

[Sarge]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060128/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_hamas__test

Whose bright idea was this election? :laugh:

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Following their resounding election victory, the Islamic militants of Hamas met the question of whether they will change their stripes with a loud "no": no recognition of Israel, no negotiations, no renunciation of terror.

But the world holds out hope that international pressure can make them more moderate. At stake is the future of Mideast peacemaking, billions of dollars in aid and the Palestinians' relationship with Israel, the United States and Europe.

Hamas' victory — winning 76 of 132 parliament seats in Wednesday's election — has created a dizzying power shift in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, overturning certitudes and highlighting the failure by Palestinian leaders, Israel and the international community to ease growing desperation in the Palestinian territories.

Weekend violence between Hamas and Palestinian policemen mostly allied with long-dominant Fatah, and angry demonstrations by disgruntled gunmen fearing the loss of jobs and income after the Hamas win, have raised the specter of widespread civil strife.

After a brutal five-year campaign by Israel to destroy Hamas and assassinate its top leaders, the organization emerged stronger than ever and is poised to take over the Palestinian Authority.

The U.S. has pushed for democracy in the Middle East, hoping to promote moderation and head off more 9/11-style attacks, but, as in recent votes in Iraq, Egypt and Lebanon, a clean and fair election has empowered Islamists in the West Bank and Gaza.

Israel and the international community repeatedly have demanded that the Palestinian government disarm militias, but now that the main militia appears to have become the government, no one knows what will happen to its weapons.

The win by Hamas — which is responsible for dozens of suicide bombings on Israelis and has long called for the destruction of the Jewish state — caught everyone, including the organization itself, off guard.

Both Hamas and the international community face agonizing dilemmas. Hamas leaders say they won't renounce their violent ideology, but the consequences of failing to do so are likely to be catastrophic: loss of life-sustaining aid, international isolation and a profound setback to their statehood aspirations.

The United States and many European countries say they'll have nothing to do with a Hamas government, but a sharp cutoff in aid and an overly zealous stance could steer the Palestinians further away from moderation at an extremely delicate moment.

An interview with an up-and-coming young Hamas leader in a dusty Gaza Strip field revealed how the organization's slant could shift.

Mushir al-Masri said renouncing the "armed struggle" and negotiating with Israel are "not on Hamas' agenda" because a decade of talking won the Palestinians nothing.

"We cannot waste 10 more years when the last 10 years failed to realize even the minimum amount of Palestinian hopes," he said.

But when an aide tried to put a green Hamas sash over al-Masri's shoulder before a TV interview, the 29-year-old newly elected lawmaker shooed him away. "You should bring me the Palestinian flag," he said, reflecting his movement's stated desire to represent all Palestinians.

By all accounts, Palestinians didn't choose Hamas because they reject peace talks with Israel but rather because they were fed up with graft in the ruling Fatah Party. Hamas candidates ran on a platform of clean government, largely de-emphasizing their militant credentials.

Samih al-Hattab, a 32-year-old policeman in Gaza City, said he voted for Hamas because "everyone wants change," but said he expected the group to soften its stances once in power.

"A politician has to be seasoned and to adapt to the situation he's under," he said, standing outside a mosque where a cleric had just finished a sermon urging Hamas not to follow the corrupt ways of Fatah.

Hamas leaders are aware of their dilemma. Since the election, they have struggled to persuade Fatah to join them in a coalition — hoping to avoid having to deal with Israel and the West. But Fatah has so far rejected the offer.

Hamas victory celebrations have been decidedly muted, another indication the group seeks to handle the situation delicately.

Despite that, tensions are boiling on the streets. Clashes in Gaza between Hamas gunmen and Palestinian police on Friday and Saturday wounded four officers and one Hamas militant.

Also Saturday, thousands of angry Fatah activists, led by masked gunmen firing in the air, marched through several West Bank cities demanding the resignation of party leaders following their defeat.

The growing unrest, combined with the complexities of running a government and world pressure for it to change its ways, pose daunting challenges to Hamas, which has little experience in governance.

If Hamas forms the next government, as is likely, and fails to renounce its call for the destruction of Israel, the U.S. and most European countries are almost certain to cut off the financial aid that keeps the already bankrupt Palestinian Authority running.

Israel, which has urged the international community not to deal with a Hamas government, has substantial leverage in the situation but for now appears intent on holding off on severe measures such as closing border crossings with Gaza or cutting off the monthly flow of tax transfers to the Palestinian Authority.

The Palestinians have a mixed system of government, part presidential and part parliamentary. That means Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas, the moderate president of the Palestinian Authority, should be able to remain in office.

Still unknown, however, is whether Hamas will seize its right to form the new government, taking over the premiership and a new Palestinian Cabinet, and what sort of powers that would give them. The previous Fatah-dominated legislature for the most part fell in line with Abbas.

[Chopper Dave]

Every man is susceptible to corruption. Yes, even the leaders of, uh, Hamas. Sarge, don't waste your time. Chopper Dave has turned his mind off and is floating downstream.

Funny, the resident liberals-kicked-my-dog crowd can still sniff out their enemies even when their enemies probably agree with their viewpoints.

Nelms, hokie, grow the hell up.

[Cskin]

Hey... they got what they got... kinda the ole' "dance with the one that brung ya" kind of stuff. Who cares what they do for the people.... now they (Hamas) is going to set their sights on attacking Israel.... and Israel is going to give them a missle enema.... and the average Palistinian isn't going to get jack but a dust/pebble sandwhich.

Oh... and these same people are going to see the cash cow well dry up too... because the US just put itself on the "Do Not Call" list in terms of sending Palestine money.

[boobiemiles]

So much for peace in the Middle East. To me, this speaks more to the short coming of the Bush Administrations high hopes for democracy in the middle east.

[chomerics]

Wow Jimmy. Good idea these elections :doh:

Yet we are trying to spread democracy in the Middle East huh? Kind of blows holes right through the heart of that argument doesn't it Sarge, espically when you consider the far right stance of Iran and Palestine right now.

[visionary]

nuposse87: "Hamas does build houses and schools for the palestinians but they are still "evil" i guess."

You guess?

Look up the number of bus bombings they've committed over the years.

Unless you don't consider that evil

Hey, they didn't graduate from Evil Frickin' Medical School for nothing!

[visionary]

So much for peace in the Middle East. To me, this speaks more to the short coming of the Bush Administrations high hopes for democracy in the middle east.

Yeah, Prime Minister George W. Bush...really blew it in Palestine.

Oh wait, I think you got me confused here...

[Sarge]

This is what you get when you give one side gifts (money, elections) without making them reform their evil ways first.

[Air Force Cane]

the images on television showing the savages of Hamas, then followed up by the animals of the Al-Aqsa Brigade-

have cost the Palestinians ten years worth of positive propaganda from the Western media.

:cool:

[chomerics]

This is what you get when you give one side gifts (money, elections) without making them reform their evil ways first.

Kind of like Iraq huh? Serious question Sarge, do you not dee the glaring contradiction in your stance here? On one hand, you are saying they should not be allowed to have elections because they can't handle it, yet on the other you are saying we are over there to GRANT them democracy. How can you honestly try to take both sides of an argument and be taken seriously?

One more point, do you think our presence in Iraq has anything to do with the hard right turn the Middle East is taking now?

[twa]

Could you give examples of this hard right turn?

Other than Hamas of course,who imo is not much different than the PLA,just more honest about thier views.

[Sarge]

Kind of like Iraq huh? Serious question Sarge, do you not dee the glaring contradiction in your stance here? On one hand, you are saying they should not be allowed to have elections because they can't handle it, yet on the other you are saying we are over there to GRANT them democracy. How can you honestly try to take both sides of an argument and be taken seriously?

One more point, do you think our presence in Iraq has anything to do with the hard right turn the Middle East is taking now?

Becasue one region is vital to our national security, and the other isn't. I wish the whole middle east was democratic to begin with but unfortunatly, with over a thousand years of islam keeping them in the dark ages, that hasn't happened. I also wish oil, which runs our country, was somewhere else in the world. Then I could really care less if they sat in their own squalor.

But that's not the case. So, with us needing a stable supply of oil, because we won't dig for our own, nor will we do alternative energy, we need to be in the area. Democracy, since it is a much more stable form of government than anything islam has produced in the area, is a naturally desirable outcome of presence in the area.

As for the palestinians, I'm not quite sure what the rest of the world sees there, but for whatever reason people keep feeding them money. Thing is, it''s like giving a child allowence even though they don't do their chores. Soon they expect a gimme and won't do anything.

Case in point here. Euroweenies keep giving them money, even thought they won't renounce terrorism. Hell, we gave them millions to have elections, all without askign them or demanding they join at least the 20th century, if not the 21st.

Now you see the results It's hard to explain to anyone that hasn't been there how truly backwards that part of the world is, and how differently they think, but that's what we're stuck with dealing with.

[nuposse87]

You guess?

Look up the number of bus bombings they've committed over the years.

Unless you don't consider that evil

Yes i know they sponsor insurgents in the area. That is evil and bad, but its the only end the Israelis left them. What do you expect for them to act peacefully? The Israelis and the palestinians can't along and because of that innocent people on both sides are dying because of their arrogance over a ****ty piece of land.

Israel also kills innocent palestinians, yet the US doesn't seem to care. I detest the Israeli government as much as I detest Hamas. Those scumbags can wipe themselves out, they've failed their constituents and shouldn't be allowed to retain any power.