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The two faces of Google

Sarge

By Sarge
in The Tailgate

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Sarge

Sarge

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So your argument is that we should be more like china where there is no such thing as the ACLU?

Why am I not suprised.

No, no, no. But in light of the ACLU suing the government to let a muslim "scholar" with an unsavory background into the country, I figured maybe they could help the ChiComs too.

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Ancalagon the Black

Ancalagon the Black

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A bit more detail on Google's deal with the devil from the Guardian (yes, Sarge, I know it's a leftist rag :)):

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,1694294,00.html

Backlash as Google shores up great firewall of China

· US search engine agrees to government restrictions

· Firm admits inconsistency with its corporate ethics

Jonathan Watts in Jinan

Wednesday January 25, 2006

The Guardian

Google, the world's biggest search engine, will team up with the world's biggest censor, China, today with a service that it hopes will make it more attractive to the country's 110 million online users.

After holding out longer than any other major internet company, Google will effectively become another brick in the great firewall of China when it starts filtering out information that it believes the government will not approve of.

Despite a year of soul-searching, the American company will join Microsoft and Yahoo! in helping the communist government block access to websites containing politically sensitive content, such as references to the Tiananmen Square massacre and criticism of the politburo.

Executives have grudgingly accepted that this is the ethical price they have to pay to base servers in mainland China, which will improve the speed - and attractiveness - of their service in a country where they face strong competition from the leading mandarin search engine, Baidu.

But Google faces a backlash from free speech advocates, internet activists and politicians, some of whom are already asking how the company's policy in China accords with its mission statement: to make all possible information available to everyone who has a computer or mobile phone.

The new interface - google.cn - started at midnight last night and will be slowly phased in over the coming months. Although users will have the option of continuing to search via the original US-based google.com website, it is expected that the vast majority of Chinese search enquiries will go through mainland-based servers.

This will require the company to abide by the rules of the world's most restricted internet environment. China is thought to have 30,000 online police monitoring blogs, chatrooms and news portals. The propaganda department is thought to employ even more people, a small but increasing number of whom are paid to anonymously post pro-government comments online. Sophisticated filters have been developed to block or limit access to "unhealthy information", which includes human rights websites, such as Amnesty, foreign news outlets, such as the BBC, as well as pornography. Of the 64 internet dissidents in prison worldwide, 54 are from China.

Google has remained outside this system until now. But its search results are still filtered and delayed by the giant banks of government servers, known as the great firewall of China. Type "Falun Gong" in the search engine from a Beijing computer and the only results that can be accessed are official condemnations.

Now, however, Google will actively assist the government to limit content. There are technical precedents. In Germany, Google follows government orders by restricting references to sites that deny the Holocaust. In France, it obeys local rules prohibiting sites that stir up racial hatred. And in the US, it assists the authorities' crackdown on copyright infringements.

The scale of censorship in China is likely to dwarf anything the company has done before. According to one internet media insider, the main taboos are the three Ts: Tibet, Taiwan and the Tiananmen massacre, and the two Cs: cults such as Falun Gong and criticism of the Communist party. But this list is frequently updated.

In a statement, Google said it had little choice: "To date, our search service has been offered exclusively from outside China, resulting in latency and access issues that have been unsatisfying to our Chinese users and, therefore, unacceptable to Google. With google.cn, Chinese users will ultimately receive a search service that is fast, always accessible, and helps them find information both in China and from around the world."

It acknowledged that this ran contrary to its corporate ethics, but said a greater good was served by providing information in China. "In order to operate from China, we have removed some content from the search results available on google.cn, in response to local law, regulation or policy. While removing search results is inconsistent with Google's mission, providing no information (or a heavily degraded user experience that amounts to no information) is more inconsistent with our mission."

Initially, Google will not use Chinese servers for two of its most popular services: Gmail and blogger. This is a reflection of the company's discomfort with the harsh media environment - and the subsequent risks to its corporate image.

In an attempt to be more transparent than its rivals, Google said it would inform users that certain web pages had been removed from the list of results on the orders of the government. But its motivation is economic: a chunk of the fast-growing Chinese search market, estimated to be worth $151m (£84m) in 2004. This is still small by US standards, but with the number of web users increasing at the rate of more than 20 million a year, the online population is on course to overtake the US within the next decade.

Julian Pain of Reporters Without Borders - a freedom of expression advocacy group that also has its website blocked in China - accused Google of hypocrisy. "This is very bad news for the internet in China. Google were the only ones who held out. So the Chinese government had to block information themselves. But now Google will do it for them," he said. "They have two standards. One for the US, where they resist government demands for personal information, and one for China, where they are helping the authorities block thousands of websites."

Local bloggers were already wearily resigned to the change. "What Google are doing is targeting commercial interests and skirting political issues," said one of the country's most prominent, who writes under the name Black Hearted Killer. "That by itself is no cause for criticism, but there is no doubt they are cowards."

Forbidden searches

Words or phrases that can trigger pages to be blocked or removed from search results:

Tiananmen Square massacre

The killing of hundreds, if not thousands, of civilians by the People's Liberation Army in 1989

Dalai Lama

The exiled spiritual leader of Tibet, who is denounced as a splittist by the government in Beijing

Taiwanese independence

The nightmare of the Communist party, which has vowed to use force to prevent a breakaway

Falun Gong

A banned spiritual movement, thousands of whose members have been imprisoned and in many cases tortured Dongzhou

The village where paramilitary police shot and killed at least three protesters last month

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Sarge

Sarge

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I dont understand the point or argument of the thread?

Is it critizing Google like they are doing on Free Republic

Is it critizing ACLU like they are doing on Free Republic

Is it critizing China or Trade with China like they are doing on Free Republic

A little of both. Google, who's founders are decidedly left leaning, catering to the ChiComs and censoring their search feature. I find this funny since the left has been so bunged up over the "NSA spying" thing. Think the government gets into your business here? Have a stay in China or any other commie nation for that matter. And they restricted their own website so they could get into China and make the Almighty dollar. How very capitalist/Republican of them :laugh:

ANd the ACLU? Well, there'a always room to dog them

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DarkLadyRaven

DarkLadyRaven

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A little of both. Google, who's founders are decidedly left leaning, catering to the ChiComs and censoring their search feature. I find this funny since the left has been so bunged up over the "NSA spying" thing. Think the government gets into your business here? Have a stay in China or any other commie nation for that matter. And they restricted their own website so they could get into China and make the Almighty dollar. How very capitalist/Republican of them :laugh:

ANd the ACLU? Well, there'a always room to dog them

Hey Free Captalism is not loyal to any country which makes it a *****. Shareholders are looking to the biggest profits. When Bidu.com a chinese search engine opened on the stock market it made crazy insane amounts of money. What the hell type of capalist walks away from that. In Economics by definition not a local one Sarge? Even with restrictions imposed by Chnia Google can still make alot of money there.

As for the left, they are the left of this country only care about its citizens-- They cant do **** about China and I dont see the right for that matter taking up Chinas Human rights issues to the forefront when there is so much money and trade to be had

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TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

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Well, I wonder if it's censored or if that word just has more than one meaning over there. What I mean is, all most Americans know about Tiananmen Square is the horrible incident that occurred with the students demonstrating. However, that is probably just an incident in the mind of a Chinese citizen.

I can't think of a great example here in the States (since I don't have an outside perspective), but what about the Pentagon? We know it for so many reasons, but in the mind of a Chinese citizen, they might only really know about it based on what happened on 9/11.

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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...I dont see the right for that matter taking up Chinas Human rights issues to the forefront when there is so much money and trade to be had

I'm "on the right" and I do care about human rights in China and other places as many of my friends do. In particular, religious rights. Unfortunately all "righties" tend to get painted as fascists and Oil-profiting war-mongerers. I personally oppose trade with any country that restricts peoples religious rights. Whether it's China or Canada, I don't care.

I get this emailed to me periodically. Could you imagine if this happened in the US? This is just the tip of the iceberg.

From The Voice of the Martyrs Newsletter

Ethiopia:

During the past three years, hundreds of Muslims have come to Christ through the ministry of missionaries serving quietly in Ethiopia. Early this month, however, the identity of one of these missionaries in northeastern Ethiopia was discovered by those opposed to the spread of the gospel. According to a VOM-Canada source in Ethiopia, a large mob formed on July 8th, intending to kill the missionary "Stephen" (not his real name). His house was burned, and he was dragged into the bush. Police managed to intervene, but the mob turned on the police, wounding two of them. Stephen was taken into custody where police beat him and allowed other prisoners to attack him. He was finally released after paying 2000 Birr ($285.00 CDN). The authorities released him during the night because of threats against his life. Mission leaders are presently appealing his case to the high court in Bahir Dar.

Nigeria:

A band of Muslim extremists in Lagos state has pronounced a death sentence on a Christian family and assaulted the father because his daughter allegedly sold pork, contrary to strict Islamic law. On July 15th, militants came to the family patriarch's home looking for his 16-year-old daughter, Bridget Osagie. Not finding her, they beat her 57-year-old father, Emma Osagie. The Osagie family denies Bridget sold pork which is against Shariah Law. At the time of the original allegation in 1993, she was just 4 years old. In any event, Shariah is not in effect in Lagos state. Osagie has reported the assault to police and petitioned the Nigerian government, but officials have done nothing. The extremists vowed to return. (Click here)

Vietnam:

Just five days after authorities demolished half of a Mennonite church center, officials on Sunday evening forced their way in to disband a prayer meeting. As Christians were praying quietly, one of 30 local authorities shouted at them to stop and ordered Le Thi Phu Dzung (the wife of imprisoned Pastor Nguyen Hong Quang) to disband the meeting. Dzung was cited for "gathering a crowd and disturbing public order" and "conducting illegal religious activities." Officials returned to the Mennonite center just before 9:00 p.m. for a second raid on a tip that Dzung had convened another meeting. Finding no meeting, the security police instead threatened to confiscate motorcycles parked inside the building. A prominent house-church leader remarked that the May 2005 U.S.-Vietnam agreement on improving religious liberty is on trial.

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rincewind

rincewind

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Well, I wonder if it's censored or if that word just has more than one meaning over there. What I mean is, all most Americans know about Tiananmen Square is the horrible incident that occurred with the students demonstrating. However, that is probably just an incident in the mind of a Chinese citizen.

I can't think of a great example here in the States (since I don't have an outside perspective), but what about the Pentagon? We know it for so many reasons, but in the mind of a Chinese citizen, they might only really know about it based on what happened on 9/11.

That's exactly what i thought - maybe that's just not their first impression of Tiananmen; though it is our only impression.

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DjTj

DjTj

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That's exactly what i thought - maybe that's just not their first impression of Tiananmen; though it is our only impression.

Tiananmen Square is basically like the National Mall, so it could be like if you search for "Lincoln Memorial" on U.S. Google, you find a full page of photos of the Lincoln Memorial (with MLK on the second page):

http://images.google.com/images?q=Lincoln+Memorial&hl=en

But on the Chinese Google, Martin Luther King is the second photo that comes up:

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&lr=&cr=countryCN&q=Lincoln+Memorial

However, it's pretty clear that there is some censorship going on. For example, if you search for "Falun Gong" on U.S. Google:

http://www.google.com/search?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=Falun%20Gong&sa=N&tab=iw

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=Falun+Gong

Compared to the Chinese Google:

http://www.google.cn/search?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&lr=&cr=countryCN&q=falun%20gong&sa=N&tab=iw

http://images.google.cn/images?svnum=10&hl=zh-CN&lr=&cr=countryCN&q=falun%20gong&sa=N&tab=wi

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Prosperity

Prosperity

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On one side you have to admit this seems wrong. Aiding the chinese in their mission to deny reality isn't a good thing.

On the other hand google is a business and china is a major market.

Yes they are a business but their motto is "Do no evil" or something like that. This is really dissapointing, I should have saw it coming.

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