nelms Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Exactly. But it's so much easier to scream that your rights are being violated and to dream about the "Homeland Security Gestapo" actually doing something to you. Makes for a good story in Time, the NY Times, the Compost, CNN,ABC, MSNBS blah blah blah. Yep, chommie stirring the pot again. What a complete joke this guy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheREALJBird Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Yep, chommie stirring the pot again. What a complete joke this guy is. Couldn't agree more, the guy goes into defensive mode if anyone doesn't agree with a point of his, yet if someone else has one, then he dismisses it as invalid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."That's pretty damn absolute.. Do you have any clue whatsoever what he meant by that statement? Probably not, since like most people, you probably believe that Goldwater wanted to nuke the entire world. Gotta give it to LBJ, his PR machine created an image that still lasts today, 40 years later. Holmes got it wrong, like most he clearly didn't understand the first amendment. The free-speech guarantee ( in the first amendment) operates only as a barrier to censorship by the government( can be said of all of the Bill of Rights). When private entities make personal decisions about what to censor and not censor, they are exercising the fundamental right of private ownership( which in theory our government is supposed to protect) The quote is a horrible misapplication of the free-speech principle. :laugh: Yeah, I'll take the opinion of an anonymous dude on a Redskins message board over a Supreme Court Justice. I don't know who is a bigger joke, you or chommie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Do you have any clue whatsoever what he meant by that statement? Probably not, since like most people, you probably believe that Goldwater wanted to nuke the entire world. Gotta give it to LBJ, his PR machine created an image that still lasts today, 40 years later. 1. LBJ was a evil **** 2. I consider Barry Goldwater a political hero Do you have any clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 1. LBJ was a evil ****2. I consider Barry Goldwater a political hero Do you have any clue? 1. Why? 2. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 1. Why? The Great Society and Vietnam 2. Why? He was a rare politician who was principled ( though his militant anti-Communism was absolutely abominable), he challenged the welfare state, and the legacy of the New Deal. Towards the end of his life, he understood and spoke about the evils of the religious right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 The Great Society and Vietnam Agree with you on The Great Society. Agree with you only on how he horribly conducted the Vietnam War (yes, it was winnable if managed properly, i.e. not micro managed from the White House). He was a rare politician who was prinicipled( though his militant anti-Communism was absolutely abominable), he challenged the welfare state, and the legacy of the New Deal. Towards the end of his life, he understood and spoke about the evils of the religious right. Agree with you on everything except the anti-Communism. Here's a great quote by George Will describing Goldwater conservatism: "muscular foreign policy backing unapologetic nationalism; economic policies of low taxation and light regulation; a libertarian inclination regarding cultural questions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 The Great Society and VietnamHe was a rare politician who was principled ( though his militant anti-Communism was absolutely abominable), So you like communism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Things aren't as black and white as they were during the cold war. Now they're Red and Blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 So you like communism? :laugh: Yeah, I love communism. :laugh: How in the world did you arrive at that conclusion? Got to love the political debate in this country. I have been accused of being a market fundamentalist and being pro communist in the same week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I didnt see anywhere in that article that they actually did anything to the protestors. They were allowed to protest all they wanted. Just checked up on them. If you think the g'ment hasnt been doing this forever, thats awfully naive IMO.Still, not enough to get my blood boiling. Good point. I'm certain that an administration that has Made american citizens disapear. (And claims they still can) Eavesdropped on their own citizens in violation of their own laws. (And claims they still can) Established "black sites" overseas, for the sole purpose of doing things that they say they don't do, to people they say they don't have. (And claims they aren't doing it. While claiming that they will continue.) Has kidnapped foreign citizens from their own countries and sent them to rent-a-torture sites. (And claims they aren't doing it.) Forbids any citizen with a sign (or t-shirt, or button) expressing disagreement with the government from listening to government speaches. (And claims they aren't doing it.) Any citizen with an opposing sign who attempts to stand near a government event is arrested and held (untill after the event, at which time he's released with no explanation). (And claims they aren't doing it). Has forbidden High School students from attending a class trip to a government speach because the student had an anti-war letter published in the school newspaper. (And claims they aren't doing it). Can obviously be trusted with a computerised database of every citizen who's ever disagreed with the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 The demonstrators wore papier-mache masks and handed out free peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches to Halliburton employees as they left work. I understand it was all fun and games, but due to the KKK it is illegal to wear masks in public. Keeps down on the rampant bank robberies also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I understand it was all fun and games, but due to the KKK it is illegal to wear masks in public. Keeps down on the rampant bank robberies also. Oh, that explains it. The secret police were watching them, because they were attempting to prevent the secret police from watching them, which is obviously suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelms Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 :laugh: Yeah, I love communism. :laugh: How in the world did you arrive at that conclusion? You stated Goldwater is your political hero, so it's a fair question after you said "though his militant anti-Communism was absolutely abominable". He was a fierce anti-communist and patriot, so I find it hard to believe he can be your "hero" if you disagree with a large part of what he stood for. From what I've read from your other posts, like Goldwater, you appear to be very libertarian in your views, so your comment doesn't make any sense. I, on the other hand, am proud to say that I'm a Goldwater conservative. Despite what commies like chommie says, my political views are very libertarian. I just believe that the security of this nation trumps everything else. Goldwater also believed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Oh, that explains it. The secret police were watching them, because they were attempting to prevent the secret police from watching them, which is obviously suspicious. What? I wasn't talking about the do's or don'ts of the Pentagon "secret" police watching this individual group... I was just stating a fact: You wear a mask in public you WILL be investigated. Thanks for taking that leap for me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 You stated Goldwater is your political hero, so it's a fair question after you said "though his militant anti-Communism was absolutely abominable". He was a fierce anti-communist and patriot, so I find it hard to believe he can be your "hero" if you disagree with a large part of what he stood for. One can be anti-war and be a fierce opponent of communism. In retrospect, perhaps calling him a hero was bit of a stretch, but I certainly admire him. There are a lot of people that I admire and view as heroes that have opinions that I abhor. George Orwell is a classic example ( he was a socialist). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Abraham Lincoln arrested 36,000 Americans during the Civil War. FDR threw 120,000 Americans into concentration camps. What do you say about that? I think the proof that our government is pretty lax when it comes to rounding up dissenters is the fact that all these libs are still typing. if the Patriot Act was as bad as the libs have whined about, how come all of them are still out in the streets protesting?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Abraham Lincoln arrested 36,000 Americans during the Civil War. Lincoln was a thug FDR threw 120,000 Americans into concentration camps. Ditto for FDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 :laugh: Yeah, I love communism. :laugh: How in the world did you arrive at that conclusion? Got to love the political debate in this country. I have been accused of being a market fundamentalist and being pro communist in the same week. Binary thinkers. You have to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I think the proof that our government is pretty lax when it comes to rounding up dissenters is the fact that all these libs are still typing. if the Patriot Act was as bad as the libs have whined about, how come all of them are still out in the streets protesting?!!Still typing? This is an example of "pretty lax"? I'm asking because your post made me curious. If the government tomorrow rounded up "dissenters" what would your reaction be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Couldn't agree more, the guy goes into defensive mode if anyone doesn't agree with a point of his, yet if someone else has one, then he dismisses it as invalid...Defending your position and weakening your political opponents is basically the central theme of political debate. Those are the rules of the game and chom certainly isn't the only one engaging in this behavior. I do find you your post ironic considering who you are agreeing with while making this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 depends what you mean by "dissenters". maybe you missed the hundreds of thousands of liberal wackjobs marching through NYC during the GOP convention last year? or Cindy Sheehan chaining herself to the White House gates? how about every Hollywood actor bravely standing in front of TV cameras around the world cursing out Bush? hmm, I actually have some great photos of a few thousand smelly hippies during GW's inauguration in DC last year. where exactly are these "arrests' of dissenters? so far I see the ACLU campaigning to free terrorists from prison. and bringing lawsuits to stop the NSA from monitoring Al-Queda. please show me this scary Bush world police state- because all I see is a country where tens of thousands of libs are granted free forums to castigate the administration. hardly a police state.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 please show me this scary Bush world police state- because all I see is a country where tens of thousands of libs are granted free forums to castigate the administration. hardly a police state.. I'm not really sure where this argument came from. I never once claimed Bush has created a "world police state". I never even came close to saying anything remotely similar to that. I asked you a direct question because your tone hinted that you may not be against a crack down on political dissenters. Rather than assume this however I asked you for clarification. What would your reaction be if the "tens of thousands of libs" currently "granted free forums to castigate the administration" where rounded up and jailed? I'm asking for your opinion only, not claiming this will be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Lincoln was a thug... Where do you come up with this stuff? Are you taking crack rides with Michael Irvin or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Lincoln was totally a thug. lucky is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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