Gibbs failed today's test

[OaktonSkins/BushFan]

Losers always whine about doing their best.

Winners go home and...

well you know the rest about the prom queen.

In any event, maybe Skins fans are so starved for playoff APPEARANCES that they forget what quality and competent offensive football is and they are willing to be UNcritical and homerific in their analyses and savagely critical of anything resembling unbelief in All That is Holy.

We JUST LOST A WINNABLE PLAYOFF GAME. Why do people expect this board to be roses and perfume today?

Ghost,

The point is that Gibbs has turned this franchise around completely in only the second year of his return. Are you telling us that you're not the least bit excited for next season given the tremendous progress made this year?

Come on.

[jrockster21]

1. The plays are too bunched up and are predictable. The reciever in motion always gets the ball

2. Patten and Thrash were not used when healthy. Patten was complaining how he is not involved

3. If you are depending on a 43 old to back up at guard, that is why you need a GM. Every team has injuries to the the oline

4. Brunell is almost 37. What do u expect? He has felt that knee since Jacksonville , that is why they drafted another QB and he was replaced then traded

Yeah, Brunell is almost 37...hater. He turned 35 this year. Keep on hating though.

[FlaSk1nsfan]

So what do you want to hear then?

You want this to be Disney land for the Redskins with everyone happy that we got to the 2nd round of the playoffs?

This team could have done more. We couldn't have asked for a better opponent than the playoff-failures that are the Seahawks.

We were handed 3 turnovers and had their best player knocked out.... Just admit that WE SHOULD HAVE WON THIS GAME.

Stop deluding yourself and thinking everything is OK, because it's not.

This should be a devestating loss to us. I'm tired of all the complacency here, it's making me sick.

I hate to say this but you have a few points here.

I am happy we made the playoffs but I feel like some people here are happy just getting there. Its a little like when the Wizards were wearing their "Second round" tee shirts after beating Chicago in the 1st round of the playoffs last year. I dont understand it really. I am more like the Miami Heat guys who were unhappy that they did not make it to the finals. No talk down here about how great the season was because the ALMOST got to the finals.

I am not saying I am unhappy with our season all together but I am not going to sit here and act like it was great beacuse we lost. WE LOST. Why cant we be pissed and unhappy at all? Lets not set the bar too low here all. Think you ever heard the Eagles say they were happy they got to the Superbowl or say how pissed they were not to win it?

[Tarhog]

You're an idiot.

Attack the post, not the poster.

[jrockster21]

I guarantee you every play called today was designed to go for a touchdown. Somewhere between the playbook and the whistle there is this thing called execution. For whatever reason, the OL had a mediocre day. Brunell had a mostly average day. Portis couldn't shake loose on anything. That's just how it worked out. We did everything we could with what we had to work with.

We are leaps and bounds ahead of where we were last year. Expect more improvement this offseason.

Holy crap there are still some brains left on this board!! Thank you, number twenty-eight...Its encouraging to see people with a fraction of intelligence on this board, it really is!!

Here's to next year!!

[jrockster21]

Attack the post, not the poster.

Sorry, Tarhog...I edited.

[OaktonSkins/BushFan]

I hate to say this but you have a few points here.

I am happy we made the playoffs but I feel like some people here are happy just getting there. Its a little like when the Wizards were wearing their "Second round" tee shirts after beating Chicago in the 1st round of the playoffs last year. I dont understand it really. I am more like the Miami Heat guys who were unhappy that they did not make it to the finals. No talk down here about how great the season was because the ALMOST got to the finals.

I am not saying I am unhappy with our season all together but I am not going to sit here and act like it was great beacuse we lost. WE LOST. Why cant we be pissed and unhappy at all? Lets not set the bar too low here all. Think you ever heard the Eagles say they were happy they got to the Superbowl or say how pissed they were not to win it?

Of course everyone's pissed from the players to the mgmt and the fans. But we have an incredibly solid foundation for next season, and have defied all expectations placed on the 'Skins for this past season. After a miserable 14 or so years, THIS feels good.

[Ghost of]

Ghost,

The point is that Gibbs has turned this franchise around completely in only the second year of his return. Are you telling us that you're not the least bit excited for next season given the tremendous progress made this year?

Come on.

Oakton,

I LOVE what GIbbs has instilled CHARACTER wise and ENTHUSIASM-wise. I've NEVER said differently.

In fact, I've also been more critical of a certain player and the coach's loyalty to him than I have the playcalling. I've seen chances that Gibbs has given the offense in playcalling wasted. I don't think it's Gibbs I out there yet, but that's part of my problem. I don't think we needed to be wild cards this year.

To me, we're behind schedule. We shouldn't have been 6-10 last year but for some of Gibbs issues (which he copped to, and getting Moss was huge, but we were better than 6-10 last year.) In some ways, while the O is MUCH better, I wonder if a more diverse and more interesting offensive scheme, even one that didn't always work and zone blocking (it may be 'power' but they've been using it more this year) would have netted more wins last year.

Again, this is a balanced criticism. I'm not strictly blaming the coach's playcalling and I think with a better leader, the same offense does a lot better. But I also see an offense that seems tailored to mask certain weaknesses. When Gibbs ends his irrational loyalty to certain guys, you will see other guys you thought 'stunk' reappear.

I still stand by my belief that this was an NFCCG team at worst. We were 5-6 partly BECAUSE of the coach and a couple players (and a couple injuries.) I think we lost today for much the same reason. (players, some coaching and injuries.)

But injuries will happen and not ALL players will be god-like.

I'm optimistic with reservations. I see some stubbornness that I don't recall being part of my impression of Joe the last time around.

[jrockster21]

Losers always whine about doing their best.

Winners go home and...

well you know the rest about the prom queen.

In any event, maybe Skins fans are so starved for playoff APPEARANCES that they forget what quality and competent offensive football is and they are willing to be UNcritical and homerific in their analyses and savagely critical of anything resembling unbelief in All That is Holy.

We JUST LOST A WINNABLE PLAYOFF GAME. Why do people expect this board to be roses and perfume today?

Yes...the game was winnable. But come on Ghosty...this team EXCEEDED expectations by a long shot. They came in to Seattle, and got out-executed. It happens. Teams lose games.

Can Gibbs change the fact that Rogers dropped an easy 6-point interception??

Can Gibbs help that Hall missed a chip-shot field goal to get within 4 points??

Can Gibbs get Taylor Jacobs' head out of his ass so he can catch a friggin ball???

The answer to these questions is no. They were in position to win, you are correct, but its not GIbbs on the field executing the plays. Gibbs deserves the credit for getting the team this far, not the blame for falling short.

[FlaSk1nsfan]

Of course everyone's pissed from the players to the mgmt and the fans. But we have an incredibly solid foundation for next season, and have defied all expectations placed on the 'Skins for this past season. After a miserable 14 or so years, THIS feels good.

I agree and I sat in my seats every year they lost too so I can say I have been with them win or lose every game and every year.

But I dont want us to be too content until we win it all.

I am happy about the season but lets not be too happy. We need to make sure next years goals are higher than the year before!

HTTR

Next year baby next year.

Ill leave with a little joke.

"Why is it that when a player scores a TD they always thank God and say it was his doing? "Then when they make a mistake they blame themselves"?

"How funny would it be to hear a guy say...yeah we were in the game till Jesus made me fumble"

[OaktonSkins/BushFan]

Oakton,

I LOVE what GIbbs has instilled CHARACTER wise and ENTHUSIASM-wise. I've NEVER said differently.

In fact, I've also been more critical of a certain player and the coach's loyalty to him than I have the playcalling. I've seen chances that Gibbs has given the offense in playcalling wasted. I don't think it's Gibbs I out there yet, but that's part of my problem. I don't think we needed to be wild cards this year.

To me, we're behind schedule. We shouldn't have been 6-10 last year but for some of Gibbs issues (which he copped to, and getting Moss was huge, but we were better than 6-10 last year.) In some ways, while the O is MUCH better, I wonder if a more diverse and more interesting offensive scheme, even one that didn't always work and zone blocking (it may be 'power' but they've been using it more this year) would have netted more wins last year.

Again, this is a balanced criticism. I'm not strictly blaming the coach's playcalling and I think with a better leader, the same offense does a lot better. But I also see an offense that seems tailored to mask certain weaknesses. When Gibbs ends his irrational loyalty to certain guys, you will see other guys you thought 'stunk' reappear.

I still stand by my belief that this was an NFCCG team at worst. We were 5-6 partly BECAUSE of the coach and a couple players (and a couple injuries.) I think we lost today for much the same reason. (players, some coaching and injuries.)

But injuries will happen and not ALL players will be god-like.

I'm optimistic with reservations. I see some stubbornness that I don't recall being part of my impression of Joe the last time around.

And I agree to some extent that the playcalling has been somewhat dubious at times. I also think that much of it has to do w/ a lack of faith in certain players, and therefore more reserved playcalling. With that said, I would have liked Gibbs - particularly today - to have just "gone for it". Mark my words - the addition of a stud #2 WR next season will allow Joe the confidence to open up the playbook.

[JimmyWilliamsFanClub]

GIBBS DID NOT FAIL TODAY!!! Shawn Springs biting on play action is not Joe GIbbs Fault!!!! Our entire team besides ST and MW bit on PA SO MANY TIMES. Even when Alexander was out we still be, why? I DO NOT KNOW. But Shawn Springs bit so hard on that pass TD it was ridiculous.. Gregg and Joe coached a GREAT game, players just didnt come throuhg on both sides of the ball.

[tizzod]

Oakton,

I LOVE what GIbbs has instilled CHARACTER wise and ENTHUSIASM-wise. I've NEVER said differently.

In fact, I've also been more critical of a certain player and the coach's loyalty to him than I have the playcalling. I've seen chances that Gibbs has given the offense in playcalling wasted. I don't think it's Gibbs I out there yet, but that's part of my problem. I don't think we needed to be wild cards this year.

To me, we're behind schedule. We shouldn't have been 6-10 last year but for some of Gibbs issues (which he copped to, and getting Moss was huge, but we were better than 6-10 last year.) In some ways, while the O is MUCH better, I wonder if a more diverse and more interesting offensive scheme, even one that didn't always work and zone blocking (it may be 'power' but they've been using it more this year) would have netted more wins last year.

Again, this is a balanced criticism. I'm not strictly blaming the coach's playcalling and I think with a better leader, the same offense does a lot better. But I also see an offense that seems tailored to mask certain weaknesses. When Gibbs ends his irrational loyalty to certain guys, you will see other guys you thought 'stunk' reappear.

I still stand by my belief that this was an NFCCG team at worst. We were 5-6 partly BECAUSE of the coach and a couple players (and a couple injuries.) I think we lost today for much the same reason. (players, some coaching and injuries.)

But injuries will happen and not ALL players will be god-like.

I'm optimistic with reservations. I see some stubbornness that I don't recall being part of my impression of Joe the last time around.

I have to admit, I lost some respect for you earlier, but gained some back with this post. Not that what I think makes any difference in the grand scheme of things! :laugh: But good job, finally verbalizing without being so stinkin' negative.

[Ghost of]

Yes...the game was winnable. But come on Ghosty...this team EXCEEDED expectations by a long shot. They came in to Seattle, and got out-executed. It happens. Teams lose games.

Can Gibbs change the fact that Rogers dropped an easy 6-point interception??

Can Gibbs help that Hall missed a chip-shot field goal to get within 4 points??

Can Gibbs get Taylor Jacobs' head out of his ass so he can catch a friggin ball???

The answer to these questions is no. They were in position to win, you are correct, but its not GIbbs on the field executing the plays. Gibbs deserves the credit for getting the team this far, not the blame for falling short.

Exceeded your expectations, perhaps. Not mine. And unlike other 'wishful thinking' years I really believed this year.

I don't blame GIbbs for a lot of what happened. But I don't think we're 5-6 and using up all our energy and health without Gibbs going into a shell for 3 games in a row. Maybe we go 10-6 in a different way, one that doesn't wear the team out? Or maybe going with a change after the NYG game when we ALL KNOW a certain guy can no longer play well with lower-body injuries? I don't know. I see some flaws there and I'm not going to gloss over them because a few players ( I DID say players, jrock and injuries!) came up short in a game that really shouldn't have been 17-3 late in the game. Really, we were lucky to come back. The Seahawks pulled a Gibbs and sat on their lead and hoped we went away, except they delivered what LOOKED like a killshot because they GO for it.

--Oakton---

Of course a #2 WR will help, but let's recall that we had our chances to go for "big and strong jump ball catcher" and refused. Perhaps that's because it was best for our overall talent level and a hole we had at CB. I don't disagree with that choice of Rogers.

But I think that a legit #2 will only help so much for a team that so OFTEN, to mask certain weaknesses, will run one wideout sets to run power, or because someone likes to look at ONE guy on a given play. I will have to run the preseason numbers to see what Patten and other guys did, but I truly believe until we see someone who GIVES US that intermediate and middle of the field passing game, we will see some of the same flaws.

I don't think Gibbs does that deliberately. I believe he does it to play to the strengths of what he has under center (and to SOME extent at wideout.)

--Jrock

It ain't a Charade (c, brutha, c.) You can't prove a negative. I have my belief and it really wasn't disproven. TheSteve will drop some numbers for you in the coming days or weeks. I didn't feel like doing all the research but when you see them, there's no possible way you can think that was our 'best option' down the stretch. (esp since the knee injury.) Again, we simply believe different things, but there isn't definitive proof for your side. It's not as if I liked a guy who played like Jon Quinn and you like the guy who played like Tom Brady and had multiple 2 and 3 hundred yard passing games.

There's still a dispute for a reason. Trust me, earlier on I gave him his properos, when his play warranted it. We were pretty explosive for a time.

[jrockster21]

I LOVE what GIbbs has instilled CHARACTER wise and ENTHUSIASM-wise. I've NEVER said differently.

In fact, I've also been more critical of a certain player and the coach's loyalty to him than I have the playcalling. I've seen chances that Gibbs has given the offense in playcalling wasted. I don't think it's Gibbs I out there yet, but that's part of my problem. I don't think we needed to be wild cards this year.

To me, we're behind schedule. We shouldn't have been 6-10 last year but for some of Gibbs issues (which he copped to, and getting Moss was huge, but we were better than 6-10 last year.) In some ways, while the O is MUCH better, I wonder if a more diverse and more interesting offensive scheme, even one that didn't always work and zone blocking (it may be 'power' but they've been using it more this year) would have netted more wins last year.

Again, this is a balanced criticism. I'm not strictly blaming the coach's playcalling and I think with a better leader, the same offense does a lot better. But I also see an offense that seems tailored to mask certain weaknesses. When Gibbs ends his irrational loyalty to certain guys, you will see other guys you thought 'stunk' reappear.

I still stand by my belief that this was an NFCCG team at worst. We were 5-6 partly BECAUSE of the coach and a couple players (and a couple injuries.) I think we lost today for much the same reason. (players, some coaching and injuries.)

But injuries will happen and not ALL players will be god-like.

I'm optimistic with reservations. I see some stubbornness that I don't recall being part of my impression of Joe the last time around.

Come on, Nibbs...I expect more from you than this. We played well...the injury to Randy finally bit us in the ass. Of course our offense was masking some weaknesses...every offense in the NFL "masks" their weaknesses. I mean, come on, dude! Are you serious???

And get off the Brunell thing...he was the correct choice this year, and you and everyone knows it. Its pretty ridiculous that you are continuing this sharade.

[OaktonSkins/BushFan]

Or maybe going with a change after the NYG game when we ALL KNOW a certain guy can no longer play well with lower-body injuries? I don't know.

Come on, Ghost. Brunnell's numbers were similar to Hasselbeck's yesterday. Plus, the REAL problem was - and has been ovee the past 3 games - an inconsistent OL.

[jrockster21]

Exceeded your expectations, perhaps. Not mine. And unlike other 'wishful thinking' years I really believed this year.

I don't blame GIbbs for a lot of what happened. But I don't think we're 5-6 and using up all our energy and health without Gibbs going into a shell for 3 games in a row. Maybe we go 10-6 in a different way, one that doesn't wear the team out? Or maybe going with a change after the NYG game when we ALL KNOW a certain guy can no longer play well with lower-body injuries? I don't know. I see some flaws there and I'm not going to gloss over them because a few players ( I DID say players, jrock and injuries!) came up short in a game that really shouldn't have been 17-3 late in the game. Really, we were lucky to come back. The Seahawks pulled a Gibbs and sat on their lead and hoped we went away, except they delivered what LOOKED like a killshot because they GO for it.

Dude...get over the Brunell stuff. Brunell is the reason we were in this game; you know it, and everyone else knows it. Brunell gave us the best chance to win all year...

[Ghost of]

Dude...get over the Brunell stuff. Brunell is the reason we were in this game; you know it, and everyone else knows it. Brunell gave us the best chance to win all year...

No. That's YOUR opinion. This isn't incontrovertible. I posted the response in my edited long reply to different posters.

And as usual, you go into picking out what you guys THINK will get everyone on my case. I'm standing by my pick because after Oct 30th, the numbers bear out something different than what you guys tell me.

I also explained about the pass drops and backpedaling which CREATES a rush. That this gets borne out time and time again...well, who's right? THe one who broke down the video and came up with someone that was borne out by the season after correctly predicting the season BEFORE...or the cats who don't want any criticism of the guy who the team won in spite of to make the playoffs?

(and yes, we need some O-line depth and one more year to come together and be consistent. I think that's part of it.)

[Joncevensen]

I think Gibbs should be applauded for his coaching job today, his entire offense is based on running the football, and that was not working in the first half. He revamped the entire offense in twelve minutes at half time and started throwing. Think about it, we came a split second from moss catching that pass. Gibbs took a stagnant offense and got some life into it. I think today also the in game injuries killed us. For the hand Gibbs was dealt today, and what he made of it; I give him an A+, because he coached and called the right plays. We had a chance to win today, we just could not capitalize on our oppurtunities.

[jrockster21]

No. That's YOUR opinion. This isn't incontrovertible. I posted the response in my edited long reply to different posters.

Not only MY opinion, but the opinion of a hall of fame coach who has won 3 superbowls. Kind of helps my argument a little!

We may never know how Ramsey does with a full season in this offense, because he will probably never start for Joe Gibbs. He's had EVERY opportunity to earn that job, but hasn't been able to. You can't HONESTLY believe Gibbs wouldn't start Ramsey if he was the better QB, right????

And as usual, you go into picking out what you guys THINK will get everyone on my case. I'm standing by my pick because after Oct 30th, the numbers bear out something different than what you guys tell me.

I also explained about the pass drops and backpedaling which CREATES a rush. That this gets borne out time and time again...well, who's right? THe one who broke down the video and came up with someone that was borne out by the season after correctly predicting the season BEFORE...or the cats who don't want any criticism of the guy who the team won in spite of to make the playoffs?

(and yes, we need some O-line depth and one more year to come together and be consistent. I think that's part of it.)

I addressed the point in your post I found the most pertinent, not what I thought anyone else would care about...you continue to dog on Brunell (although not mentioning him by name in a very cowardly fashion) when he was a HUGE part of why we made it this far.

Yeah, he migh back pedal a little far some times. But the OL still has to block for him. And after watching him and other QBs, he doesn't drop back some abnormal amount...it might be slightly more than most, but its not ridiculously far or anything. I just think you (and other posters on this board) have it out for Brunell, and are trying everything in your power to make him the scapegoat for 05. Its okay...you can either embrace Mark (95% chance he's our starter next year) or continue to hate on him. He brings a lot to the table, and is our best chance to win.

[Doctor ToughLove]

The WR problems predated Gibbs. And that is what killed the offense - Moss caught everything in double coverage, & yet the rest of the WRs did nothing.

[Ghost of]

Again, your beliefs, jrock.

How is it a 14 year old saw Keenan McCardell's talent or wanted to keep Stan Humphries or thought Tom Brady would be a clutch player (though not THIS great) when many GMs didn't? (Ok, I did like Desmond Howard--OUCH! But so did that HoFer.)

Sorry, I have my own 'gut.' You stated your opinions about our 'best chance' as fact. That's fine but it's impossible to address it or properly counter it. Just wait til those numbers are laid out for you. You guys like to talk about "playoffs" or "10-6" but when someone brings concrete SPECIFIC numbers to you or when LONG-validated observations are borne out--nah, we don't want to hear that.

Art and DH have both been critical of the offense or Brunell at some point. The joys of being a mod, I suppose, though DH was hit hard after his post. And you know what? he was still right. He just underestimated the rest of the team (something I didn't do, but do I get credit for that? nah. Never.)

And BTW, it's not cowardly to not mention a name. I get sick of SEEING the name and I think my points are better made by referring to people without naming them ALL the time (I've done the same with Ramsey, in fact I name him less often and this isn't about him anymore.)

I see a 12-4 team that went 10-6 and a bunch of fans WAY too ecstatic about that and about a guy who we won in SPITE of for all but a few games. (that's what a good backup is, a guy who is pretty good as a spot starter but who you don't want to rely on the whole season.)

And with every other player, I see hammering and criticism and blame with NO excuses. But with this dude, all I see are free passes and justifications NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES. Dude can throw TWO passes TWO WEEKS in a row across his body with his weak arm. You guys defend him. He does SO MANY of the same things PRam was accused of doing.

A long time ago, this topic became not about the two players but the divide in how the two factions see the world. It's still evident and it will remain so until the wind changes and Gibbs makes his next decision which you will all back 100 percent and then if he changes again, you'll be cool with that too. Nothing will EVER possibly be wrong or in need of SOME adjustment. I don't stick my thumb in the wind waiting for mainstream currents. I don't pick topics or cases to 'go against the grain' but I also DONT CARE about going with your grain.

I like you guys, (yes, even Illone but I'm not going to stop believing I'm right. I didn't see much this year other than a few games (a couple that we LOST) to suggest I should change my viewpoint.

I wonder what this board would have been like with ANYONE ELSE at coach (or maybe during Turner's early years.)

I don't know. I'm sure we're all disappointed but it feels like some people are more satisfied than I am. I hurt and I feel sick today. I do NOT feel good or happy with the turnaround. Not TODAY. It's why I dont' get this outpouring of 'let's keep positive.' Why? We LOST a playoff game that I think we should have won (only next week would I have questioned that or in the SB.) I can only hope this is the START and is not a high water mark.

[jrockster21]

The WR problems predated Gibbs. And that is what killed the offense - Moss caught everything in double coverage, & yet the rest of the WRs did nothing.

I agree...we had to live with Spurrier's poor choice of WR in Jacobs, but he's gone after this year I think. After this game its clear that WR is the position that needs the most attention in the offseason.

[Ghost of]

I agree...we had to live with Spurrier's poor choice of WR in Jacobs, but he's gone after this year I think. After this game its clear that WR is the position that needs the most attention in the offseason.

Coulda had Osi Humanurine with that pick.

[kingchris626]

I'm very happy with Gibbs back. But I think he, or someone else from the offensive side of the coaching staff is being way to conservative