Alright....I'll say it, Ramsey should not be our starting QB.

[SkinsFTW]

Anybody know what this number is: 95.3

How about this one: 87.9

[docsandy]

I'll say here what I've said other places.. when Gibbs benched Ramsey after the first game, I had a hard time with it because I am of the belief that a player should not lose a starting role due to injury.

But I also felt that I needed to have faith in Gibbs and his decisions and gut feelings.

Again.. now, I say the same thing. If he decides to put in Ramsey, I will have faith that this is the best thing for the Redskins.

That's why he's the coach and I'm a fan. :notworthy

[Ynot]

Just becasue Ramsey got pulled in the first game after he lead two drives agaisnt the #1 defense in the league Da Bears! His interception was because the receiver let the ball go thru his hands and the fumble was because his head was taken off and shouldhave been a personal foul penalty specially when you see other guys just put there hands on the quarterbacks helmet and it is called, Ramsey had is helmet ripped off!

I just believe Gibbs all along wanted Ramsey to have time to season some more with Brunnell at quarterback to show how to play a little more conservative at the beginning of games. Remember he has only played in 24 games! Eli has played in more and he sucked last year and at times this year Eli has Sucked! At least Eli has had the benefit of having been under the same system his entire Pro career with Ramsey having a new system almost every other year and having a bad one under Spurrier who now decides in South Carolina to run the ball when he does not have the talent at offensive line and recievers! To bad spurrier did not learn that while in the NFL!

Lay off Patrick and think JG for keeping him here as we probably would ahve lost that game yesterday if had to have Campbell come in and that is why Ramsey will Start Next year and Brunnell will be the back up and mentor to Ramsey and Campbell as GIbbs never in his carreer not have 2 ready quarterbacks except for last year! When Brunnell was hurt and Ramsey not use to the Pro style offense of Gibbs!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

His solid play on Saturday is precisely the reason that Gibbs classifies our QB situation as "strong" in my opinion. We've been able to rely on Brunell all season, he's played well. Now, when Brunell hurt his knee, Ramsey came in and led us to 14 second half points to ice away a division game.

If he can come in and play within the system vs. Philly, we'll be fine and should be headed to the playoffs.

[Underwater Ally]

but hey its hard to argue with brunells 22TDs and 8(?) INTS.

I'm a big fan of the idea that numbers require context to be fully understood. In compiling those 22 TDs and 8 INTs, sometimes he has looked very good, other times he has looked very bad. Put the ups and downs all together within the context of a very conservative gameplan with very few high risk passes, and thats how the numbers come out.

Brunell is a very smart quarterback, but he is also a quarterback who is dependent on his mobility more than anything else to make things happen. If you take away his mobility, he is still smart, but he just isn't physically able to play at a high level. Thats why it is so crucial that he be 100% if he gets the start, not so much because that is what we need against Philly, but that is what we will need come playoff time.

The thing with ramsey is that the trust is not there for one reason or another. Everytime he throws down field i bite my lip and hope i dont see a corner snap an INT. With Brunell, there is a reassurance with his experience and accuracy.

There is some truth to this, but Ramsey is a quarterback who's confidence grows while on the field. Seeing him come into the game in the middle without full preparation was hardly ideal, but he ended up "managing" the game very well and his confidence and comfort clearly grew after he hit Moss for the big one. The only INT he's thrown this season was on a play where the reciever ran the wrong route. At least one of his preseason INTs was one Gibbs singled out where they realised that they needed to make changes to how the play was drawn up.

It's been a long time since August/September, and both Ramsey and our offensive system have been refined since that time. We'll be just fine if he gets the start this week.

[Underwater Ally]

Damn, I like that one Sonny. We could get a horse for lavar and Willams' ego and Gibbs being out of it and Buges and Brunell and Portis/Bailey and....

I think we stole that horse from a cowboy

[scrol14]

Ramsey is the man! He will get the job done in Philly if need be and Brunell will be back for the 1st Playoff game.

I have to throw this out there:::: Who threw that pick for a touchdown in the first half, Oh yea that was Brunell. Didnt I see One of our QB's under throw a deeep ball by 10yards in the first half that resulted in a TD::: Oh that was Brunell also.

I believe Ramsey had a less than perfect throw for a TD, but guess what he didnt throw a pick, force a throw or get sacked, I think I even saw ole PR scramble and throw one away.

We can win with either QB so SHUT UP about QB's and get excited about this team and its chnce to go to the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Underwater Ally]

I believe Ramsey had a less than perfect throw for a TD, but guess what he didnt throw a pick, force a throw or get sacked, I think I even saw ole PR scramble and throw one away.

We can win with either QB so SHUT UP about QB's and get excited about this team and its chnce to go to the playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

:applause:

Despite what some may say, Ramsey clearly has shown signs of progress. We haven't had extensive proof, but the signs are undeniably there.

The good news is we have TWO quarterbacks capable of beating the Eagles. That is a lot more than the Eagles can say about their situation

:eaglesuck

[Om]

The Patrick Ramsey we saw Saturday looked like the Patrick Ramsey we saw at the end of 2004---decisive, quick to get rid of the ball, managing the offense effectively---and NOT the one we saw in camp and through the 2005 preseason; the one who looked awkward and uncomfortable in the pocket, and had seemingly regressed a ton over the offseason.

If Patrick has to play Sunday (and beyond?), the hope is that going against a defense that, unlike NY, will have game-planned for him and will no doubt try to pressure him into mistakes, he will continue to be as quick and sharp with the ball, and operate with the same clock in his head, as be displayed Saturday. THAT Ramsey is one this team can win with (though you'd really like Brunell's big-game experience to lean on at this point). The other one ... well, makes folks a bit nervous.

If Pat plays, we'll likely know in the first few series which it's going to be.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

gonna try and focus on the positives i took from the situation:

1. Brunell should be our starter if he can go. period.

2. It was great to see Patrick have his moment in the sun after a long, arduous year on the bench. I was truly happy for him on that TD. I hope it earns him a few extra bucks next year in some other city.

3. Most of all, i truly enjoyed seeing how happy Brunell was FOR ramsey on the sidelines. not to mention, all the other guys who came up and congratulated him. These are signs of a TEAM, with one common goal.

Lynn Swann is in the H.O.F., Art Monk is not. big fat WTF?!?!?!?!?

[nneece]

I like Ramsey as a person. Every interview I have seen, he always says the right things, seems like a genuine, humble individual, and it's very impressive how he has supported the team and Mark throughout the season.

So it's understandable that many of you want to see him as our QB and succeed. But c'mon....he will not be our future QB. Can he be a serviceable qb for some other team?...Yes, but he won't be our starting qb next year or the year after.

I'm impressed that Ramsey came in cold and played fairly well under a tough situation. But he didn't have to throw many passes, had a good running game behind him, and the one long pass he had was actually high and behind Moss, who made the great play to turn it into a td.

Until Ramsey PROVES that he can run a Gibbs run offense without false starts (which he had on Sat) and can throw accurately, I just don't believe he is a better option than even a banged up Brunell.

Lastly, please explain to me how some of you feel as though we would have the same record or even a better record if he was starting the entire season? I just don't see it. I will say that for him to sit behind Brunell this year, unlike last year when the entire team was just not good, will go a long way toward his improvement....but on another team.

Let's start with the last one first. We will never know, will we? PR never got a chance to start so we will never know if he could have been better, or worse, then MB. It's a futile argument, let it die.

Re: false starts. Ok, so what if he did commit a few false starts? Can any QB come in cold after not playing an entire season and make 0 mistakes? No. I think your argument gets to the root of the problem: PR has never been given a fair shake with the Redskins organization or under Gibbs. I personally think that he played well enough last season to earn a starting spot. He would make mistakes, interceptions, etc. but perhaps after 2- 3 games he improves. Maybe he doesn't and at that point he needs to be benched. But the bottom line is we never got a chance to see what PR could do in a close to full functioning Gibbs offense.

The argument about the pass is just silly. Moss and other receivers have to make adjustments on Brunell's passes all the time. Did you see the pass Moss caught against Dallas on the 1 yd. line? That would have been an uncatchable ball for most receivers.

[Art McDonough]

I would feel much better if Brunell starts because of the continuity thing. If it were reversed and Ramsey had been the starter all year, I would want him to start. Both are capable but I want the guy who has been there all year, if possible. What I do hope, though, is whatever happens, it will remain a secret until gametime. I want Philly to have to prepare for both eventualities. We need as many edges as we can get. What would be the best of all possible senerios would be that Brunell would start and throw 5 TD passes in the first half and be able to rest in the second. 35-0 at halftime would look awfully good.

[Seabee1973]

That wouldnt prove anything.

1st of all its against a depleted philly team...that lost to Arz. 2nd of all, lets see how well portis ran. 3rd of all, one game means so little. 4th of all, if you say that, you are just as bad as the media fat heads who hitch a ride on the closest bandwagon.

1 game will disprove years of playing? I doubt it.

You make it sound like he has been in the league 10 years instead of making 24 starts. 24 thats all what were other qb records in there 24th start probably with the exception of a few not very good

[Underwater Ally]

What would be the best of all possible senerios would be that Brunell would start and throw 5 TD passes in the first half and be able to rest in the second. 35-0 at halftime would look awfully good.

Now thats a compromise we can all live with! :laugh:

[Seabee1973]

Now thats a compromise we can all live with! :laugh:

How about if Ramsey did that and campbell was able to come in?

[Peregrine]

skinsfan93.... you are a genuine idiot.

First off, you say he didnt prove anything because he had a good running game behind him, didnt have to make tough throws, and threw the pass behind moss? HELLO, you just described Mark Brunell throughout this season and ESPECIALLY in that game. I didnt hear you criticize Brunells deep ball, probobly one of the WORST thrown deep balls ive ever seen. Moss beats his man by about 5 feet easy, Brunell, trying to throw the ball ahead where no one is, throws it WAY left and behind him, Moss makes an amazing adjustment. Ramseys throw was maybe a foot and a half behind Moss.

Ramseys history:

1st year: Became one of 3 rookie QBs in NFL history to throw more TD passes than Interceptions.

2nd year; Played part of the year because injury forced him out. Under the horrific Spurrier blocking scheme still threw 14 TDs and 11 Ints.

3rd year: Doesnt start, plays a partial year for the third year in a row when he comes in late in the season. His first 2 relief appearances are very poor, with lots of interceptions. However he starts the final 5 games and throws 8 TDs and 5 INT(againts 3 playoff bound teams), with a QB rating in the 90 range.

4th year: This year, benched after first quarter of bears game, comes in relief against Giants, plays very well, shows signs that he has learned to not force the ball, and not hesitate, and instead dump it off or throw it away.

I dont know about you, but thats a track record ill take anyday.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

skinsfan93.... you are a genuine idiot.

First off, you say he didnt prove anything because he had a good running game behind him, didnt have to make tough throws, and threw the pass behind moss? HELLO, you just described Mark Brunell throughout this season and ESPECIALLY in that game. I didnt hear you criticize Brunells deep ball, probobly one of the WORST thrown deep balls ive ever seen. Moss beats his man by about 5 feet easy, Brunell, trying to throw the ball ahead where no one is, throws it WAY left and behind him, Moss makes an amazing adjustment. Ramseys throw was maybe a foot and a half behind Moss.

Ramseys history:

1st year: Became one of 3 rookie QBs in NFL history to throw more TD passes than Interceptions.

2nd year; Played part of the year because injury forced him out. Under the horrific Spurrier blocking scheme still threw 14 TDs and 11 Ints.

3rd year: Doesnt start, plays a partial year for the third year in a row when he comes in late in the season. His first 2 relief appearances are very poor, with lots of interceptions. However he starts the final 5 games and throws 8 TDs and 5 INT(againts 3 playoff bound teams), with a QB rating in the 90 range.

4th year: This year, benched after first quarter of bears game, comes in relief against Giants, plays very well, shows signs that he has learned to not force the ball, and not hesitate, and instead dump it off or throw it away.

I dont know about you, but thats a track record ill take anyday.

i think Skinsfan is actually dead-on here. to call him an "idiot" as you say, is not only inaccurate, but veering towards unnecessary roughness on your part.

[Peregrine]

yeah as mentioned above...... he has 24 starts. Guess who has about 22 starts? Eli Manning. Now THATS a team that develops a rookie QB.

[nneece]

yeah as mentioned above...... he has 24 starts. Guess who has about 22 starts? Eli Manning. Now THATS a team that develops a rookie QB.

They are developing him, but does he look bad at times and make bad decisions, absolutely.

[Peregrine]

Hateyanks, well that certainly makes sense. After all he provided nothing to back up his notion Ramsey hasnt proved anything, and that he had "false starts" in last game. Oh wait he didnt, and I at least did.

And please... can we stop with the horrid abuse of football lingo.

[skinsfan93]

skinsfan93.... you are a genuine idiot.

First off, you say he didnt prove anything because he had a good running game behind him, didnt have to make tough throws, and threw the pass behind moss? HELLO, you just described Mark Brunell throughout this season and ESPECIALLY in that game. I didnt hear you criticize Brunells deep ball, probobly one of the WORST thrown deep balls ive ever seen. Moss beats his man by about 5 feet easy, Brunell, trying to throw the ball ahead where no one is, throws it WAY left and behind him, Moss makes an amazing adjustment. Ramseys throw was maybe a foot and a half behind Moss.

Ramseys history:

1st year: Became one of 3 rookie QBs in NFL history to throw more TD passes than Interceptions.

2nd year; Played part of the year because injury forced him out. Under the horrific Spurrier blocking scheme still threw 14 TDs and 11 Ints.

3rd year: Doesnt start, plays a partial year for the third year in a row when he comes in late in the season. His first 2 relief appearances are very poor, with lots of interceptions. However he starts the final 5 games and throws 8 TDs and 5 INT(againts 3 playoff bound teams), with a QB rating in the 90 range.

4th year: This year, benched after first quarter of bears game, comes in relief against Giants, plays very well, shows signs that he has learned to not force the ball, and not hesitate, and instead dump it off or throw it away.

I dont know about you, but thats a track record ill take anyday.

I'm a genuine idiot, huh?

Track record....why do people still bring up Ramsey's first couple of years with Spurrier? It's over with, he had his opportunity prior to this season and did not meet the challenge. Do you think Gibbs pulled him in the first game because he had complete faith in his ability to win a game?

Well, you can take that track record with you when Ramsey is playing for a different team....

[skinsfan93]

I didnt hear you criticize Brunells deep ball, probobly one of the WORST thrown deep balls ive ever seen. Moss beats his man by about 5 feet easy, Brunell, trying to throw the ball ahead where no one is, throws it WAY left and behind him, Moss makes an amazing adjustment. Ramseys throw was maybe a foot and a half behind Moss.

Yes, I didn't criticize Brunell's deep ball to Moss. Yes, it wasn't a great throw at all and Moss made an amazing adjustment to catch it. BUT....Brunell has thrown the deep ball fairly well this year and not just in the first Cowboy game.

Ramsey for having a strong arm has really never been accurate on his long throws...the 40-50 yard throws. I could probably count on 1 hand the number of long throws that he has made in his entire career (albeit a short career) that were accurate or on the money.

[Peregrine]

Oh good rebutal.

Why do we bring up his track record? Because he played well while getting the crap beaten out of him. Perhaps this is to difficult for you to understand. You talk in this thread about him having to prove himself, other people say one game doenst disprove his past, and yet in the same thread you blast anyone using his track record? Pay attention to your own words. Did not meet the challenge? HELLO? One of 3 rookie QBs in NFL history to throw more TDs than Ints. His second season in partial play he threw 14 TD and 11 INTs, with a good QB rating.

"Do you think Gibbs pulled him in the first game because he had complete faith in his ability to win a game? " Obviously this is just a stupid question. Gibbs pulled him and cut Brown for the same reason, because he doesnt like turnovers.

Ramseys stats in his last 5 games of last year, and his 2 main appearances this year(giants and bears):

113-167 c/a 1222 yds 8 tds-5 ints

Yeah, he sucks. A 67% completion rating, QB rating above 95, 7.3 ypa, 203ypg. Give credit where credit is due. (BTW every one of those is above Brunells output this season, not saying he hasnt performed well, but give credit where credit is due)

[jnhay]

I like Ramsey as a person. Every interview I have seen, he always says the right things, seems like a genuine, humble individual, and it's very impressive how he has supported the team and Mark throughout the season.

So it's understandable that many of you want to see him as our QB and succeed. But c'mon....he will not be our future QB. Can he be a serviceable qb for some other team?...Yes, but he won't be our starting qb next year or the year after.

I'm impressed that Ramsey came in cold and played fairly well under a tough situation. But he didn't have to throw many passes, had a good running game behind him, and the one long pass he had was actually high and behind Moss, who made the great play to turn it into a td.

Until Ramsey PROVES that he can run a Gibbs run offense without false starts (which he had on Sat) and can throw accurately, I just don't believe he is a better option than even a banged up Brunell.

Lastly, please explain to me how some of you feel as though we would have the same record or even a better record if he was starting the entire season? I just don't see it. I will say that for him to sit behind Brunell this year, unlike last year when the entire team was just not good, will go a long way toward his improvement....but on another team.

Brunell will play through pain, but he won't play if it's unreasonable and if the team would be better off with Ramsey. In the long term, I don't know if Ramsey's a good starter, but for a couple of games, he'll be good enough.

[Om]

skinsfan93.... you are a genuine idiot.

Peregrine ... you are genuinely risking administrative action. I strongly recommend you review the Rules.