QB Reality Check

[MRMADD]

The contendah's:

Sugar Shane Matthews, career passer rating of 75, completes about 60% of his passes and throws as many TDs as INTs. No reason to think that will change. Not real mobile, not much of an arm, and hardly a team leader.

Danny Woeful, 1997 Heisman Trophy winner, career passer rating of 50, completes less than half of his passes and throws about 2 INTs for every TD. Not real mobile, not much of an arm, and hardly a team leader.

Sage Raisinbread, second-year Marty pick with no career stats. Not real mobile, decent arm, and totally inexperienced.

Patrick"My Agent Made Me Do It" Ramsey , rookie second-round pick (OK, it was the first round, but only because of expansion). Rumors of a strong arm and field smarts.

Commentary: Lots of recent Superbowl winners have started the season with unknown quantities at QB. The Rams lost Trent Green to injury and had to start an Arena-league grocery bagger at QB. The Ravens had a QB who went weeks without scoring a TD. The Pats threw an inexperienced mid-round pick in there. So it can be done. However...

Those teams had very significant other factors at play. The Rams had a phenomenal supporting cast on offense. The Ravens had an unreal defense. The Patriots... well, who can explain the Pats? Maybe the league just wanted a team named the Patriots to win after Sept 11.

But the Skins don't have those things. I guess they're closest to the Ravens with their stellar defense. The best we can hope is that the Skins defense can pitch some shutouts. Get ready for some ugly offense.

Sigh... just imagine a year from now when Ramsey has a year of experience standing next to Spurrier, and someone in the FO wakes up and drafts OGs in the first and second round.

[Mad Mike]

MRMADD

I hope you are hungry. You are going to be eating a lot of crow when the O line gets fixed and this team starts putting up a ton of points in the regular season.:joker:

[MRMADD]

I hope you're right. I hope Spurrier has some secret sauce to pour over this collection of dried-out burger patties to turn them into a nice sandwich for me.

But I doubt it. I don't think the problem with the offensive line is just a question of them having time to get "fixed". The talent isn't there. Last year we made some late additions (like we'll probably do this year) and it took five games for them to get it together. Five LOSSES. And the schedule this year, after the first week bye against Arizone, is tough early.

The trouble with the Skins QBs behind that line is that none of them are mobile. They either get rid of the ball quickly or they'll get killed. All credit to Samuels and Jansen, but they can't do it by themselves. Worse, they haven't proven they can run block (I know, I know, they haven't really tried) so Stephen Davis may not be able to rescue us.

Does any really view our offense as better this year than we thought at this time last year? Last year we had two great tackles and a great RB. Same as this year. Last year we had uncertainty at QB, but hope that a certain hothead who thought leadership was "overrated" would finally realize his potential. We had hope at WR with a healthy star in Westbroken, a first-rounder in Gardner, and a wily veteran addition. Does all this sound familiar?

I think anyone who feels comfortable with our offense is delusional. Yeah, Spurrier is a great bawl coach. Yeah, he's got his old gang back together. But these QBs are a bunch of retreads that an expansion team didn't want as backups!

I hope I'm wrong.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by Mad Mike

MRMADD

I hope you are hungry. You are going to be eating a lot of crow when the O line gets fixed and this team starts putting up a ton of points in the regular season.:joker:

What he said. I have my doubts about the OL, but if it sucks this year, I'm sure Spurrier will insist on it being fixed by 2003.

I expect no later than 2003 to see regular passing domination by a Wuerffel-led Redskin offense. If we're lucky, we might even see that often enough this year.

[MRMADD]

<<I expect no later than 2003 to see regular passing domination by a Wuerffel-led Redskin offense. If we're lucky, we might even see that often enough this year.>> Atlanta

I just don't understand this blind optimism. Wuerffel has a career passer rating of 50! He's a rag-armed journeyman that no one wanted but Spurrier. I'll admit he's had his moments in the preseason, but they've been largely against backups. He hasn't proven anything yet. I hope he does, but for now I think the best we can hope is that the defense dominates and forces turnovers, and the offense is just good enough not to lose games.

Regular passing DOMINATION by a Weurffel-led offense? I mean, that would be funny if it weren't so delusional. Have you seen the guy? He has the prototypical quarterback body -- for a junior high school quarterback. Have you seen his arms? Come on, Atlanta: next year Ramsey will hopefully be ready to take the reins. Spurrier brought in these two former Gators just as a temporary solution: they know the offense and can keep Ramsey's seat warm for a year. Wuerffel is NOT the future.

I do think Spurrier will take chances and create opportunities through his aggressive playcalling. But even he hasn't dared suggest that Wuerffel will DOMINATE! I'm very optimistic about the future of the Skins with Spurrier, but to expect him to come in and save the world in a few months is just dumb. Give the guy a break! Set your expectations a little lower and let Spurrier surprise you.

[Pete]

Funny how QB stats can be squed. If a guy plays in just two or three games, and does well, he'll have a great rating.

[bulldog]

what yesterday's game showed was that while Danny is probably better suited to being here than anywhere else in the NFL as a quarterback, he isn't going to be a midnight messiah for the Redskins

does that mean he can' t be effective? No.

I have no doubt that if he is the starting quarterback the Redskins will greatly improve on their offensive numbers from last season.

At the same time looking ahead I see another quarterback at the helm when this team is ready to dominate opponents and go to a Super Bowl.

If Rosenfels being in his second year could pick up the offense and give a credible impression of a starting qb in the race with Matthews and Wuerffel in 2002, there is no reason Ramsey can't do the same thing in 2003, AND GO FURTHER.

If you meld together Spurrier's offensive creativity with an arm that can make all the throws in the NFL, the Redskins offense could be close to the Rams in terms of productivity.

But that is a ways off.

This year I think is about getting over .500 and back to real respectability.

2003 is the breakout year for the Redskins.

If Spurrier is the kind of maverick we have been told I wouldn't put it past him to embrace Ramsey in the offseason and open up camp with him as his #1 quarterback for next season.

Sure, at times it appeared Ramsey wasn't going to stay a Redskin and times where Spurrier didn't look as if he wanted him.

But games like yesterday, where the starting quarterback short-armed a ball or two and the #2 did the same thing, has to make enough of an impression for Ramsey, once he gets his sea legs, to stand up and get into the mix and ultimately win out and take us to where we need to go

[Orange&Blue Skins]

and hardly a team leader

Not only is he the all time most efficent passer in NCAA history, he is also among the all time leaders in passing efficency in the World League. He was the leader that took his teams to the NCAA National Championship and the NFL's World Bowl.

He is a leader in every respect of the word and commands the respect of his teams.:doh: :shootinth :doh: :shootinth :doh: :shootinth :doh: :shootinth

[Tom [Giants fan]]

While I don't see the Redskins competing for the Super Bowl this year, I believe a year under Spurrier and the Redskins will be on their way to returning to their 80's form. I also believe the Giants will as well in a year or maybe even two as they are very young. I don't think Spurrier is going to come into the NFL and light it up right away. I think it will take a year for him to make some adjustments in the NFL. I also believe that the 2003 starting QB for the Washington Redskins is not even on the team this year. Don't ask me who it will be but I just don't think it will be anyone you have now. That is just a gut feeling. Take it for what it's worth. Unless of course Spurrier has that much devotion to DW.

[MRMADD]

<<Not only is he the all time most efficent passer in NCAA history, he is also among the all time leaders in passing efficency in the World League. He was the leader that took his teams to the NCAA National Championship and the NFL's World Bowl.

He is a leader in every respect of the word and commands the respect of his teams.>> Orange and Blue

These Gator fans sure are defensive. Look, it's great that he won a national championship and won the Heisman. But that was college. In the NFL, he's thrown more INTs than TDs and his career passer rating is 50. That hardly commands respect. This is his sixth season in the league -- do you know how many games he's started? Six! Six games in six years.

You Gator fans are like the Elvis fans who think he's still alive. No amount of facts will change your mind. The truth is that the only way Woeful will command respect is to prove he can lead the team to victory. He hasn't done that yet in the NFL.

Listen, I hope he does great. I just think it's pretty silly to expect these guys to be any better than what they've proven to be: below-average NFL QBs.

[MRMADD]

And Matthews has started 15 games in 10 seasons with a passer rating of 75.

I think they can do well in Spurrier's offense, but acting like the previous 10 years were some kind of aberration and the 'real' Shane and Danny will now emerge is kinda dumb.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by MRMADD

Listen, I hope he does great. I just think it's pretty silly to expect these guys to be any better than what they've proven to be: below-average NFL QBs.

Hey MRMADD, you might not want to put too much ink on this one.

Different QBs thrive in different systems. Put Michael Vick in Spurrier's system and his head would probably pop off. But put him in a McNabb or option-style attack, and he may just do fine.

Think of Wuerffel as a giant brain who happens to be able to throw the ball OK. He's got Spurrier's system hardcoded in his giant brain, and he can make reads of a defense faster than you or I can fart.

Wuerffel can throw anything up to 20 yards as well as anyone -- in fact, arguably better than most NFL QBs, because the ball arrives on time in exactly the right place and with the right amount of touch. Probably 90% of NFL passes are 20 yards or less.

Sure, he throws some floaters on the bombs. No big deal. He can still complete them when the timing is right and the WR is open.

I'm quite happy with Wuerffel at QB in Spurrier's system. It's the OL and the lack of time for Wuerffel to make unharrassed reads and unhassled 5 and 7-step drops that worry me. If Wuerffel's rhythm gets disrupted, he's just another QB flushed from the pocket, and only at that point does his arm become more of a significant issue.

[Pete]

Not only is he the all time most efficent passer in NCAA history, he is also among the all time leaders in passing efficency in the World League. He was the leader that took his teams to the NCAA National Championship and the NFL's World Bowl.

So what does an NCAA and NFL Europe championship equate to in the NFL. Not much if anything in DW's case. Ya can't buy respect in real football, it must be earned through time and above average play.

The NCAA, and NFL Europe are old news, what has he done in the NFL.

[MRMADD]

<<I'm quite happy with Wuerffel at QB in Spurrier's system. It's the OL and the lack of time for Wuerffel to make unharrassed reads and unhassled 5 and 7-step drops that worry me. If Wuerffel's rhythm gets disrupted, he's just another QB flushed from the pocket, and only at that point does his arm become more of a significant issue.>> ASF

I agree that Wuerffel knows the offense and has excelled in it, so he should have a leg up. And I share your concern about the OL. I just have trouble, after watching Wuerffel play, setting my expectations too high.

<<Put Michael Vick in Spurrier's system and his head would probably pop off. >> ASF

Well, I'd be willing to try it! LOL

[GatorEye]

Anyone who plays this year is just a stop gap to next year's QB of the future...

Rex Grossman.

[Lowghost]

I, for one, think this offense will definitely be better than last years. Will we blow the league up, probably not, but it should be exciting to say the least. Last year we had Tony Stanks back there and went 8-8. I think SOS will learn while doing and we will see a lot of blitzing until he figures out how to make that work in our favor. Once that happens we will be very dangerous. SOS is an offensive genius, so even with our rag armed non mobile QBs it should be a lot more fun than last year.

HTTR

Lowghost

[GSF]

MrMadd, I generally agree w/ what you're saying, but we do have a couple of things in common w/ the Pats: creative coaching(main reason for the Pats success last year), and players that are hungry and confident. These 2 things are the biggest difference in Marty's Skins vs. SS's Skins.

[Orange&Blue Skins]

MrMaddening,

So you can sum up a guy based on six starts, behind zero protection in the Saints offense. Johny frickin Unitas would have been hamburger in that system. By the way, he was not the teams starting QB. He came in after the starter went out hurt, so had very few first team snaps prior to being served up the opposing defenses. Ridiculous.

It's amazing that someone can look at limited amount of statistical information from a website and know it all.

Will you ever get tired of Spurrier proving you wrong?

:gus: :doh: :shootinth :puke: :moon: :dunce: :geek: :toilet:

[The Sisko]

O&BSkins, I think you got every one of the smileys in on that post With that said, I'll make my intended point which is that all youse FL guys on DW's tip are going to have to eat a big dose of crow when HBC himself relegates him to Ramsey's backup after this season (in the end I think Matthews is going to end up being the odd man out). If ole bawlcoach says dude can't start in the NFL how are you going to spin that one ? Fact is, DW is a backup for this team only since it's coached by the HBC. For any other NFL team he's a 3rd stringer or camp fodder at best.

[NavyDave]

Humble pie goes well with crow senor madd.

When it comes to QBs its all about timing and luck.

To this day I still say if montanna and the niners were in the NFC east there wouldnt be five rings for them to talk about or him being called great.

In the Raiders system his lack of an arm for the deep ball would have had him on the bench.

In S double system its more about decision making than arm strength and if the QB has the strength its a plus.

I'm not a gator fan I love my Terps and if we arent playing them the Seminoles of FSU.

Now if you believe we are going to suck and have season tickets you can save yourself from the anguish of being called fair weather like the guy in major league 2 and fork them over

[codeorama]

Originally posted by NavyDave

Humble pie goes well with crow senor madd.

When it comes to QBs its all about timing and luck.

To this day I still say if montanna and the niners were in the NFC east there wouldnt be five rings for them to talk about or him being called great.

In the Raiders system his lack of an arm for the deep ball would have had him on the bench.

In S double system its more about decision making than arm strength and if the QB has the strength its a plus.

Right on. The system and surroundings make the player. Why was Dan Marino the ONLY rookie qb to set the league on fire and get voted to the pro bowl. Because he slipped in the draft and landed with Miami who had the 27th pick. They had just been to the Superbowl and had a really good team.

[Thinking Skins]

yawn....do we need to keep making these same arguments?

[MRMADD]

<<So you can sum up a guy based on six starts, behind zero protection in the Saints offense. Johny frickin Unitas would have been hamburger in that system. By the way, he was not the teams starting QB. He came in after the starter went out hurt, so had very few first team snaps prior to being served up the opposing defenses. Ridiculous.

It's amazing that someone can look at limited amount of statistical information from a website and know it all. >> O&B

He's been in the league six years. I'm not the one who decided he's not good enough -- several football teams did. Let's get this straight: I'm rooting for the guy! I just think you guys should temper your enthusiasm.

<<When it comes to QBs its all about timing and luck. >> NavyDave

Yeah, but Matthews has been hanging around the NFL for 10 years. Wuerffel for six. Lots of QBs get it all together late, and I'm hoping they finally have their 'timing and luck'. I suspect however, that there's another variable you've forgotten: talent.

<<Humble pie goes well with crow senor madd. >> Navy Dave

I've said it a hundred times: I'm hoping these guys prove me wrong. They have the best opportunity of their careers with Spurrier coaching. He makes bad QBs look good. But they can only prove it on the field! If and when they do, I'll be happy to listen to all your "I told ya so's". But you sound like Wuerffel's wife when you whine that he's already proven it.

<<Now if you believe we are going to suck and have season tickets you can save yourself from the anguish of being called fair weather like the guy in major league 2 and fork them over>> Navy Dave

This is just dumb. Anyone who questions Wuerffel's talent isn't a true fan? You guys felt the same way about anyone who questioned Jeff George's head or Tony Bank's talent. All I've said is that (1) none of these guys have proven they have what it takes to start in the NFL yet, (2) they're not known as strong-armed or mobile QBs, (3) they're gonna be playing behind a patchwork OL, and (4) it's a risk heading into the season with so many unknowns at the most important position on the field.

I don't understand how any of those points are even debatable. I'll say it again: I'm rooting for these guys! If anyone can make them succeed, it's Spurrier.

But I'm not climbing on the 'Wuerffel will dominate' bandwagon until he's demonstrated that he can play. Sheesh... who'd have thought that saying that the defense is gonna have to carry the team for a while would be so controversial?

[GatorMarc]

While there is no denying Wuerffel's numbers so far in the NFL... he has proven himself a leader throughout life. He never had much of an opportunity in the NFL. If you only get a small percentage of snaps at practice, then you have no opportunity - or business - being a leader of the team.

I do think things are different here. Wuerffel is back in his environment where he can lead. Players are given the opportunity to respect him and he is given the opportunity to lead.

Time will tell, but I get the feeling that your ability to draw such detailed descriptions simply by looking at career efficiency numbers will bring you a little bit of crow during the regular season.

[InstiGATOR]

Put Michael Vick in Spurrier's system and his head would probably pop off. ASF

"Well, I'd be willing to try it! LOL"

Why? Other than Mel told you so, what do you know about Vick? He is fast but what does that get you in the NFL? Hit as far as I can say. He has a big arm, but didn't Shuler, etal?

Vick played in a very few college games. I guess he might learn to be a QB in the NFL, but lots of guys have not.