Air Force Cane Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 How to Lose a War New York Post November 21, 2005 -- QUIT. It's that simple. There are plenty of more complex ways to lose a war, but none as reliable as just giving up. Increasingly, quitting looks like the new American Way of War. No matter how great your team, you can't win the game if you walk off the field at half-time. That's precisely what the Democratic Party wants America to do in Iraq. Forget the fact that we've made remarkable progress under daunting conditions: The Dems are looking to throw the game just to embarrass the Bush administration. Forget about the consequences. Disregard the immediate encouragement to the terrorists and insurgents to keep killing every American soldier they can. Ignore what would happen in Iraq — and the region — if we bail out. And don't mention how a U.S. surrender would turn al Qaeda into an Islamic superpower, the champ who knocked out Uncle Sam in the third round. Forget about our dead soldiers, whose sacrifice is nothing but a political club for Democrats to wave in front of the media. After all, one way to create the kind of disaffection in the ranks that the Dems' leaders yearn to see is to tell our troops on the battlefield that they're risking their lives for nothing, we're throwing the game. Forget that our combat veterans are re-enlisting at remarkable rates — knowing they'll have to leave their families and go back to war again. Ignore the progress on the ground, the squeezing of the insurgency's last strongholds into the badlands on the Syrian border. Blow off the successive Iraqi elections and the astonishing cooperation we've seen between age-old enemies as they struggle to form a decent government. Just set a time-table for our troops to come home and show the world that America is an unreliable ally with no stomach for a fight, no matter the stakes involved. Tell the world that deserting the South Vietnamese and fleeing from Somalia weren't anomalies — that's what Americans do. While we're at it, let's just print up recruiting posters for the terrorists, informing the youth of the Middle East that Americans are cowards who can be attacked with impunity. Whatever you do, don't talk about any possible consequences. Focus on the moment — and the next round of U.S. elections. Just make political points. After all, those dead American soldiers and Marines don't matter — they didn't go to Ivy League schools. (Besides, most would've voted Republican had they lived.) America's security? Hah! As long as the upcoming elections show Democratic gains, let the terrorist threat explode. So what if hundreds of thousands of Middle Easterners might die in a regional war? So what if violent fundamentalism gets a shot of steroids? So what if we make Abu Musab al-Zarqawi the most successful Arab of the past 500 years? For God's sake, don't talk about democracy in the Middle East. After all, democracy wasn't much fun for the Dems in 2000 or 2004. Why support it overseas, when it's been so disappointing at home? Human rights? Oh, dear. Human rights are for rich white people who live in Malibu. Unless you can use the issue to whack Republicans. Otherwise, brown, black or yellow people can die by the millions. Dean, Reid & Pelosi, LLC, won't say, "Boo!" You've got to understand, my fellow citizens: None of this matters. And you don't matter, either. All that matters is scoring political points. Let the world burn. Let the massacres run on. Let the terrorists acquire WMD. Just give the Bush administration a big black eye and we'll call that a win.The irresponsibility of the Democrats on Capitol Hill is breathtaking. (How can an honorable man such as Joe Lieberman stay in that party?) Not one of the critics of our efforts in Iraq — not one — has described his or her vision for Iraq and the Middle East in the wake of a troop withdrawal. Not one has offered any analysis of what the terrorists would gain and what they might do. Not one has shown respect for our war dead by arguing that we must put aside our partisan differences and win. There's plenty I don't like about the Bush administration. Its domestic policies disgust me, and the Bushies got plenty wrong in Iraq. But at least they'll fight. The Dems are ready to betray our troops, our allies and our country's future security for a few House seats. Surrender is never a winning strategy. Yes, we've been told lies about Iraq — by Dems and their media groupies. About conditions on the ground. About our troops. About what's at stake. About the consequences of running away from the great struggle of our time. About the continuing threat from terrorism. And about the consequences for you and your family. What do the Democrats fear? An American success in Iraq. They need us to fail, and they're going to make us fail, no matter the cost. They need to declare defeat before the 2006 mid-term elections and ensure a real debacle before 2008 — a bloody mess they'll blame on Bush, even though they made it themselves. We won't even talk about the effect quitting while we're winning in Iraq might have on the go-to-war calculations of other powers that might want to challenge us in the future. Let's just be good Democrats and prove that Osama bin Laden was right all along: Americans have no stomach for a fight. As for the 2,000-plus dead American troops about whom the lefties are so awfully concerned? As soon as we abandon Iraq, they'll forget about our casualties quicker than an amnesiac forgets how much small-change he had in his pocket. If we run away from our enemies overseas, our enemies will make their way to us. Quit Iraq, and far more than 2,000 Americans are going to die. And they won't all be conservatives. Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 ::yawn:: it isn't about quitting or winning it is about making a decision at the margins and seeing what there is to gain and lose by making a choice. For example we can choose to "win" and lose hundreds of billions of dollars and hundreds of lives, or we can "lose" and actually not lose the stuff we could have if we "won." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 How do you win a war against an enemy that isn't a Country, or an Army, or a set group of people? But rather, an idea. (A violent, evil idea). We can't take Berlin this time, and demand the surrender of Generals. Thank Goodness Ralph Peters isn't calling the shots, or we'd be in real trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Faux News resident soldier blames Dems?. How enlightening. Made all the more so because of red text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 My copied post for several threads:: This is how you win in IRAQ... This and Electricity and Water and Roads and a future. Iraqi Security Forces Reach Milestone Iraqi security forces now number more than 200,000, significant because they will be taking the lead in providing security for the Oct. 15 referendum. By Multinational Security Transition Command-Iraq BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 11, 2005 — The effort to train, equip and mentor Iraq's security forces hit a milestone recently, with the number of men and women serving in uniform stretching past 200,000. Currently the Iraqi Ministry of Interior has 106,112 personnel serving as part of security forces. The Ministry of Defense has 93,959 servicemembers in the military. Reaching this landmark is especially significant given that Iraq's military and police forces will be taking the lead in providing security for the Oct. 15 referendum, officials said. There are now more than 60,000 additional Iraqi security forces available than there were for the highly-successful January election held earlier this year. Since the effort to rebuild the country's forces began about 15 months ago, more than 115 special police and army combat battalions have been formed as well as regular police, border enforcement and highway patrol for the Ministry of Interior and motor transport regiments, Navy, Air Forces and numerous training organizations for the Ministry of Defense. The majority of those combat battalions are fighting side-by-side coalition forces and several dozen are already taking the lead in operations, officials said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 How do you win a war against an enemy that isn't a Country, or an Army, or a set group of people? But rather, an idea. (A violent, evil idea). We can't take Berlin this time, and demand the surrender of Generals.Thank Goodness Ralph Peters isn't calling the shots, or we'd be in real trouble. You win by continuing to support the new government in it's infancy. You help this government get on it's feet and demonstrate to the masses that it is not just another repressive, tryannical regime. You help give the people hope for themselves so they don't turn to radicalism, they turn away from it. Those who want to cut and run want a quick fix solution where none exists. The only way to win is to stay the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 so they don't turn to radicalism? Alittle late for that, eh? How can you assume that every form of Gov't would work for every Culture? You can hold hands all you want, but eventually it changes from helping them get on their feet, to us running their country from behind the scenes and fighting roadside bombs forever. using terms like "Cut and Run" and "Stay the Course" look great on Bumper Stickers. Let me know how it works in the real world. We're cutting and running on our own people living on the streets in the United States. We're staying the course to be dependent on Oil, and not putting our full resources in finding the next power source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 You win by killing as many of them as you can....whereever they hide in Iraq....including Mosques and other places those islamofacists like to hide when the going gets tough. You win by telling the generals in charge that they can use any means necessary to crush the insurgency. What you DON'T do is cowtoe to those who never like war or the military from the get go who cry "no fair" everytime we start kicking some serious a$$ over there and a few civilians get in the way. In war...civilians get killed.... look back in history....it happens. Furthermore, we tell the Iraqis that it's time for them to stand up and fight for their own freedom. Not the Iraq security forces being stood up to fight, but the civilians who continue to look the other way while insurgents and foreigners hide in their midst and kill innocent Iraqis by the hundends. STAND UP!!!! Say NO MORE!!! Start to tell the coalition forces where they are... where they are hiding..... and allow the forces to go in and crush them. Finally, get the native forces ready to defend themselves...... as quickly as possible... and then get the hell out of the cities and into areas in the desert where defenses can be constructed and "quick-reaction" forces can provide support for the local security forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 This is why the goal thread is so interesting and why it shows that so many may be off the track. The purpose of Iraq was, I believe, to be a step in the war against terrorism. It is not the sum and the goal. Iraq is a step. If we accomplish a utopian democrasy in Iraq we didn't win. We toppled Sadam. Mission wasn't accomplished. We could control all the oil. Iraqi guns could suddenly sprout bloom and IED's could shower manna and the war against terror would still be ongoing. Winning or losing the war in Iraq may be similiar to the capture of a strategic hill on a battlefield. The taking of that hill will give us an advantage, but whether to take that hill and after taking it deciding how much resource you want to put into holding it is an entirely different issue. Regardless, the taking of that hill won't win the war. Losing that hill won't cost you the war. That is, if what we truly are worried about is terrorism and not saving face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwpanic Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 how to lose a war: go in undermanned,underprepared, and with no real startegy. throw in a moronic leader and a handful of lies, let sit for about 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 If the goal of this war was to get rid of the WMD's in Iraq: We haven't found any. If the goal of this war was to give Iraq it's freedom: Not worth all the American soldiers' lives. If the goal of this war was to get a military foothold in the Middle East: Stupid, there is no country there strong enough to stop us from invading anyway. If the goal of this war was to eliminate terrorists: WAY too expensive of a method to do that. Plus, we will never come close to eliminating them anyway. If the goal of this war was oil: Shame on President Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 How to lose a war? Here are a few ideas: - Start one under false pretenses - Lie to the people about every single thing associated with the reasons for starting it in the first place - Under-equip the troops. - Have no real plan for the end game. - Use the tried & true political tactic (see: Nazi Germany) of calling pundits of the war anti-patriotic, and accuse them of siding with the enemy, the end result of which ensures continued fighting until, ultimately, so may have died that pullout is inevitable. The truth is, George Bush and his cohorts lost this war a long time ago, before the first bomb was dropped. It should surprise no one that America's true patriots - those people who don't view American lives cheaply, as the current presidential administration clearly does - are calling for withdrawal before more thousands of American lives are lost, in the effort of defending nothing. The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory. - Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The most tragic thing about this war is it's been promoted by the same generation that wore flowers, and burned draft cards in protest of the Vietnam war. We should now better. America's menatlity concerning people of different culture is well documented. We have fought indigenous people for ever. The ones that don't call america home, have kicked our butts. Iraq is acient babylon. They are a proud people. Until we appreciate that we will keep loosing, and loose these types of conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted November 21, 2005 Author Share Posted November 21, 2005 Wow, some of your military analysis is truly brilliant. You must have a ton of practice cutting and pasting from Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground... I love how you libs are always crying about "human rights abuses"- and yet you want to consign literally tens of thousands of Iraqi democrats to a horrible death by running away and leaving them to the mercy of Al-Queda... well not actually YOU running away, since none of you are fighting to begin with. It is amazing that the men and women ACTUALLY SERVING and dying want to finish the fight and win... while the anti-military loons want to stab our military in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Wow, some of your military analysis is truly brilliant. You must have a ton of practice cutting and pasting from Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground...I love how you libs are always crying about "human rights abuses"- and yet you want to consign literally tens of thousands of Iraqi democrats to a horrible death by running away and leaving them to the mercy of Al-Queda... well not actually YOU running away, since none of you are fighting to begin with. It is amazing that the men and women ACTUALLY SERVING and dying want to finish the fight and win... while the anti-military loons want to stab our military in the back. A sure sign that a poster is not to be taken seriously? Their post contains "you libs" in it. Thanks for making my point with your "leaving them to the mercy of Al-Queda" and "none of you are fighting to begin with" lines. That’s exactly the kind of rhetoric that I expect – if you are as wrong as you could possible be, attack people by questioning their patriotism. What, am I now fighting along side the terrorists? :doh: And you’re damn right I’m not fighting this war. It’s a war for profit, and I have better things to do with my time. You've made it clear that you are not looking at what is actually happening, and you are just "cutting and pasting" knee-jerk right wing propaganda. Good stuff. (I had never heard of 'Daily Kos' before, thanks for pointing it out.) Just remember this. The Bush administration started a war that didn't need starting, and their complete lack of forethought has made this mess. You can say "you libs" all you want - it doesn't change the fact that Iraq is way screwed up and the reason it's screwed up is that Bush, Rumsfeld & Co. lacked a clear plan. That's never going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUNSTONE Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Great first post! Often times these political debates are not about the truth, but about "damn if you do, damn if you don't". I am proud of our president, and the job he is doing! I think he is one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever seen. :notworthy :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 did Football Henry get a new screenname? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Great first post! Often times these political debates are not about the truth, but about "damn if you do, damn if you don't". I am proud of our president, and the job he is doing! I think he is one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever seen. :notworthy :applause: Wow. He is so undeniably the most incompetent president since Warren Harding - the job is beyond him. Seriously, one of the worst three presidents in history. I think even most conservatives are coming to that realization. Calling George Bush "one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever seen" is like calling "Battlefield Earth" one of the greatest films in cinematic history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 If that's from another website, it needs a link. Please update your post accordingly Air Force Cane. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 How do you win a war against an enemy that isn't a Country, or an Army, or a set group of people? But rather, an idea. (A violent, evil idea). We can't take Berlin this time, and demand the surrender of Generals.Thank Goodness Ralph Peters isn't calling the shots, or we'd be in real trouble. How do you win against a idea? By exposing it as based on lies. One way this can be accomplished is by proving the US is not there for oil or simply to punish Saddam and proving our commitment to the principles we as a nation strive for...Liberty,Equality and the love of Freedom. This is war of ideas and one that can be won,but only through sacrifice. Unfortunately most Americans have no stomach for it...Repub or Dem Perhaps they terrorists are correct :whoknows: However I know a lot of young men and women willing to risk all for a IDEA, so maybe not :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Great first post! Often times these political debates are not about the truth, but about "damn if you do, damn if you don't". I am proud of our president, and the job he is doing! I think he is one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever seen. :notworthy :applause: I think it great we're honored to have an oil company CEO posting on ES. I'd guess not many other billionaires have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Wow. He is so undeniably the most incompetent president since Warren Harding - the job is beyond him. Seriously, one of the worst three presidents in history. I think even most conservatives are coming to that realization.Calling George Bush "one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever seen" is like calling "Battlefield Earth" one of the greatest films in cinematic history. President Bush has been busy putting out the fires from the last presidency. The problems Bush has had to deal with makes me shiver when I think it COULD have been Al Gore running the show. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 President Bush has been busy putting out the fires from the last presidency. The problems Bush has had to deal with makes me shiver when I think it COULD have been Al Gore running the show. :doh: Which fires are you talking about? You mean that budget surplus that Bush turned into a $500 billion deficit? Or maybe the employment fire of having too many people with good paying jobs? Thank goodness Bush took care of that. But what was really screwed up was that the wealthiest people in America didn't get six figure tax cuts! Now they do! We can all sit back an relax now that voodoo economics is back in sway, because it worked so well last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Which fires are you talking about? You mean that budget surplus that Bush turned into a $500 billion deficit? Or maybe the employment fire of having too many people with good paying jobs? Thank goodness Bush took care of that. But what was really screwed up was that the wealthiest people in America didn't get six figure tax cuts! Now they do! We can all sit back an relax now that voodoo economics is back in sway, because it worked so well last time. Revisionist history working well for you I see....... Cheers!!! How about we all recognize that the things that have happened over the past six years we would not wish on our worst enemy... . . . .... .. oh, maybe some got their wish??....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 yeah, what fires is he putting out? I'd like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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