How to Lose A War: Quit...

[E-Dog Night]

Revisionist history working well for you I see....... Cheers!!!

How about we all recognize that the things that have happened over the past six years we would not wish on our worst enemy...

.

.

.

....

..

oh, maybe some got their wish??.......

Revisionist history? Taken straight from the Limbaugh/Coulter conservoganda of the day. You want revisionist history? Try the campaign to make Joe McCarthy look like Roosevelt. Guess who’s behind that?

And "all the things" that have happened over the past six years are that we were attacked by terrorists and 3,000 people died. It was horrible, to be sure. As a resident of DC I remember the day well and I saluted the correct campaign in Afghanistan. Other than that, it hasn’t been to bad, when viewed on the scale of massive tragedies. The only other thing that’s been bad is another 2,000 Americans have died and we have the worst deficit in the nation’s history. Both were not only completely avoidable, they are a direct result of utter incompetence from the Bush administration, and although it’s happened, Bush should get no sympathy for creating these messes.

Iraq, which had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that attack, has had countless tens of thousands die at our hands.

Just let that sink in for a second.

Iraq did not attack us and was not involved in terrorism. Yet we attacked them, and have killed so many of their citizens (who we were supposedly trying to save) that we can’t count them all. The number may be higher than 100,000, and it is at least several tens of thousands. All this to a country that was not involved in 9/11 in any way, shape, or form.

[Air Force Cane]

"Other than that, (9/11!!)it hasn’t been to bad, when viewed on the scale of massive tragedies."

that pretty much sums up the leftist position. that September 11, when THREE THOUSAND men and women were murdered was "not that bad"...

maybe you want to come over to the Pentagon and say that to the families of those who had a loved one incinerated?

what a !@#$#@....

[chomerics]

How to lose a war? Here are a few ideas:

- Start one under false pretenses

- Lie to the people about every single thing associated with the reasons for starting it in the first place

- Under-equip the troops.

- Have no real plan for the end game.

- Use the tried & true political tactic (see: Nazi Germany) of calling pundits of the war anti-patriotic, and accuse them of siding with the enemy, the end result of which ensures continued fighting until, ultimately, so may have died that pullout is inevitable.

The truth is, George Bush and his cohorts lost this war a long time ago, before the first bomb was dropped. It should surprise no one that America's true patriots - those people who don't view American lives cheaply, as the current presidential administration clearly does - are calling for withdrawal before more thousands of American lives are lost, in the effort of defending nothing.

The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory. - Sun Tzu

Great Post, spot on . . . Especially the Sun Tzu quote!

[chomerics]

President Bush has been busy putting out the fires from the last presidency. The problems Bush has had to deal with makes me shiver when I think it COULD have been Al Gore running the show. :doh:

:insane: Please please tell me how Al Gore could have been any worse on a single thing then Bush :doh:

[E-Dog Night]

"Other than that, (9/11!!)it hasn’t been to bad, when viewed on the scale of massive tragedies."

that pretty much sums up the leftist position. that September 11, when THREE THOUSAND men and women were murdered was "not that bad"...

maybe you want to come over to the Pentagon and say that to the families of those who had a loved one incinerated?

what a !@#$#@....

Oh for the love of Pete!!!!!!!

If you bothered to ACTUALLY READ AND COMPREHEND THE POST, you'll see that I was referring to things OTHER THAN 9/11 as being not that bad, NOT 9/11 ITSELF!!!!!! I would make this bigger if I thought it would help get it through to you.

It was horrible

That's actually what I said about 9/11. Not what you said.

You inferred what you wanted to, and twisted my words around. Just another reason not to take a damn thing you say seriously. You put words in my mouth, you got everything I said completely wrong, then you pull this sanctimonious crap with me. Please.

[chomerics]

Iraq did not attack us and was not involved in terrorism. Yet we attacked them, and have killed so many of their citizens (who we were supposedly trying to save) that we can’t count them all. The number may be higher than 100,000, and it is at least several tens of thousands. All this to a country that was not involved in 9/11 in any way, shape, or form.

But Saddam had WMDs and he was going to give them to Bin Laden, we were going to get nuked and our next attack was going to be a mushroom cloud. . .remember? He was an outlaw leader of an outlaw regime who posed such an immediate threat, the only way we could have saved our country was invading Iraq :doh:

[portisizzle]

yeah, what fires is he putting out? I'd like to know.

wow. If I told you, would you listen?? :doh:

[portisizzle]

:insane: Please please tell me how Al Gore could have been any worse on a single thing then Bush :doh:

:laugh: :laugh: If I told YOU would you listen???

[portisizzle]

But Saddam had WMDs and he was going to give them to Bin Laden, we were going to get nuked and our next attack was going to be a mushroom cloud. . .remember? He was an outlaw leader of an outlaw regime who posed such an immediate threat, the only way we could have saved our country was invading Iraq :doh:

A quote of mine from another thread...

I have three children who depend on the fact that America win the war on terrorism. Our country must be able to defeat any country that would have the present or future ability to kill millions of people in our own country. We clearly acted in a preemptive manner against a country known to terrorise their own people and a known enemy of America. Terrorists are the only "group" of people who do not have the conscience of country. The rules they play by are not unlike the cougar in the jungle. Survival of the fittest. America must be the cougar, not the terrorists.

For me, the goal in Iraq has already been accomplished. We have demonstrated our country's ability to devestate what was once considered a formidable force in the middle east. We have also positioned ourselves in a way that keep us VERY near Iran and Syria. While you may disagree with the manner in which we arrived in Iraq, you can not ignor the political leverage we wield in that part of the world right now. Any action that would be traced back to a middle east country would result in a swift and determined response.

Like it or not, we are in our generations "cold war". I love my country and ultimately defend our countrymen, our warriors, and our commander in chief. Politics aside for a minute. This country is not about who is in charge. It is about the good people of this country who live in freedom unlike any organized civilization in history. We may not be perfect, and our leaders may not be perfect.

For once I would just like people in this country to collectively come to an understanding of just how good we have it here. I am proud of my country and the missions that we have endeavored. The post war Iraq debate will continue, just like our post war involvement in Germany. Only history will judge our position in Iraq.

God Bless America.

[@DCGoldPants]

wow. If I told you, would you listen?? :doh:

yes, I will listen. and when you use that little cartoon face, its insulting.

please list them.

[WallyVon]

This conflict is reaching a head soon.

Either this country will continue moving to the right, declaring Christianity our state sponsored religion, delaring war our state sponsored activity, re-institution discrimination at all levels etc. etc. In this case I will be moving to Canada.

Or this country will come to its senses, remove our heads out of our collective asses, and attempt to look at things through the eyes of the rest of the world for a change.

One or the other will happen. I have my Canadian plane tickets.

[portisizzle]

I love listening to everyone here try to spit liberal propaganda. I would guess not a soul on this thread has the pedigree to actually carry opinions about international diplomacy. The very BEST you can do is suck up what you are told and try your best to sound professional.

What this country needs right now are a few more Americans and few less crack journalists.

Here on this thread we have, I assume, a past or present member of our military. Every person who posts this liberal crap, and would decry our military occupation of Iraq, owes your freedom to this person and our military. Why not take a second and thank a person who risked his or her life. When you are on the street and see a person in the military thank them.

This liberal act is wearing DAMN THIN.

We are Americans, try acting like it.

[WallyVon]

I love listening to everyone here try to spit liberal propaganda. I would guess not a soul on this thread has the pedigree to actually carry opinions about international diplomacy. The very BEST you can do is suck up what you are told and try your best to sound professional.

What this country needs right now are a few more Americans and few less crack journalists.

Here on this thread we have, I assume, a past or present member of our military. Every person who posts this liberal crap, and would decry our military occupation of Iraq, owes your freedom to this person and our military. Why not take a second and thank a person who risked his or her life. When you are on the street and see a person in the military thank them.

This liberal act is wearing DAMN THIN.

We are Americans, try acting like it.

I don't recall the military defending me. Of course, if they were I'd be appreciative, but they're not. So, why should I thank them again??

[portisizzle]

This conflict is reaching a head soon.

Either this country will continue moving to the right, declaring Christianity our state sponsored religion, delaring war our state sponsored activity, re-institution discrimination at all levels etc. etc. In this case I will be moving to Canada.

Or this country will come to its senses, remove our heads out of our collective asses, and attempt to look at things through the eyes of the rest of the world for a change.

One or the other will happen. I have my Canadian plane tickets.

Or this country will move to the left and do what Clinton did for eight years.

Appease, ignor, and tear down the military and intelligence community. You do not need to move to Canada, if indeed you are OK acting like France whenever our country is called to task. Because if the liberals run the show, Canada (or at least its socialist politics) will have come to roost in America. You may be comfortable with this. But I would suggest a review of the national political election map from the past two presidential elections.

[iheartskins]

I love listening to everyone here try to spit liberal propaganda. I would guess not a soul on this thread has the pedigree to actually carry opinions about international diplomacy. The very BEST you can do is suck up what you are told and try your best to sound professional.

What this country needs right now are a few more Americans and few less crack journalists.

Here on this thread we have, I assume, a past or present member of our military. Every person who posts this liberal crap, and would decry our military occupation of Iraq, owes your freedom to this person and our military. Why not take a second and thank a person who risked his or her life. When you are on the street and see a person in the military thank them.

This liberal act is wearing DAMN THIN.

We are Americans, try acting like it.

I'm getting just as tired of reading posts where people don't debate others' opinions and instead only going after them for being :"liberals."

Yes, we all know that chomerics is a liberal. Ok, now debate what he has to say.

And saying that people that dissent from our occupation in Iraq don't feel grateful to the military is disengenuous Portisizzle. And you know that.

Diversity of opinion and mutual respect for other perspectives is what this Board is about. It's not about making meritless accusations that do nothing other than rile up the opposition.

If you don't agree with the libs or the conservatives, say so. But enough of this crap that essentially states if you don't agree with the occupation that you're anti-American and don't care about the troops. It just serves no purpose other than taking away from the actual debate at hand.

I love this Country. I feel great gratitude for the Freedoms that are afforded to me. I'm greatful that people have made sacrifices on my behalf. That doesn't mean I have to agree with every directive made by government. Further, it doesn't mean that if I do disagree that I'm some kind of commie and hate the troops.

We're smarter than this; now let's act like it.

Please, try and take the high road.

[portisizzle]

I don't recall the military defending me. Of course, if they were I'd be appreciative, but they're not. So, why should I thank them again??

My guess is that you would not have posted that piss poor comment two days after 9/11. Sounds like either you are a child OR you have a very short memory.

In either event, I applaud you. You have just said what most liberals( and many liberals on this this site) THINK but would never say out loud.

:applause:

[WallyVon]

Or this country will move to the left and do what Clinton did for eight years.

Appease, ignor, and tear down the military and intelligence community. You do not need to move to Canada, if indeed you are OK acting like France whenever our country is called to task. Because if the liberals run the show, Canada (or at least its socialist politics) will have come to roost in America. You may be comfortable with this. But I would suggest a review of the national political election map from the past two presidential elections.

Yes, I would be comfortable with a more Canadian-esque government. At least then I could know that war will only be used as a last resort, and definitely not used as a political tool.

This country is rapidly becoming filled with like-minded conservative zombies. That is your choice if you wish to participate in group-think like that. I just won't be here anymore.

[E-Dog Night]

I love listening to everyone here try to spit liberal propaganda. I would guess not a soul on this thread has the pedigree to actually carry opinions about international diplomacy. The very BEST you can do is suck up what you are told and try your best to sound professional.

What this country needs right now are a few more Americans and few less crack journalists.

Here on this thread we have, I assume, a past or present member of our military. Every person who posts this liberal crap, and would decry our military occupation of Iraq, owes your freedom to this person and our military. Why not take a second and thank a person who risked his or her life. When you are on the street and see a person in the military thank them.

This liberal act is wearing DAMN THIN.

We are Americans, try acting like it.

Talk about wearing thin. This regurgitation of "freedom isn't free" and other clichés like it is some tired, tired stuff.

Is this your attempt to list the fires that Bush is putting out? Sorry, I don't see any list, predictably. Just another Limbaugh-esque rant.

And you might want to think twice about the propaganda line. It's the republicans, particularly the Bush White House, who are engaged in the proliferation of massive amounts of propaganda to sway opinions. Very little of it is even close to being true. They are lying through their teeth, day after day. Shame on you for so blindly buying into this jingoistic dribble – you should not be so easy to influence. It's exactly what the extreme right wing faction counts on and is very grateful for - scaring people onto their side of the street by calling them un-American.

We are the Americans, pal. That's why we don't want to see them killed in Bush's war. I'd rather they remain my neighbors, friends and relatives, than dying hollow deaths in a liar's war, far form the home God intended for them.

[WallyVon]

My guess is that you would not have posted that piss poor comment two days after 9/11. Sounds like either you are a child OR you have a very short memory.

In either event, I applaud you. You have just said what most liberals( and many liberals on this this site) THINK but would never say out loud.

:applause:

The military didn't defend me from 9/11. It happened.

Of course, I'm being sensationalist to make a point. I'm sure on some level, there are some members of the military defending my safety. But those people are certainly not in Iraq or in the White House.

[@DCGoldPants]

I'm getting just as tired of reading not debating people's opinions and only going after them for being liberals.

Yes, we all know that chomerics is a liberal. Ok, now debate what he has to say.

And saying that people that dissent from our occupation in Iraq don't feel grateful to the military is disengenuous Portisizzle. And you know that.

Diversity of opinion and mutual respect for other perspectives is what this Board is about. It's not about making meritless accusations that do nothing other than rile up the opposition.

If you don't agree, say so. But enough of this crap that essentially states if you don't agree with the occupation that you're anti-American and don't care about the troops. It just serves no purpose other than taking away from the actual debate at hand.

I love this Country. I feel great gratitude for the Freedoms that are afforded to me. I'm greatful that people have made sacrifices on my behalf. That doesn't mean I have to agree with every directive made by government and if I do disagree that I'm some kind of commie.

We're smarter than this.

Please, try and take the high road.

and please answer my question about the fires. I'm still waiting and listening.

[iheartskins]

and please answer my question about the fires. I'm still waiting and listening.

What fires?

Is that some reference to Billy Joel?

I'm on cold medication so I'd appreciate a little deference.

[@DCGoldPants]

No, that was just adding on to your statement.

If you look back at the 1st page. I asked Mr. Sizzle to list something, and his response was asking if I'd listen.

So, I said "yes"

and he hasn't listed anything.

So, I'm just waiting because I'd hate to think he was just blowing smoke and didn't have a legit response.

[portisizzle]

Iheart,

I suppose that your comments are derived from some sense that I am not debating the topic.

The key element of any Democratic response to the criticism of our occupation of Iraq is

1) We support the troops.

2) We do not support the troops commander in chief.

In my world, and in the world of most Americans who take the high road on these topics, it is important to call these type of individuals to task. As Americans we have the right to dissent. However, this right to dissent MUST be balanced by an understanding of what make America what it is. We as Americans will have plenty of time to debate the events in Iraq. But that debate MUST be made with the understanding that we support our country and their troops. WITHOUT CONDITION.

FAR too many politicians and their like minded constituents do not understand the ramifications of what they speak. Right NOW, our sons and daughters are fighting a war THEY believe in. They believe in it because THEY were sent there by OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

I know too many military veterans and current active military personnel who listen to garbage telling us they speak without understanding the effect of what they are saying.

I will ramble no further. Other than to say I have been a member of this board for a long while and rarely do I incite individuals without a response. I am calling some to task here. It is for them to have a reasoned response to my position.

[Joe Sick]

What fires?

Is that some reference to Billy Joel?

I'm on cold medication so I'd appreciate a little deference.

[WallyVon]

Iheart,

I suppose that your comments are derived from some sense that I am not debating the topic.

The key element of any Democratic response to the criticism of our occupation of Iraq is

1) We support the troops.

2) We do not support the troops commander in chief.

In my world, and in the world of most Americans who take the high road on these topics, it is important to call these type of individuals to task. As Americans we have the right to dissent. However, this right to dissent MUST be balanced by an understanding of what make America what it is. We as Americans will have plenty of time to debate the events in Iraq. But that debate MUST be made with the understanding that we support our country and their troops. WITHOUT CONDITION.

FAR too many politicians and their like minded constituents do not understand the ramifications of what they speak. Right NOW, our sons and daughters are fighting a war THEY believe in. They believe in it because THEY were sent their by OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

I know too many military veterans and current active military personnel who listen to garbage without understanding the effect of what they are saying.

I will ramble no further. Other than to say I have been a member of this board for a long while and rarely do I incite individuals without a response. I am call some to task here. It is for them to have a reasoned response to my position.

Don't limit your criticism to Democrats them.

Read what some Republicans said and wrote about Bill Clinton during the Kosovo conflict.

Make sure to criticise your Republican brethren too.