jrocrb96 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Sometimes it's better to go down then to struggle for a few inches. Defenses are taught to swipe at the ball & that's what got them the turnovers. In saying that, there is no way that I thought the Raiders would beat the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 *SOMETIMES* its better to go down....thats real easy to say. A good running back grinds out tough yards after contact, thats the FIRST sign of a good running back, its tough to bring them down. Portis every now and then has a bad game with fumbles, it happens. I cant believe a thread like this exists. The guy went 22 for 92, was our best source of offense all day (much like he was last week), just had a couple mishaps. The HORRENDOUS play of the offensive line didnt help either, nor did Brunells lack of touch. It was a TEAM loss, stop putting the blame on a guy who has bent over backwards for this organization thus far in changing his style, hitting the weightroom hard in the offseason, and generally working hard to become a more well rounded football player for this teams needs. He dropped the ball a couple times tryuing to get extra yards. Big deal, it happens. For every first down created SOLELY by Clinton Portis' grinding out extra yards, Ill take a few fumbles a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I've been saying since last year that Portis is going to age in dog years in this offense. Big, physical backs who are not named Jerome Bettis usually flame out around age 27 or 28. (Look at Jamal Lewis this year). Portis is NOT a big, physical back but is being used like one. Granted, he is an athletic marvel so maybe he can stand up under this punishment. But, he's run into a heck of a lot of piles over the last two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 i don't understand why portis has to learn to fit our scheme and not the other way around. i would understand if portis was a rookie, but the guy has 2 years of tape that shows what he does best. this is just the craziest thing i ever heard...bugel and/or byner are idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Portis is partially to blame for this loss, turnovers will cost games. Defense is also a reason for this loss, giving up big plays that never would have happened last year. You could also argue playcalling is a factor for the loss as well. It continues to amaze me that people on here want to point fingers at one source for the loss when in reality it was a bunch of things. Anyway, it was good to see Portis run to the outside more yesterday instead of straight up the middle. I agree with the first poster, he's not a plowhorse, although he's shown that he can carry the load. I think he runs best to the outside, off the ends of the line where he can get a lot of speed going and use his moves to create. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peachhaze Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Personally, I like Portis. But Joe flubbed it and has slowly resorting back to his ways. Portis is most valuable swinging wide or going "against the grain," Ala Tiki Barber. He is as quick as Tiki and can play receiver like Tiki. So, why are we plowing him up the middle. Shoot, anyone would get hurt if they did that 20 times a game for 2 yard each run and was one of the smallest guys on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Im surprised Betts doesnt get more carries. I personally think he is pretty good. Betts is really good but he runs too hard for his own good. How can gibbs use him more when everytime he gets a chance he gets injured:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dccat Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Im surprised Betts doesnt get more carries. I personally think he is pretty good. Ladell's okay ,but he's not a solider he's missed two games being nicked up.Even though Clinton is smaller his heart is Bigger that's why he does what he is asked and doesn't complain.And he's not a plowhorse He's a homerun hitter, but we dont know how to use him that way , because Our Line Sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I have heard it said that Clinton Portis is a RACEHORSE....NOT a plowhorse.... He is neither. He is a jackass. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEFENSEGURU Posted November 21, 2005 Author Share Posted November 21, 2005 The Redskins fans are as unfocused as the team. This thread is about Portis, and HOW he is being used. Somehow you have lost the point and become unfocused. This thread is talking about Portis being a jackass, Portis dressing up in costumes, about the defense, and about everything except what this thread is about. Most of you are not astute enough to pick up on this, but this thread clearly cuts to the heart of the matter. The guy who said that Portis is rushing for a better average then Riggins did...well that guy REALLY has lost focus. Of course Portis rushes for a greater average...because he is a RACEHORSE...not a Plowhorse. Thats is the whole point. Riggins was built for this kind of task and he rarely got injured and he got yards after the the first hit. Portis is FASTER, wants to hit the hole quickly, but must wait for his blocking. Unfortunately, while you wait for your blocking, you are also waiting for defensive guys to get to you also. Go back and read the opening post to this thread. Portis is NOT a plowhorse. He is a racehorse. and it has nothing to do with him dressing up or the lack of passrush, or the fact that we need a new QB. If Gibbs continues to use Portis like this, Clinton will be out of the NFL after 6 years. The abuse will destroy his career. He carried 22 times yesterday. If he hadn't fumbled or the Skins had scored and had the lead, he would have had 25 or 26 carries. Gibbs is OVERUSING him because of the scheme. Lose the plow into the lline left and plow into the line right plays. Let Clinton lose those 20 pounds and split him out, pitch it to him right, pitch it to him left, pass more often and then run a draw play, use Clinton on quick screens. BUT DON'T PLOW HIM INTO THE LINE EVERYTIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnFoRcEr_uPu Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I have heard it said that Clinton Portis is a RACEHORSE....NOT a plowhorse.Why has Joe Gibbs taken a guy who was 200 pounds and would carry the ball 17 times a game for 110 yards...and turned him into PLOWHORSE who had to gain weight in order to PLOW into the line left...and PLOW into the line right. Clinton Portis is NOT a plowhorse. He cannot take the punishment of plowing into the line. THATS why he got injured last year and missed the last 2 games. THATS why he fumbles at a critical moment because he cannot take the punishment of PLOWING into the line over and over. He's a real trooper but he CANNOT do it. If Gibbs wanted a plowhorse, he should have drafted Greg Jones last year because thats the kind of guy we need for GIBBS offense. He is wasting Clinton Portis and Portis' career is going to be a short one. I agree totally, and I've been saying it all season long. Clinton does exceptionally well on the outside, as he has shown in the last 2 games with more than a handful of 15+ yard runs. I was very upset however when they continued to run Portis without a rest for the first half. I knew he would get tired eventually, and that when the 2 fumles ocurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnFoRcEr_uPu Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 To add to this discussion again: I just had a brief...debacle if you will, with a guy here at work about Portis. He said that they needed to run him a lot more in the 2nd half to be effective. I agreed with him, but with a stipulation. Portis CAN run 25 times in a game easily, we all know that. BUT, if they continue to plow him into the line like they are, he will not be as effective, nor will he be able to run as much. With Betts out, you can't expect Portis to do it ALL by himself. The guy already does everything else from taking short passes to blocking like a linebacker. My truthful analysis about this Redskins team, is that they have the capabiliy to be 8-2 right now. That's not even a question in my mind. But until they figure out how to utilize their players better, start taking more risks and stop being so conservative, they will not win these close games, that shouldn't even be close to begin with. I think that is what hurts the most, they have so much potential, but keep wasting it game after game. If they would just ask the players(which at this point, they need anything that will help), "What do YOU guys want to do?", they will be much more effective. I feel that Gibbs(could just be our OC and not Gibbs however) and GW have been so involved in the specifics, and trying to get their systematic game plans down, that they have forgotten the big picture. Sure, great they could have a systematic game plan. Great they can have everyone where they need to be. But let me ask you something. If you spend ALL of your time going over that stuff, then when things DO go wrong, what do you do? They're so afraid to let the players just do their own things, and use their own talents, that they stick to their same game plan EVERY week. Only 1 time have I seen them come out at half time and change things up(againt Tampa). That obviously worked, and so did the new stuff against Philly. So why change it and go back to our losing ways? I apologize for taking this much farther than just the issue of Portis, I just felt as though, in order to completely understand the reasons behind WHY Portis isn't being as effective as he should be, that I needed to explain the behind the scenes issues that act as a catalyst for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Some of you don't get it you can't run a sweep every play LMAO This is football more than half his yards came in Denver running between the tackles. The problem is the pulling and slow developing plays and poor run blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Portis is a good back and he is what he is. He's a guy who prefers the zone blocking and pick his own hole. Size has nothing to do with him being a north south plow horse type of runner. L. Tomlinson isn't big but he can run outside as well as between the tackles. He (Tomlinson) can run in any system but Portis isn't a physical type back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnFoRcEr_uPu Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I think I mis-explained what I was trying to get at. YES Portis can run between the tackles, but only if there is a gap. He can't just break through a LB and keep on trucking is what I meant. You are right though, our O-line needs to do a better job. I was personally very disappointed in Jansen against Oakland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisc0015 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 The past two weeks Portis has been running outside the tackles more and more. I think our running game these past two weeks has been very good, I think Gibbs is now realizing how to utilize Portis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvo14 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I don't know if our O-line is built for zone blocking or stretch plays. Denver's O-line is relatively small but they are quick. Our O-Line is huge and built for power blocking, not finesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da#1skinsfan Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 I think I mis-explained what I was trying to get at. YES Portis can run between the tackles, but only if there is a gap. He can't just break through a LB and keep on trucking is what I meant. You are right though, our O-line needs to do a better job. I was personally very disappointed in Jansen against Oakland. OF COURSE he can break through an LB and keep on trucking. Hes shown it this year week in and week out. I dont know what games you guys are watching here. CP is effective on the outside, thats without question, but as someone else mentioned, you cant go outside every play. He has stayed relatively healthy, how can you sit back and say he will be done in 6 years...he hasnt shown any signs of being prone to injury as a Redskin (thank god), and hes carried the ball WAY more than anyone ever thought he would be able to. CP has the ability to break off the big run, he has the strong legs to push the pile, and has the quickness to evade defenders and force missed tackles or arm tackles. He is the perfect back IMO. ESPECIALLY with an oline that isnt always playing together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 Portis is a slasher type runner, NOT a bull your way through type. What Joe Gibb's has shown me is that he wants to replicate his old teams, and he is taking guy's that do not have those abilities and trying to make it work. Portis is one example. JG needs to accommodate to clinton's style or Clinton is going to get injured and continue to fumble and stumble out of blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNeverDie Posted November 21, 2005 Share Posted November 21, 2005 OMG...so now after Clinton is trying hard each offseason to put on weight just to win for the Redskins we have people doubting him? He comes out every game and plays hard, he blocks, he wants to win. Yes he had a bad game, but he has played like a top 10 RB for us. I have a feeling next year a lot of people will wind up eating their words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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