SkinsNut73 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Had this posted in the Pierce knew what we were doing thread, where a couple of Extremers mentioned this should be in a thread by itself...so here you are... http://www.nj.com/giants/ledger/ind...2850.xml&coll=1 Pierce does in ex-teammates Monday, October 31, 2005 BY KEVIN MANAHAN Star-Ledger Staff The Redskins were sure. So sure. When the Giants lined up for the game's first play from scrimmage, with tight end Jeremy Shockey hip-to-hip with right tackle Kareem McKenzie, 11 guys in red helmets on the other side of the line started grinning behind their facemasks. They knew what was coming next: Running back Tiki Barber, the ball cradled in his right arm, would be running to that strong side behind fullback Jim Finn. No doubt about it. They had seen this dozens of times on the films. It was one of the Giants' favorite plays. Oh, those Giants. So predictable. As quarterback Eli Manning went through his snap count and the Giants Stadium crowd cheered, strong safety Ryan Clark, about 10 yards deep, started creeping toward the line of scrimmage, planning to take an aggressive angle and cut off Barber. When the ball was snapped, the Redskins defense instinctively moved to clog the right side. One problem: Barber ran left, sliced through a gaping hole, and took off down the left sideline for 57 yards. By the time the game was over, and the Giants had won 36-0, Barber had rushed 24 times for a career-high 206 yards and a touchdown. In the second quarter, he broke off a 59-yard run to go with that 57-yarder. But wait a second. This was a defense that last season held Barber to 80 yards on 33 carries -- a 2.4-yard average -- and no touchdowns in two games. His longest run against the Redskins in 2004 had been 11 yards. What the heck happened? "Inside information," Barber said. "It's a great thing to have." You thought free agency paid off for the Giants with big-play wide receiver Plaxico Burress? Well, yesterday, it paid a huge dividend with linebacker Antonio Pierce, who jumped to the Giants in the off-season when the Redskins couldn't find a way to re-sign him. This is what Pierce told the Giants offense on the practice field one day last week: "Look, their defense will sell out to stop three, four, maybe five of your favorite plays. They will look at your tendencies, figure out what you like to do best and then do everything they can to stop those things." Barber raised an eyebrow on that shaven forehead. So did some of the coaches. The game plan, then, would be simple: The Giants would line up the way they always have, but do the unexpected. "We did some self-scouting, figured out what they would be looking for, and then we did something completely different," Barber said. "We went against our tendencies from the start, and you could tell we caught them by surprise." Pierce, however, was able to stick it to his former team on both sides of the ball. While his tip helped the offense rush for 262 yards, his play helped the defense pitch a shutout. Pierce had 11 tackles, an interception and two passes defensed. The Redskins, who had scored 52 points against the 49ers last week, were held to 125 yards of offense. The Giants forced four turnovers -- pouncing on three fumbles to go with Pierce's interception. "(That offense) had been rocking and rolling," Pierce said. "We stopped all the big plays. Guys were flying around, and when you fly around on defense, you make turnovers happen." Safety Brent Alexander wasn't surprised by the performance because "Antonio was pumped all week for this game," he said. "He played big. You could tell this was a big game for him. He wanted this game bad." Pierce hadn't left the Redskins with bitter feelings. He just thought they should have found some room under the salary cap to keep him, and he wanted to prove that yesterday. He remains buddies with several players, close friends with running back Clinton Portis, whom Pierce dragged down a couple of times yesterday. Portis gained only nine yards on four carries. On his interception, Pierce dropped back into zone coverage and Redskins quarterback Mark Brunell hit him right in the numbers. When asked how he ended up with the ball, even though there wasn't a receiver in the area, Pierce chuckled, then sounded a lot like Barber. "That's what happens when you know what they're going to do," he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saqs Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I refuse to believe that Greg Williams is so stupid as to prepare a defense this way. Changing your tendencies from week to week is basic stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC8 Bunta Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 that makes me sick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I refuse to believe that Greg Williams is so stupid as to prepare a defense this way. I saw the Tiki press conference last night, and he was very matter of fact about how they beat the 'skins defense. Lining up to show one play and running the oppositte.... And Tiki gave Pierce all the credit... ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gambit187 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Well all you can say is its managements fault for messing up the cap, and not being able to keep Pierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNut73 Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 I refuse to believe that Greg Williams is so stupid as to prepare a defense this way. Changing your tendencies from week to week is basic stuff. Perhaps.... ...but they had us hook, line and sinker on that first play. All 11 guys bit on that one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joelvincent Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I refuse to believe that Greg Williams is so stupid as to prepare a defense this way. Changing your tendencies from week to week is basic stuff. Believe it because it happened. THere is only so much you can do to change the defense from week to week. He's not saying we didn't change out tendencies. He's saying they changed theirs so our defensive gameplan was moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 that makes me sick Me too. And you know why? If that is the case now the entire league knows. But come on guys how many players has Gregg Williams coached through the years. You would think a few would have picked up on it and would tell two friends and so on and so on. Anyway if Gregg is game planning this way then we were all wrong about this guy being that great of a D coach. However I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saqs Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Believe it because it happened. THere is only so much you can do to change the defense from week to week. He's not saying we didn't change out tendencies. He's saying they changed theirs so our defensive gameplan was moot. Right. And to not expect something so minor from ANY offense from week to week is beyond stupid. Like I said, this is basic stuff. And if GW is seriously preparing the D like this then he should be coaching Pop-Warner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Pierce is a beast but think about it....We have Lavar Arrington and Marcus Washington....Both of whom make a lot of money....We cant have 3 high profile, highly paid linebackers on one team...Thats my opinion. Its probaly true what Pierce said....why would he lie about that??? We got out coached and outplayed in this one and im sure every player and coach would admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Right. And to not expect something so minor from ANY offense from week to week is beyond stupid. Like I said, this is basic stuff. I see your point of view, and I think I'm somewhere in the middle. Of course we sucked yesterday. We deserved the beating. But watching the game, seeing Tiki running thru holes the size of Texas... like SkinsNut said, all 11 guys were biting. It was too easy, and seriously, no disrespect to the Giants, but they are NOT that good. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REEM10 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 That is why you dont let any of your players leave for a team in your conference. I have always hated that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliRulesAll Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I referred to this article on another thread. Pierce thinks like a coach (I think it's certainly in his future). Other players don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Pierce is one of the smarter football players around. He is not better physically, just better reading and understanding what is going on during the game. That is what we lost. I always thought Pierce was a much bigger loss than Smoot. I like Marshall, but he does not understand the game as well as Pierce. One could also argue that the Giants gained more than the skins lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangee7 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I have no doubt what Pierce/Tiki are saying is true. You could see the fact that they out-schemed us. What is also painfully obvious is that our defense over-pursues and takes bad angles. Keystone Cops comes to mind the last few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 We'll see who's standing at the end of the season Pierce! but we do miss Antonio that's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Montana Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 It is obvious to anyone who watched the game yesterday that the Giants knew what we were doing on defense. The line was 2 points and we lose by 36. Does anyone here think the Giants are 36 points better than the Skins? Thought not. The Giants read our defense like a book. Shame on Williams for not adequetly adjusting his gameplan in order to prevent this. The coaching staff knew that adjustments needed to be made and they still got burned. Just a piss poor job all around by the coaches and the players yesterday. That performance was a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouBrave86 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Taylor tripped up on that first play tryinig to get to Tiki, if Im not mistaken..if he doens't stumble, he gets Barber before he breaks it out for another 40 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal2Washington Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Let me get this right, the Skins D will try to stop an opposing teams top 5 plays first and foremost. WOW Antonio Price sure did give up the goods on the D. That is just incredible inside game changing info that AP gave them. I mean who the hell would have thought that a D's job was to try and stop an offenses top plays, I mean that's just ridiculous to even think that. Maybe Gregg Williams should try to stop plays that teams have never run, or flip the entire game plane around because a team just might break some plays. The Gnats manned up and beat us. No gimmicks no inside top secret info just hard nosed play. On both long runs there were players that could have made a play but didn't, we were out played from the snap, the way to get better is to forget about it and move on to Philty play hard and get a W. :eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Right. And to not expect something so minor from ANY offense from week to week is beyond stupid. Like I said, this is basic stuff. And if GW is seriously preparing the D like this then he should be coaching Pop-Warner. You and The Greek make what should be some very good and obvious points and AP, Tki and the ignats are taking some self-serving semi-truths and are running it also all the way down the field. Sure, especially on the first play, maybe they showed a familiar look and did the opposite and got an over-aggressive, seemingly-prepared defense juked right out of 7 fast points. To borrow your line, Saqs, its simple Pop-Warner logic that ANY defense is going to familiarize and prepare for ANY opponents most favored offensive tendencies. :doh: And sometimes offenses just plan on out-executing you enough times and getting their share of plays. Sometimes they'll have little new wrinkles, sometimes a whole new play, and sometimes trick plays. Pop Warner level reasoning. Oddly enough, the same applies to defense. The giants "trick plays"indeed included taking advantge off our D's tendencies, I would sure think so since that's the everyday standard approach to game preparation. But it was the execution of their players versus ours that made such a lop-sided difference in the game, not AP's info, or GW's inability to coach excellent defense at the NFL level :doh: :doh: . And I'm really glad 56's back on the field but they scored 19 with Holdman in and 16 with him sitting and Lavar in, for all those who like to keep oversimplifying. The problems were everywhere. I'm sure AP helped some, and in a few key plays too, but we didn't adjust worth crap to plays in progress, or execute competently on pursuit and tackling. We were just flat on D overall, other than making them settle for FG's a few trimes. Maybe we just got the wind knocked out too quick and were too banged up. But we just got out-performed all across the board, and yes the coaches to, to a point. But AP's inside info also had little to do with all our drops, turnovers, and penalties. We came out an 19-0 at the start of the 2nd half with the ball, and a drive and score makes it a 12 point game. We just played poorly as a team for four whole quarters, period. And they (except for Golden Eli) played absolutely great, period. But believing that it was AP's inside info on matters, which other NFL staffs couldn't ascertain 80% of from studying films, that led to this kind of blow-out is a big over-exaggeration in my view. Though it does make great media and message board fodder. It serves AP and the giants bragging rights, but I don't think it serves addressing the real truth of our failings. Of course, maybe I'm wrong and this blow-out was largely due to AP's info. In that case, I guess this sort of thing has happened a lot since FA and I've missed noting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp1267 Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Come on guys. Did Trotter help us with the eagles? Hell, why didnt barrow help us with info? Griffin/daniels? didn't one of them play for the giants? Cant thrash help us with the eagles? It's all hype. Maybe some help, but watching the game we still had guys in position but they just didnt make the tackle. I think tiki and pierce are dumb for bringing it up in the media. cant wait till dec 24th. Tiki is better served trying to control his fumbles. he is one of the NFl's leaders in that category Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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