JAJ Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Did Wuerffel really play all that well? I mean he looked good, don't get me wrong (way better than he has previously in the NFL), but there were about three or four passes that should have been intercepted (if starting CBs were playing). I think he played better than Sage, but I don't think Spurrier will be as pleased with Danny's performance as we seem to be. In fact I believe we'll see SOS say how Danny needs to really improve. It was very rare for example, when at Florida, for SOS to NOT say that his QBs needed to get better. On another note, would the Gator fans here PLEASE quit creating threads saying "See, I told you that xxxxx was the real deal" or "Now do you see why we liked them as Gators", etc. No amount of threads like this will cause Redskin fans to think like you. Only their performances on the field will do that (which we can see with our own eyes thank you very much). Oh, and before anyone thinks I don't like Florida, I am a UF alum. I grew up liking the Bengals (and still do) but there's not much to cheer for nowadays since P. Brown is gone. I follow the Redskins now because of the Gator connection but I find it very difficult to read most of the threads and responses posted by Gator advocates. Your liking them doesn't make them great players or allow you better insight into what makes them great (or not so great) players. Ok, so how about Wuerffel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I've been wondering where to post a concern I have, and now you've given me the spot. First, a pat on the back: In the pregame thread about predicting who would be the standout - I said it would be Waffle. Now, Waffle really stood out in terms of audibles, improvisation, accuracy, and finding the open receiver. Contrary to prior reports, he can obviously throw the ball more than 25 yards... In the open field, he looked brilliant lighting up the SF scrubs. In the red zone, though, I'm considerably less convinced. When the field got compressed heading toward the end zone, he seemed to have a much tougher time. It seems like this might be his achille's heel - not quite having the NFL velocity to thread the ball between DBs in tighter spaces. Now, I am not part of the Waffle/Sage battle that seems to be raging on between a few posters, and would love to hear well-reasoned repudiations of my concerns based on the SF or previous NFL games. It was more of an instinctive reaction on my part. If we don't get a powerhouse RG to open up holes for Stephen Davis, the red zone could become a real problem for us this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Hopefully with Spurriers O we won't have to spend too much time in the Red Zone. :laugh: But seriously, I think that your concern has merit. But only time and some more testing will tell. A start against a very stout Pittsburgh first-string D will be very telling. I'm looking forward to that one a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAJ Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Good question. I guess I've never questioned whether Wuerffel has a hard time in the red zone because I think Spurrier's offense has a hard time in the red zone. I think SOS's offense works great at scoring when the scoring opportunities are 20+ yds downfield (remember, his QBs are taught to look deep first and then throw short... I consider deep to be at least 20+ yds). However, when he gets down around the 10-15 yrd line, it seems his offense bogs down (or at least the passing part). I don't know enough about SOS's offense to say why that is, only that while at Florida I was much more comfortable when we had the ball at say the 25 yard line than the 5-10 yard line. Weird huh? Maybe that will change with Stephen Davis as the RB but I'm not so sure about that either. While at UF, SOS's offense seemed to only have about three running plays and unless our O-line was dominating, they rarely worked and we turned to the passing game. When you only have to cover 15 yards (ball at the 5yd line and then the 10 yd endzone), it made it a lot easier for the defense to defend Spurrier's scheme. Just my $.02 worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by JAJ Did Wuerffel really play all that well? I was thinking the same thing when visiting the Sistine Chapel. I mean, sure, Michelangelo painted the ceiling -- but let's face it, his work is overrated. First of all, he used paints and brushes -- hardly original. Second, he used colors -- like other people hadn't thought of that before. Third, the ceiling? Give me a break. Just an attention-getting gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAJ Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 What was the attention getting gimmick? The "After further review" title? Ok, whatever. Did I say Wuerffel played poorly? No. I said he didn't play as well as I first thought. If he was playing against starting DBs, Danny's line would have been (don't have the exact figures): 15/20, 300 yds, 3TD, 2 (or 3) INTs. Still a good line but the INTs would have tempered a lot of people's enthusiasm over his performance. I think we're so giddy over Danny's performance because it was so much better than what we've seen from him in previous NFL games. I know that I started to believe some of the spew coming from Mel Kipehair's mouth regarding Danny and last night proved I was wrong in not listening to SOS. Obviously you can take away what you want from the game, but I just wanted to say that I didn't think Danny's performance was as good as I had first thought. [/End of Attention-getting-gimmick] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 There is a reason why it is called the RED zone. It plays into the defense's hands. It stregnthens everything the defense wants to do. Without getting into all the details, suffice it to say that there is a reason it is a STAT that all team's offense keep a very close eye on. Its very tough in the NFL to score TDs in the RED zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 JAJ, He did not have four balls that could have been intercepted. He had two and of the two, only one was really clearly interception bait. As for Spurrier's Red Zone offense, in fact, a strength of the Fun & Gun is reputed to be the strength of scoring inside the 20s. On one series as we were going in from around the 10, they even showed why it is so strong, showing that if the defense plays up, the ball comes out quick. If they press up, the receivers run different routes and is very efficient from inside the 20s and we SAW that yesterday. Now, I do think we may struggle scoring from within the three-yard line where routes can't really develop as easily if we are unable to run better, but, that's neither here nor there. That'll have to improve, obviously. Wuerffel played a superior football game at the QB position in almost every conceivable way. He made a multitude of accurate throws and he was in command the entire time. I'm not sure what you were watching, but, you were watching something that wasn't happening if you were overly concerned with Wuerffel's play. Can it improve after the first of five preseason games? Sure. But, it was the first of five preseason games you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 We need to give Danny W. some time to shake off the rust since his UF days. I think he'll be looking much better as the season progresses. As far as the red zone is concerned, Stephen Davis is still very strong in this area. I don't know this offense very well yet, but I do know that he will get us touchdowns inside the 20. I am a huge fan of play action inside the 20. Can anyone from UF comment on SoS's use of play action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I agree Wuerffel could have easily had a few picks against a starting defense but he was throwing on just about every play and they can't all be gems. Hopefully, in the regular season we will run the ball on occasion. Wuerffel dismissed the "weak arm" argument in my opinion. He may not have a cannon of an arm, but he showed he's capable of the necessary throws to make Spurriers offense click at an NFL level, or at least an NFL exhibition game level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAJ Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 I deleted my copy from TiVo, but I'll have to disagree with you on the number of passes that could have been intercepted. I believe it was closer to four but I can't prove it now. In any case, when did I say I was concerned about Wuerffel's play? I said I didn't think Wuerffel played as well as I originally thought and provided reasons for why I thought that. His performance was great for last night but still has a lot of room for improvement. I read many posts saying how Danny will be the starting QB based on last night's performance. I still think that Sage and Shane could outplay him in the remaining preseason games. Last night's performance by Danny wasn't a starting job winning performance IMHO. It is ok to critique right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 It's fine to critique, but you must have accurate info. It was two passes that could have been intercepted and not one more. One a bit of a floater in the back of the end zone, and another a skinny post that the defender jumped. Of the two, the second one was really close and the first was probably not interceptable, though it was badly thrown. I completely agree with your assessment that he's not guaranteed the starting position now. It's foolish to assume the position is won before two of the four QBs have taken a snap in game conditions and when we have four more games with which to use in evaluating the play of the guys available to us. Wuerffel, though, played the position exceptionally well last night. The red zone offense was very crisp and efficient last night, which is something I've seen Jaws, Hoge and last night Theismann discuss as being a staple of the Fun and Gun. Obviously had Wuerffel tossed a couple of inteceptions people wouldn't have been as pleased with the feel of his performance. But, he did not throw the interceptions. As Brett Favre said after the Rams game last year, he's had games in which he should have had 10 interceptions, but he ultimately had five touchdowns. No one cares about anything but the end results. And in Wuerffel's case, the end result was superb. And, as you said, that result was very much to our surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Sure it's OK to critique, but disagreements with your critique are likewise permitted. I don't see what more could be asked of Wuerffel in a first preseason game. He showed excellent judgement, confidence and a total command of this offense. No one here thinks he won the Super Bowl last night, but given the situation he acquitted himself admirably. FWIW, Wuerffel's slated to start against Tampa Bay in the fourth preseason game, I believe. Maybe then we will have enough evidence to draw firmer conclusions. But based solely on last night's performance, I think Danny's earned the benefit of a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstiGATOR Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 A few points here: 1. They are DBs for a reason. Wuerffel had a pick dropped. Rosenfel had a pick dropped. DBs do not catch as well as WR. This is a widely used excuse by someone who wants to down play a good performance. Every game is litterred 2. Yes Wuerffel played that well. You might really ask that queston about Rosenfel. If you take out his best play, the 65 yard TD pass, his QB rating drops from 93.5 to 61.5. If you take out Wuerffel's best play, say the 44 yard TD pass, his QB rating drops from 139.8 to 121.0. Some times in a single game one play makes your stats go from 20-10-1 for 172 yard and 2 TDs from 19-9-1 for 109 yards and 1 TD. Now Rosenfel had to exploit the breakdown of the 49ers but this is the type of situation that might make you question did a player play that well. If you take out a players single best play and he still has a QB rating of 121.0, yeah he played that well. 3. The Wuerffel doubter eventually will have to decide is it that he can not throw deep due to arm strength or he can not throw short due to arm strength. Wuerffel eats up the redzone as does SOS's offense. Heck he was one decent call in the redzone from having four TD passes. Doering most certainly caught that ball in the field of play and got over the goal line before the DB pushed the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodday,eh Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 The first preseason game didn't provide an definitive answers. It just provided glimpses into what the future could be. They were positive glimpses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 If you take out his best play, the 65 yard TD pass, his QB rating drops from 93.5 to 61.5. If you take out Wuerffel's best play, say the 44 yard TD pass, his QB rating drops from 139.8 to 121.0. This is the kind of stuff that really annoys me. Why would you take away their best play? If they made that play, then why say, "Oh this doesn't count because it doesn't go well with what I'm trying to prove." It's like saying, "Oh, Stephen Daivs would've only had 37 yards rushing if you took away that one 72 yard run and that other 61 yarder, and oh yeah, that 87 yarder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by InstiGATOR Yes Wuerffel played that well. You might really ask that queston about Rosenfel. If you take out his best play, the 65 yard TD pass, his QB rating drops from 93.5 to 61.5. If you take out Wuerffel's best play, say the 44 yard TD pass, his QB rating drops from 139.8 to 121.0. Some times in a single game one play makes your stats go from 20-10-1 for 172 yard and 2 TDs from 19-9-1 for 109 yards and 1 TD. Now Rosenfel had to exploit the breakdown of the 49ers but this is the type of situation that might make you question did a player play that well. If you take out a players single best play and he still has a QB rating of 121.0, yeah he played that well. (flushed face.... fanning myself) My, InstiGATOR, all these stats .... you're turning me on. You'll soon learn that the best way to prove points in this forum is not by arguing statistics, but by arguing the "potential" of the players in question. I admit I haven't mastered this art, but it's held in very high regard here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Well to be truthful. I expected a lot more of the QB play to turn out like Sage's first series. Not that I don't think are QB's are capable, but this is the FIRST game. They suprised me by shaking off a bad first series and turning in superior play from there on out. That has to count for something. Remember that was Sage's FIRST game to start. And, Wuerfel(sp?) suprised me a lot too. I hear people say, "well he is used to this system so he will look better" Well, DUH, if he is used to this system and works good in it, then HELL YES, USE HIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorEye Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by JAJ Did Wuerffel really play all that well? I mean he looked good, don't get me wrong (way better than he has previously in the NFL), but there were about three or four passes that should have been intercepted (if starting CBs were playing). I think he played better than Sage, but I don't think Spurrier will be as pleased with Danny's performance as we seem to be. In fact I believe we'll see SOS say how Danny needs to really improve. It was very rare for example, when at Florida, for SOS to NOT say that his QBs needed to get better. On another note, would the Gator fans here PLEASE quit creating threads saying "See, I told you that xxxxx was the real deal" or "Now do you see why we liked them as Gators", etc. No amount of threads like this will cause Redskin fans to think like you. Only their performances on the field will do that (which we can see with our own eyes thank you very much). Oh, and before anyone thinks I don't like Florida, I am a UF alum. I grew up liking the Bengals (and still do) but there's not much to cheer for nowadays since P. Brown is gone. I follow the Redskins now because of the Gator connection but I find it very difficult to read most of the threads and responses posted by Gator advocates. Your liking them doesn't make them great players or allow you better insight into what makes them great (or not so great) players. Ok, so how about Wuerffel? First, I'm not sure what you could mean by asking if he really played well. I think he showed masterful command of the offense considering it was his first start in a while and in a preseason game at that. People can quote stats all they want and state he had several balls that SHOULD have been intercepted. I SHOULD be a millionaire, but I'm not. I could care less if he went 6-26, the bottom line is the score. How many scoring drives did he have? As for my starting the thread - Now do you know why we like Danny? I think it was an honest thread. All summer I listed to people calling him Danny Aweful and how he couldn't throw a ball 25 yards and we should cut him before camp. I think I'm clearly justified in stating that all of these people were quick to judge him. I hope I presented my remarks with tact. I basically try to argue that these people should be given a chance and not just dismissed because they haven't been good NFL players in the past. AmsterdamGator is over the top in his debate tactics and is giving all Gators here a bad name. I don't think anyone is an idiot for their opinion as he would have you believe as there are clearly more knowledgable football people on this board than I am. It's more in how you present your argument and back it up than the actual message itself. The judgement is still out on Danny anyway, after all it was only one game against the SF backups so he could still struggle against the tougher defenses. Could he play better? Sure. Could he flop once the competition heats up? Sure. But I think outside the Gators, he surprised just about everyone with his performance, even against lesser talent. So at this point I feel its ok to put a little crow in a plate on a table. If anyone wants to take some, that's up to them, but I'm certainly not going to ram it down everyone's throat like AG. As for your statement about SOS's offense having trouble in the Red Zone, I would have to wonder how many UF games you watched. I don't want to get argumentative, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find any person who has watched any fair amount of Gator games that we struggle in the Red Zone. You could count the games SOS has coached that I've missed on one hand and to say SOS's offense struggles in the red zone is ludicrous. If you listened to the broadcasts you would have heard them talking about he we consistently had the highest Red Zone scoring percentage in the conference if not the country. Did you see the play they diagramed from UF showing how we score from the 4 WR set? Most of Danny's TD's were probably from short fade passes to the corner of the end zone similar to the one Doering couldn't quite wrestle in. Here's a quote from an article during after the 1996 UF-UGA game, notice the stats and who was running the offense: http://www.athensnewspapers.com/1996/110396/1103.gators.html "(The Gators) execute so well it's almost like a surgeon performing an operation," said Georgia linebacker Bryan Jones, a Jacksonville native. Most of Georgia's suture marks came from Florida quarterback Danny Wuerffel, who completed 16-of-23 passes for 279 yards and four touchdowns. The senior has guided Florida into the Red Zone 36 times this season, resulting in 33 scores. His performance gives credence to the theory that Florida head coach Steve Spurrier has been hard at work cloning a master race of quarterbacks in a secret laboratory near Gainesville. When you have a QB who has command of SOS's offense, they will not struggle in the red zone. Even if you have the argument that we score mostly from outside the red zone - ok, I'll jump in your boat. I could care less if we score from our 10 yard line or our opponents. If we score often - who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Sway Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Yes, he did. Upon further TiVo review, that is. I watched each of his passes at least three times. More for the TDs. So damn confident, and the passes had zip. If that's a weak arm I'm an O Lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsThug Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Two word's on SS' ability to score in the red zone: Stephen Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorEye Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by SkinsThug Two word's on SS' ability to score in the red zone: Stephen Davis. Exactly. The Gator RB's always scored a lot of TD's as well. I'm sure SOS is smart enough to know he's got the big guy back there for those short yardage situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Smooty I don't have Tvo but I do have ESPN. You're right, those balls were delivered with athority. I'm impressed. All I know is that if Shane is better we're gonna have one helluva good year. For that matter, if DW is our starter and Sage is the worst we have... were gonn have a helluva good year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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