codeorama Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Who's "God" does "God" refer, it certainly doesn't say "one nation under the Christian God"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 It's lunacy because the Judge has to know the consequences of the ruling, and has to know it will be struck down by the SCOTUS.BTW< are kids required to say the pledge? Or just be in the room when it's recited ? OK, we agree then, somewhat. I too think it's lunacy to waste the time, even though it is unconstitutional. As far as requirement, some places they are required to say it. It all depends. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's technically unconstitutional to even bring God into the equation, regardless of whether or not people have to partake or simply have to sit there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 ????This issue is going to push Katrina coverage to page 10. Everyone, on both sides, is going to be talking about 24/7. The people who don't think its that out of hand can simply say "I'm sorry that Senator (X) is trying to score some cheap points while this nation is dealingl with a national disaster. Fortunately, most of us in the Senate and Congress are focused on the situation in New Orleans and helping those people down there" Repeat that enough and it'll mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 This thread motivated me to change my signature. Thank you. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 The people who don't think its that out of hand can simply say "I'm sorry that Senator (X) is trying to score some cheap points while this nation is deal with a national tradegy. Fortunately, most of us in the Senate and Congress are focused on the situation in New Orleans and helping those people down there"Repeat that enough and it'll mean something. Oh, you still think there are Senators and Congressmen with a conscience. I think the Right will pounce on this and the left will have no choice but to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I'm waiting for evolutionists (hehe) to demand equal time and alter the pledge to say "one nation under god or created by years of small changes to biological life and the earth's crust....." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (nosemilk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Oh, you still think there are Senators and Congressmen with a conscience. I think the Right will pounce on this and the left will have no choice but to respond. I think there are ones out there smart enough to wait for somebody to jump in this, and then score their own cheap points by driving him/her into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 ...this was big news in 2002 when it became illegal in the 9th Circuit. The 9th Circuit might hear it once then take it en banc, where they might overturn it. Most likely, we will need to wait at least another year or two for this to make it to the Supreme Court, where the Roberts Court can finally put it to rest. It will be big news in 2007 or 2008 or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 ok what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Bush will make it an issue now to get a far right jurist on the Roberts Court to hear this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Personally, thinking about it, to me, this is an issue of tolerance. And that means tolerance from both sides. I could care less if someone says "Under God" or removes that phrase from the Pledge while THEY are saying it. But that seems a bit forced if someone HAS to say it either way. If a Christian child says "God," then good for him, that is his belief. If the athesit child chooses to remove it, then so be it. It does not have to be so cut and dry, in my personal opinion, to the point where our ideology is so stringent that solutions cannnot be created to even satisfy a parent with a minority opinon. If the parent is actually suing the school district because he doesn't agree with OTHER kids, who may have faith, use God in the Pledge, then he is being intolerant himself. Both sides definitely have their fair share of intolerance. Some may not agree with my opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I'm waiting for evolutionists (hehe) to demand equal time and alter the pledge to say "one nation under god or created by years of small changes to biological life and the earth's crust....." Heh. "Under God or whatever force of Intelligent Design." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 The 4th Cicuit Court of Appeals ruled in August that State Law CAN force a child to cite the pledge. This Judge is ruling on an issue upon which a Federal Court has already decided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Personally, thinking about it, to me, this is an issue of tolerance. And that means tolerance from both sides. I could care less if someone says "Under God" or removes that phrase from the Pledge while THEY are saying it. But that seems a bit forced if someone HAS to say it either way. If a Christian child says "God," then good for him, that is his belief. If the athesit child chooses to remove it, then so be it. It does not have to be so cut and dry, in my personal opinion, to the point where our ideology is so stringent that solutions cannnot be created to even satisfy a parent with a minority opinon. If the parent is actually suing the school district because he doesn't agree with OTHER kids, who may have faith, use God in the Pledge, then he is being intolerant himself. Both sides definitely have their fair share of intolerance. Some may not agree with my opinion, of course. Good points. Personally, I really don't care either way. However, I don't like the idea that the right thinks it's appropriate to have it in schools. Religion and school doesn't mix IMO. Again, it doesn't bother me that they say the pledge in school, because as a kid, I could have cared less, and I doubt the guy who's sueings kid cares. As an adult, I'll admit, I get aggrivated when we go to a school board meeting and there is a prayer and we have to recite the pledge. But I'm not sueing to have it stopped. I just don't say it. At some point, some of you guys on the right, you are going to have your kids exposed to religious ideas that you don't approve of, in public school, because the door is left open. Not all teachers are christians. Our school district has a large number of muslim teachers. Do you want them leading your child in prayer? I realize that's not the same thing as the pledge, but that's what you guys want. You think that everyone is christian and if there's prayer in school, it's christian prayer. You couldn't be further from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 The 4th Cicuit Court of Appeals ruled in August that State Law CAN force a child to cite the pledge. If you think that's OK, that's scary to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Why Code? If a state passes such a stupid law, the people should have to adhere to it. If they dont like it, elect people that will change the law. The ruling doesnt say that States MUST make it mandatory, only that they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Why Code? If a state passes such a stupid law, the people should have to adhere to it. If they dont like it, elect people that will change the law.The ruling doesnt say that States MUST make it mandatory, only that they can. What I was saying is that if you personally believe that it's ok for a child to be forced to say the pledge, that's scary. I don't think that's what you believe, but any judges that are enforcing that are nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallen5862 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 The Constitution says Congress shall not establish a Religion nor prohibit the exercise thereof. The school is not Congress. There is no legal basis to oppose the Pledge of Allegiance. Freedom of speech should allow the saying of the pledge in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 The Constitution says Congress shall not establish a Religion nor prohibit the exercise thereof. The school is not Congress. There is no legal basis to oppose the Pledge of Allegiance. Freedom of speech should allow the saying of the pledge in school. Basically, if a child wants to say the pledge or pray on their own, fine, let them, but the school shouldn't be leading them in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 What I was saying is that if you personally believe that it's ok for a child to be forced to say the pledge, that's scary.I don't think that's what you believe, but any judges that are enforcing that are nuts. Judges arent enforcing it, only saying that it's Constitutional to be stupid. I agree with them. I support states rights, whether right or wrong, the state has the right to make a stupid law. What I oppose are Judges who try to create law themselves. IE, I would oppose a Judge who came out and said that the states MUST force kids to recite the pledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Judges arent enforcing it, only saying that it's Constitutional to be stupid.I agree with them. I support states rights, whether right or wrong, the state has the right to make a stupid law. What I oppose are Judges who try to create law themselves. IE, I would oppose a Judge who came out and said that the states MUST force kids to recite the pledge. I would hope the judge would realize that the state can't force kids to recite the pledge because it's unconstitutional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I have always found it amusing how so many conservatives defend the pledge of allegiance.The original author of the pledge was a socialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I always find it amusing how so many conservatives defend the pledge of allegiance.The original author of the pledge was a socialist. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I would hope the judge would realize that the state can't force kids to recite the pledge because it's unconstitutional. But it's not Code, that's what the 4th ruled. http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/gazette/2005/08/pledge-recital-ruling-4th-circuit.php Essentially they state that requiring the pledge does not "establish" a religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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