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Pledge Declared Unconstitutional

visionary

By visionary
in The Tailgate

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rictus58

rictus58

Posted
Posted
Considering what's going on today in the world.

How is this breaking news?

I remember sitting next to Rictus58 in Mr. French's 1st period science class when they would have the Pledge.

Those who wanted to do it.... did it. Those who didn't, weren't forced.

It was Ms. French. And yes, nobody is forced to do it.

although, I doubt many student understand the meaning of it. I didn't until after high school.

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Chopper Dave

Chopper Dave

Posted
Posted

You know, while I don't necessarily disagree with its technical unconstitutionality, who gives a crap? It technically violates the separation of church and state, but honestly, is it that big of a deal? Is it worth wasting the time and money to combat? I mean, aren't the people fighting against the word "God" in the classrooms the same people fighting for the word "evolution" or "contraception" to be allowed in the classrooms? It's just a friggin' word. And the context that's it's used in isn't even that overtly religious.

As a liberal, this pisses me off, because we could easily be spending our time and effort actually accomplishing something.

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codeorama

codeorama

Posted
Posted

Here's the play by play...

In general, the left and right probably don't really care because they realize that the kids in question have no idea of the meaning of what they are saying anyway, BUT... the right thinks is should be required because they think the left doesn't want it to be required, whereas, as the same time, the left is against requiring it to be said because they think the right really thinks it's important...

Thus, something that isn't really a big deal becomes one.

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rictus58

rictus58

Posted
Posted

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools was ruled unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge who granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist who lost his previous battle before the U.S. Supreme Court.

U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."

Karlton said he was bound by precedent of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which in 2002 ruled in favor of Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow that the pledge is unconstitutional when recited in public schools.

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

Posted
Posted

I sometimes wonder if the neocon cabal pays people like the looney lib Judges who make these ruling, or Michael Moore, or Howard Dean. These kind of issues are losers for the Dems. And winners for the GOP without much of political loss.

Just when it was possible that the Dems were making headway, this comes along. And it will dominate the news cycles for weeks.

Get ready for Bush to pounce on this as a reason to appoint a far right Judge to the SCOTUS. This will be the issue the right uses to pound the left into submission on the confirmation of Michael Luttig, or Janice Rogers Brown.

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codeorama

codeorama

Posted
Posted
I sometimes wonder if the neocon cabal pays people like the looney lib Judges who make these ruling, or Michael Moore, or Howard Dean. These kind of issues are losers for the Dems. And winners for the GOP without much of political loss.

Just when it was possible that the Dems were making headway, this comes along. And it will dominate the news cycles for weeks.

Get ready for Bush to pounce on this as a reason to appoint a far right Judge to the SCOTUS. This will be the issue the right uses to pound the left into submission on the confirmation of Michael Luttig, or Janice Rogers Brown.

Sorry, but one side will never dominate for long.

Which ever side it is, will wear out it's welcome and the other side gets their chance and they end up doing the same... It's a cycle that will continue to go round and round until people wake up and vote for third party candidates.

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codeorama

codeorama

Posted
Posted
I dont doubt that Code, but it's not as if the GOP is losing elections. They're still gaining and solidifying power. And events like this help the GOP.

The dems have been in that same boat in the past. It's nothing new.

With the hurricane and the war in Iraq, I'm not sure if it's all that big a deal.

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visionary

visionary

Posted
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Posted

Judge declares Pledge unconstitutional

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- The Pledge of Allegiance was ruled unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge who granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist whose previous attempt to get the pledge out of public schools was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.

The judge, ruling in a lawsuit brought by Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow, ruled that he is bound by precedent of the Ninth U-S Circuit Court of Appeals.

Newdow objected to the words "under God" in the pledge.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Find this article at:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/14/pledge.ruling.ap/index.html

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Chopper Dave

Chopper Dave

Posted
Posted
I sometimes wonder if the neocon cabal pays people like the looney lib Judges who make these ruling, or Michael Moore, or Howard Dean. These kind of issues are losers for the Dems. And winners for the GOP without much of political loss.

Just when it was possible that the Dems were making headway, this comes along. And it will dominate the news cycles for weeks.

Get ready for Bush to pounce on this as a reason to appoint a far right Judge to the SCOTUS. This will be the issue the right uses to pound the left into submission on the confirmation of Michael Luttig, or Janice Rogers Brown.

Oh, so this judge is just some "looney liberal" because he disagrees with you? Does conservative debate strategy always boil down to name calling?

Listen, I'll be the first guy to agree this is a waste of time, and I honestly couldn't care less if they allow the word "God" or not, but the fact of the matter is that making kids pledge allegiance to something "under God" in a public school violates the separation of church and state. If a conservative judge were posed with this and didn't make the same decision, he wouldn't be doing his job. He'd be playing partisan politics, which needs to be as limited as possible in our court system.

All that said, I still think that this is a BS case that liberals are making fools of themselves with.

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

Posted
Posted
I'd be interested to see who's dumb enough to focus on this when there is a city laying in ruins, a dozen bombs in one day in Iraq, and SC hearings downtown.

The idiot that opens his mouth against this is going to get his arse pumbled for being out of touch with the here and now.

????

This issue is going to push Katrina coverage to page 10.

Everyone, on both sides, is going to be talking about 24/7.

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Chopper Dave

Chopper Dave

Posted
Posted
Not every case, but certainly this case.

Regardless of the legalities ( which I disagree with your assesment that it's a violation) it's sheer lunacy to make this ruling.

The GOP is salivating over this.

I fail to see how it's lunacy. The Constitution bans integration between religious and public institutions (i.e. the flag and God), and it especially bans the requirement of citizens to adhere to such unconstitutional integration (i.e. pledging allegiance to the flag under God's witness). Just because you believe the Constitution is wrong doesn't mean that that's not what it says.

I do agree that it's a useless waste of time. It shouldn't even be an issue. And with the general climate of the country right now, it wouldn't surprise me if the GOP used it to their advantage, despite their unconstitutional position.

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Baculus

Baculus

Posted
Posted

I think a lot of us may be overstating what it means to either the Right or the Left on this issue. There are many issues crowding the airwaves for attention, and I would venture that a number of folks won't even hear about it. Or, with larger stories such as Iraq or Katrina, it will seem like a minor issue to a lot of ordinary citizens. After all, how many times do we hear about some ruling on a circuit court that really never rears its head again? Especially in San Francisco?

Folks have a short memory - keep that in mind.

I am not trying to down play this story, but I am sure it will evolve before it becomes an election issue in 2006 or 2008.

My question is, what if someone in school actually recites the pledge, and with "under God" as part of it? Will that put school administrators in the awkward task of disciplining kids for that? Doesn't it then become a freedom of speech issue?

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

Posted
Posted
I fail to see how it's lunacy. The Constitution bans integration between religious and public institutions (i.e. the flag and God), and it especially bans the requirement of citizens to adhere to such unconstitutional integration (i.e. pledging allegiance to the flag under God's witness). Just because you believe the Constitution is wrong doesn't mean that that's not what it says.

It's lunacy because the Judge has to know the consequences of the ruling, and has to know it will be struck down by the SCOTUS.

BTW< are kids required to say the pledge? Or just be in the room when it's recited ?

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