Skinned Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Sometimes you have to just look at the player and how they play the position, in relation to how it is really supposed to be played. When you look at Ramsey, is there even an ounce of similarity in his style to any of the great QB's? I think not. He is jittery, doesn't get the ball to his receivers as they are coming out of their breaks, can't move, doesn't have confidence, etc, etc, etc. I wish him all the success in the world, as I am a Skins fan first and foremost, unfortunately, I just don't see him possessing top NFL QB skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdog Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I was at the game and I watched the offense coming off the field and noticed the WR's and Rb's were getting there butts chewed out for there route running.So I will go out on a limb and suggest Ramsey had a little help in his preformance.The best thing that can happen is Joe Gibbs go to Patrick and tell him after viewing the film that this is his team, not worry about a mistake or two he is the starter and will remain the starter.I bet you get that 500lb gorilla off his back he could turn it on as QB.Brunell is a quality QB against 2nd & 3rd team camp fodder and he looked good against them he should being a seasoned vet and muti millionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 You know, this debate goes far beyond Patrick Ramsey. Especially since I've seen this debate on Lavar Arrington. It goes to how people view the world and how they form conclusions, how they weigh evidence and what they value. There are frequently debates involving topics or figures that are at neither extreme (positive or negative), but are made so because some choose to cast the issue in extreme terms. Then, eventually, the mere act of tussling with those parties makes extremists out of moderates. IT is not enough for some to say, "this isn't going to work." They're like the people who break up with a girl and have to say how terrible, boring or unsexy she was, rather than admit the truth is more subtle than that, and that MAYBE, just MAYBE it ain't all her fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo No I'm not. Here is Ramsey's career stats: Year G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate 29 23 836 465 55.6 5370 6.42 64 33 28 70 10 74.4 Again, tell me why he is great. Oh, his CAREER stats, huh? You mean those that include things like his rookie year and the games when he came in cold to replace Brunell last year? :laugh: Let's put it this way. You started by panning Ramsey. That's your burden, i.e., to prove he sucks. You've utterly failed to carry your burden in doing so. On the flips side, I've never said Ramsey is great. One piece of evidence I have pointed however is his starter rating last year, something you've give up on and something which bespeaks of desperation and surrender. The only thing that could top that off is your reliance on his CAREER stats, numbers which include games that are wholly unreliable barometers of what kind of a QB he CURRENTLY is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin You know, this debate goes far beyond Patrick Ramsey. Especially since I've seen this debate on Lavar Arrington. It goes to how people view the world and how they form conclusions, how they weigh evidence and what they value. There are frequently debates involving topics or figures that are at neither extreme (positive or negative), but are made so because some choose to cast the issue in extreme terms. Then, eventually, the mere act of tussling with those parties makes extremists out of moderates. IT is not enough for some to say, "this isn't going to work." They're like the people who break up with a girl and have to say how terrible, boring or unsexy she was, rather than admit the truth is more subtle than that, and that MAYBE, just MAYBE it ain't all her fault. Bingo, Ghost. This is completely representative of how people form conclusions and how they back them up. And it's about how rhetoric ("Ramsey hasn't been good these three years") often obfuscates the logic in a point. If some people understood this basic process, they might have a better take on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREDICTOR Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Hooper Ramsey didn't look good tonight -- even when he was playing against the second string. Brunell looked pretty good. But he looked pretty good in preseason last year as well. It means nothing. I watched lots of games this weekend -- not many guys impressed. Dallas looked frickin' awful. But I will say this. With Pat's constant happy feet and his continued inability to see the field, that Campbell pick is looking better and better. You are simply wrong. Patrick looked good on several occasions. And especially when you consider that HE also played with 2nd stringers. Rock Cartwright got more than his share of carries and touches. Just as soon as our best receiver, Chris Cooley makes a catch...Gibbs takes him out of the game and inserts Kozloski. Portis has 1 carry and leaves the game. So in many respects Patrick was playing with 2nd stringers also. In fact, while Carolina is running reverses, and QB rollouts, and reaching deep into their playbook to try and win the game and score...Joe Gibbs is running basic..VERY basic drop back and throw over the middle of the field. Patrick is a sitting duck right now and he was under pretty good pressure several times. The Panthers have one of the best defensive lines in the NFL and they blitzed him a lot also. He is a sitting duck right now because EVERYBODY knows Gibbs is going to have him drop straight back and pas on 5 out of 7 plays. I've written your name down and I will remind you about this post after the first few games when Patrick has full access to the Gibbs playbook and is one of the leading passers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Oh, his CAREER stats, huh? You mean those that include things like his rookie year and the games when he came in cold to replace Brunell last year? :laugh: Let's put it this way. You started by panning Ramsey. That's your burden, i.e., to prove he sucks. You've utterly failed to carry your burden in doing so. On the flips side, I've never said Ramsey is great. One piece of evidence I have pointed however is his starter rating last year, something you've give up on and something which bespeaks of desperation and surrender. The only thing that could top that off is your reliance on his CAREER stats, numbers which include games that are wholly unreliable barometers of what kind of a QB he CURRENTLY is. Yea, enjoy the koolaid. It is what it is. The guy has not produced as hoped for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin How am I dead wrong? In that last post, I expressed my displeasure with you. In the post before that I used a word to describe an approach, you chose to take that personally. Perhaps it's because you know that some of the thoughts finding expression here are not incorporating the full measure of rationality and history. I'm hardly 'dead wrong' because you fell back on an argument that took nothing into account. I definitely didn't "resort" to casting aspersions on your intelligence. From the first post onwards, you did that yourself. Check the post before again--I RESPONDED TO YOUR POINTS. You can't ignore that fact. Since your reply to that post contained no thoughts, most objective observers would consider you to have 'fallen back' on immature responses when you have merely lost the patience or will to debate someone. Seriously, dude, you CAN question how someone approaches a topic AND respond to what points they do offer AT THE SAME TIME. I don't see what is so difficult in understanding that concept. You and I are from different planets. I form my opinion on past results and facts. You form yours from a what if scenario and a fantasy. Kind of tough to find a common ground when both schools of thought are not even in the same logic base, right? You have your opinion, I have mine. Feel free to keep replying, but remember my thread might end up with more posts than yours and your 'internet image' might get tarnished. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Oh, his CAREER stats, huh? You mean those that include things like his rookie year and the games when he came in cold to replace Brunell last year? :laugh: Let's put it this way. You started by panning Ramsey. That's your burden, i.e., to prove he sucks. You've utterly failed to carry your burden in doing so. On the flips side, I've never said Ramsey is great. One piece of evidence I have pointed however is his starter rating last year, something you've give up on and something which bespeaks of desperation and surrender. The only thing that could top that off is your reliance on his CAREER stats, numbers which include games that are wholly unreliable barometers of what kind of a QB he CURRENTLY is. And BTW - what is wrong with you? You tell me how good he is. It is very easy to lie in wait and pounce on an argument, but it appears you are an intellectual coward. Tell me how good he is (and stop putting words in my mouth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo Yea, enjoy the koolaid. It is what it is. The guy has not produced as hoped for this team. Then come up with a better argument. I'd like to hear it. So far, you've come up with zip. As for your last statement, I'll agree with that in part. I'm just going to wait and see. That's my point and that's all I'm saying. My larger point is that he's never been given a fair shot. He's had two years of Spurrier and one year of getting Brunell shoved in his face. Having said that, reality is a b1tch in the NFL. And that reality is that Pat's time is running out. I just fear that if we let him go and he is given a fair shot somewhere else, he'll shine. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 On another note, synonyms for 'intelligent': able, acute, alert, apt, astute, calculating, capable, clever, comprehending, creative, deep, discerning, enlightened, imaginative, ingenious, instructed, inventive, keen, knowing, knowledgeable, penetrating, perceptive, perspicacious, rational, , reasonable, resourceful, responsible, sage, understanding, well-informed, wise Considering I used variants of knowledgeable, well-informed, understanding, reasonable, rational, one would think it was a pattern, rather than a base insult of labelling my opponent, "dumb." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Bingo, Ghost. This is completely representative of how people form conclusions and how they back them up. And it's about how rhetoric ("Ramsey hasn't been good these three years") often obfuscates the logic in a point. If some people understood this basic process, they might have a better take on things. So tell me now what it means if Ramsey gets benched. Does that mean that you had it all assbackwards, and we are the smart people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Then come up with a better argument. I'd like to hear it. So far, you've come up with zip. As for your last statement, I'll agree with that in part. I'm just going to wait and see. That's my point and that's all I'm saying. My larger point is that he's never been given a fair shot. He's had two years of Spurrier and one year of getting Brunell shoved in his face. Having said that, reality is a b1tch in the NFL. And that reality is that Pat's time is running out. I just fear that if we let him go and he is given a fair shot somewhere else, he'll shine. Oh well. How good is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo And BTW - what is wrong with you? You tell me how good he is. It is very easy to lie in wait and pounce on an argument, but it appears you are an intellectual coward. Tell me how good he is (and stop putting words in my mouth). Want some good points? -- As evidenced by his starting rating last year, he's shown -- but not yet proven -- that he can be a #1 QB. -- Strong arm. Can make all the throws. -- Makes better decisions as he understands an offense. -- Can go deep very well, something that's a feature in this year's offense. -- Good leader. -- Fierce competitor. That's what I could come up with off the top off my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by CHUBAKAH So tell me now what it means if Ramsey gets benched. Does that mean that you had it all assbackwards, and we are the smart people? Are you dense? That's a serious question. The point here, for the umpteenth time is not whether you're ultimately right, it's whether you have a sufficient factual basis to back up your opinion right now. Example: some guy on Constitution Avenue keeps warning us the world's gonna end tomorrow. He says so just about everyday. Well, suppose he's right next Friday. Was he a genius? Hint: your'e that guy on Constitution Avenue. Get it? Good Lord, how many times do we have to go over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Want some good points? -- Strong arm. Can make all the throws. -- Makes better decisions as he understands an offense. -- Can go deep very well, something that's a feature in this year's offense. -- Good leader. -- Fierce competitor. That's what I could come up with off the top off my head. :doh: Can make all what throws? better decisions than what/who, Quincy Carter? Deep to the other team. Lead us to lose. Compete? Maybe in college. In order to compete you have to actually win more than lose:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by illone You and I are from different planets. I form my opinion on past results and facts. You form yours from a what if scenario and a fantasy. Kind of tough to find a common ground when both schools of thought are not even in the same logic base, right? You have your opinion, I have mine. Feel free to keep replying, but remember my thread might end up with more posts than yours and your 'internet image' might get tarnished. :laugh: We might be from different planets, but i certainly don't base my opinion on what ifs and fantasy. You merely have a narrow view of facts and the pendulum of your emotions dictates to you how you will view them. I'm not saying you are unsteady in your general 'view' but that your interpretation of the small details that compose the 'big picture' is heavily influenced by emotion (in your case, negative on this topic.) What goldy and I have both been arguing for is not an overly sanguine appraisal of Ramsey, but of more circumspect evaluations. The problem is that you were like this BEFORE LAST SEASON. You and Chuey based your assumptions on bad samples. If you had become critics after last season, at least you would have had some credibility as observers of the QB situation and of Ramsey, in particular. And right, that post was significant merely because of how many posts it garnered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Want some good points? -- As evidenced by his starting rating last year, he's shown -- but not yet proven -- that he can be a #1 QB. -- Strong arm. Can make all the throws. -- Makes better decisions as he understands an offense. -- Can go deep very well, something that's a feature in this year's offense. -- Good leader. -- Fierce competitor. That's what I could come up with off the top off my head. That is preposterous! - He is a starter only because the veteran brought in specifically to replace him sucked. - Cannot make all the throws, cannot throw the fade, has poor touch, missed two wide open fades tonight - Makes horrible decisions, has only TWO more TDs than INTS - How, NFL leaders win, he loses - So was the last 5 starters we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by illone :doh: Can make all what throws? better decisions than what/who, Quincy Carter? Deep to the other team. Lead us to lose. Compete? Maybe in college. In order to compete you have to actually win more than lose:doh: Hey genius, try taking issue with his starter rating last year. And yeah, he can make all the throws. His decisionmaking is suspect at times, but gets better as he gets used to an offense. Give it up, sonny. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Hey genius, try taking issue with his starter rating last year. And yeah, he can make all the throws. His decisionmaking is suspect at times, but gets better as he gets used to an offense. Give it up, sonny. :laugh: Hey genius, try making up your mind. Either he makes good decisions or they are suspect. Which one is it? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo That is preposterous! - He is a starter only because the veteran brought in specifically to replace him sucked. - Cannot make all the throws, cannot throw the fade, has poor touch, missed two wide open fades tonight - Makes horrible decisions, has only TWO more TDs than INTS - How, NFL leaders win, he loses - So was the last 5 starters we had. Oh God, another dense poster. Okay, let me just point you to his rating as a starter last year. Try tackling that. Of course, I've asked you that umpteen times and you've whiffed. Balls in your court, junior. As it has been the for the last few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinned Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 How many deep balls did Ramsey complete lasy year? How bout passes over 20 yds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by illone Hey genius, try making up your mind. Either he makes good decisions or they are suspect. Which one is it? :doh: Can you read and comprehend, dude? He, at times, makes suspect decisions, but he generally is all rigth on them. Are you that dense not to appreciate that fine distinction? Oh yeah, great response to his starter rating last year. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 Can make all the throws. Originally quoted by Steve Spurrier Oh he can make all the throws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo Jeez, leave it to JimmiJo to seize on the lone, isolated point and extrapolate grand conclusions from them. Lenni Riefenstahl would've been proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.