illone Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin It's not a diss. I'm describing the appropriate approach to any criticism(or praise.) You've not once heard me say, "Pat's game is flawless, this dude is the best QB in the league!" Yet you hear the opposite from the anti-Ramsey brigades. When I say "intelligence" I mean USING IT, not merely possessing it. There's all the difference in the world between saying, "I don't think Ramsey sees the field well and that leads to breakdowns in other facets of his game that sometimes appear to be progressing" and saying, "Ramsey stinks, it's the SAME THING YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT." By the way, 3 years of losing games--in what capacity? What little we were CAPABLE OF, victory-wise during SPurrier's tenure, was Ramsey. Last year. 3-4. With 3 games coming against the NFC Champion Eagles and 15-1 Steelers in his second start with the playbook still wrapped tight? The dude has far fewer starts than Harrington or Carr. How is it they've not been fully judged and you see fit to judge Ramsey on FEWER STARTS?! That seems more than a bit absurd. It never occurred to anyone here that Trung Canidate was not a premier rusher in this league? I mean, I got suckered in too, thinking he could work in THIS(Spurrier) system, but he didn't. THAT was Patrick's running back, he and a pre-Gibbs Betts. :blahblah: :blahblah: :finger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JeffSchmeff Ghost - Remember when Ramsey first got his opportunity? Remember the compliments about how much "poise" he had against Tennessee? He's had the bravery to stand in and deliver the pass, but that has also been one of his biggest criticisms. This year, he seems after one game to be too jumpy. Look back to the play where he felt pressured and tried to scramble. It ended up being a one yard gain, but why not throw that ball away? Also, how can you explain his apparent inability to look off receivers? I'll give you the pass to Moss may have come out of his hand wrong, (which I've recently heard him use as an excuse in a TV interview) but why was he throwing to a double covered WR in the first place? But that's my point, Jeff. You actually demonstrated a memory of the past that wasn't wholly negative. You argue that one of his strengths is also his biggest weakness(or became so once his bravery was eroded.) I'm not saying today was perfect or that it will be, even next week. What I'm saying is that the standards the critics use are inconsistent and rarely applied to QBs in similar situations. The simple retrieval of a memory that does not jibe with a "Ramsey sucks" template shows you've been observing and noting changes, be they good or bad. I don't think Ramsey is ever going to be "BRady" in seeing the field. He doesn't have to be. With our D, I actually think all he ever has to be is Bobby Hebert. Though, I think he has the ability to be better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by illone :blahblah: :blahblah: :finger: What a commentary on your own inadequacies. I explain myself and counter your 'perception' of my use of the word "intelligence." I go further to dissect your 'analysis.' I refrain from attacking you at all in the reply. You respond in a matter befitting a 15 year old noob. But I've kind of noticed that the bashers of certain players on this site, when having nothing of substance to proffer, resort to such behavior. It's not a criticism/praise, pessimism/optimism thing. It's a mindset. There are thoughtful critics out there. I guess you're just not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin I don't think Ramsey is ever going to be "BRady" in seeing the field. He doesn't have to be. With our D, I actually think all he ever has to be is Bobby Hebert. Though, I think he has the ability to be better than that. He needs to be a lot better than tonight, a lot better than last year, a lot better than the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo Yes let's talk about last year, specifically the Eagles. Do you remember the Skins driving the length of the field to the red-zone at the end of the game and then 'Pat" throwing a pick on first and ten into triple-coverage? It cost us the game, yes? Yes, it did cost us that game. Originally posted by JimmiJo He does not see the field. He holds the ball too long. He makes bad decisions. In other words - he is not "super-football-smart." He is not a quality starter in the NFL. Agreed, and I will add you to the list of "intelligent" football fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by CHUBAKAH Yes, it did cost us that game. Agreed, and I will add you to the list of "intelligent" football fans. Why thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin What a commentary on your own inadequacies. I explain myself and counter your 'perception' of my use of the word "intelligence." I go further to dissect your 'analysis.' I refrain from attacking you at all in the reply. You respond in a matter befitting a 15 year old noob. But I've kind of noticed that the bashers of certain players on this site, when having nothing of substance to proffer, resort to such behavior. It's not a criticism/praise, pessimism/optimism thing. It's a mindset. There are thoughtful critics out there. I guess you're just not one of them. Again with the attemtped diss:laugh: Nice try, though. Funny how you resort to intelligence bashing once you know you are dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo Yes let's talk about last year, specifically the Eagles. Do you remember the Skins driving the length of the field to the red-zone at the end of the game and then 'Pat" throwing a pick on first and ten into triple-coverage? It cost us the game, yes? He does not see the field. He holds the ball too long. He makes bad decisions. In other words - he is not "super-football-smart." He is not a quality starter in the NFL. I see. One decision and he sucks. Ever wonder that we got that close because of Pat? Also ever wonder how Brunell would've looked in that game? What about the rest of the time he was a starter last year? Care to look at his rating? Care to also look how close his rating was to Favre's? Oh yeah, but that Favre must've sucked too right? Get a clue here, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by CHUBAKAH Yes, it did cost us that game. Agreed, and I will add you to the list of "intelligent" football fans. How pathetic. Yeah, Ramsey may not pan out, but the evidence you've adduced to support that dire prediction is, at best, flimsy. I've seen some good arguments about how Ramsey won't cut it, but all the ones you've put up offer all the logic and rationale of a Howard Dean screed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Ghost, if you are happy with Ramsey performing as good as Bobby Hebert then I have proven my point:laugh:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 I see. One decision and he sucks. Ever wonder that we got that close because of Pat? Also ever wonder how Brunell would've looked in that game? What about the rest of the time he was a starter last year? Care to look at his rating? Care to also look how close his rating was to Favre's? Oh yeah, but that Favre must've sucked too right? Get a clue here, folks. I wish it was one bad decision. He made at least one bad decision tonight - he missed a crossing receiver 10 yards closer wide freaking open and instead held the ball too long and then underthrew the intended receiver (whom he telegraphed the ball to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by illone Ghost, if you are happy with Ramsey performing as good as Bobby Hebert then I have proven my point:laugh:. Try looking at Ramsey's rating as a starter last year. Try also considering that if he played all 16 games, we'd have been a playoff team, albeit in a weak NFC. Would you be entertaining that same view? If so, you'd be the fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinned Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I think the rook may already be better than both of em :2cents: I am not saying that he should start, I just think he may move up quicker than expected. Campbell is fluid, has nice touch, is mobile, and has a gun. Ramsey has yet to look comfortable and I am at a loss when trying to remember the last time he completed a 20 yd pass. Brunell looked sharper tonight than he has ever looked in a Redskin uniform. He had a hop to his step that was missing last year. The arm still doesn't convince me, but it looks like his head may be clearer from all those knocks he took last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 How pathetic. Yeah, Ramsey may not pan out, but the evidence you've adduced to support that dire prediction is, at best, flimsy. I've seen some good arguments about how Ramsey won't cut it, but all the ones you've put up offer all the logic and rationale of a Howard Dean screed. Ok, fine. Forget all of the arguments why Ramsey is not a good QB. You tell me what makes him a good QB. List the things that you think make him a quality starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Skinned I think the rook may already be better than both of em :2cents: I am not saying that he should start, I just think he may move up quicker than expected. Campbell is fluid, has nice touch, is mobile, and has a gun. Ramsey has yet to look comfortable and I am at a loss when trying to remember the last time he completed a 20 yd pass. Brunell looked sharper tonight than he has ever looked in a Redskin uniform. He had a hop to his step that was missing last year. The arm still doesn't convince me, but it looks like his head may be clearer from all those knocks he took last year. Good post:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Skinned Brunell looked sharper tonight than he has ever looked in a Redskin uniform. He had a hop to his step that was missing last year. The arm still doesn't convince me, but it looks like his head may be clearer from all those knocks he took last year. [/b] HEAR HEAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo I wish it was one bad decision. He made at least one bad decision tonight - he missed a crossing receiver 10 yards closer wide freaking open and instead held the ball too long and then underthrew the intended receiver (whom he telegraphed the ball to). I hate to tell you this, but QBs make bad decisions. Ramsey's made many others than those you've mentioned. The question here is, in the big picture, how'd he do? If you wish to surgically excise each of Ramsey's faults and shortcomings and cite to us that as a basis for his ouster, give it up. We all know what he can and can't do. Give us a big picture argument and start with trying to rebut the point about his rating as a starter last year. Funny how you simply buzz past that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by illone Again with the attemtped diss:laugh: Nice try, though. Funny how you resort to intelligence bashing once you know you are dead wrong. How am I dead wrong? In that last post, I expressed my displeasure with you. In the post before that I used a word to describe an approach, you chose to take that personally. Perhaps it's because you know that some of the thoughts finding expression here are not incorporating the full measure of rationality and history. I'm hardly 'dead wrong' because you fell back on an argument that took nothing into account. I definitely didn't "resort" to casting aspersions on your intelligence. From the first post onwards, you did that yourself. Check the post before again--I RESPONDED TO YOUR POINTS. You can't ignore that fact. Since your reply to that post contained no thoughts, most objective observers would consider you to have 'fallen back' on immature responses when you have merely lost the patience or will to debate someone. Seriously, dude, you CAN question how someone approaches a topic AND respond to what points they do offer AT THE SAME TIME. I don't see what is so difficult in understanding that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 I hate to tell you this, but QBs make bad decisions. Ramsey's made many others than those you've mentioned. The question here is, in the big picture, how'd he do? If you wish to surgically excise each of Ramsey's faults and shortcomings and cite to us that as a basis for his ouster, give it up. We all know what he can and can't do. Give us a big picture argument and start with trying to rebut the point about his rating as a starter last year. Funny how you simply buzz past that. I say again, tell me what makes him a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by JimmiJo Ok, fine. Forget all of the arguments why Ramsey is not a good QB. You tell me what makes him a good QB. List the things that you think make him a quality starter. 'Scuse me. You're the guy saying he's not. Are you done? Is all you've got a couple of bad decisions? I'd like to clarify the record on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 How pathetic. Yeah, Ramsey may not pan out, but the evidence you've adduced to support that dire prediction is, at best, flimsy. I've seen some good arguments about how Ramsey won't cut it, but all the ones you've put up offer all the logic and rationale of a Howard Dean screed. You are starting to sound like Ghost. So now he may not pan out. Bwahahahaha How bout we take away that INT he had today so he can have a 91% QB rating? All I can do is laugh at you two. Your both so clueless. If this, if that. Your arguments each and every thread. I'm sure glad school starts back soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by Skinned I think the rook may already be better than both of em :2cents: I am not saying that he should start, I just think he may move up quicker than expected. Campbell is fluid, has nice touch, is mobile, and has a gun. Ramsey has yet to look comfortable and I am at a loss when trying to remember the last time he completed a 20 yd pass. Brunell looked sharper tonight than he has ever looked in a Redskin uniform. He had a hop to his step that was missing last year. The arm still doesn't convince me, but it looks like his head may be clearer from all those knocks he took last year. Boy, Cambpell did look the bomb didn't he? BTW, he doesn't have a gun, he looks like he's throwing a baseball out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by CHUBAKAH You are starting to sound like Ghost. So now he may not pan out. Bwahahahaha How bout we take away that INT he had today so he can have a 91% QB rating? All I can do is laugh at you two. Your both so clueless. If this, if that. Your arguments each and every thread. I'm sure glad school starts back soon! You mean I'm starting to sound intelligent? Is that all you've got Chubakah? Give it up, fool. Nice of you to sidestep the point about his rating as a starter. And yeah, school does start soon. I'll give you my first lesson in logic for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 'Scuse me. You're the guy saying he's not. Are you done? Is all you've got a couple of bad decisions? I'd like to clarify the record on this. No I'm not. Here is Ramsey's career stats: Year G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int 20+ 40+ Rate 29 23 836 465 55.6 5370 6.42 64 33 28 70 10 74.4 Again, tell me why he is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by goldenster95 You mean I'm starting to sound intelligent? Is that all you've got Chubakah? Give it up, fool. Nice of you to sidestep the point about his rating as a starter. And yeah, school does start soon. I'll give you my first lesson in logic for free. I'm reporting you for calling me a name. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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