codeorama Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 I'm very excited about Tom Tupa... :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Gregpeck99...nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNatsFan Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by fansince62 "The "intimate" connection a center has with QBs is purely physical. That doesn't qualify him as an expert on a QB's football playing abilities." He played on multiple SB teams; was an all-pro if memory serves. Gimme a break.....you really want to run with the notion that someone sitting in Utah - as great a coach as he might be - has more insight than someone who has been part of the Skins family (including multiple SBs), who worked with the coaches, who worked closely with mulitple QBs, who has access to the team none of us have, who spent a whole career analyzing game film of NFL QBs - has a better foundation? Not to denigrate Utah - who has nade very insightful posts in the past - but Bostic may have some domain knowledge that qualifies his observations as falling within the pale of reason.........one would think that to be rather obvious. Nope, I don't agree with you at all. If he had been a quarterback, I'd give him more credit. I'll go with what I saw, combined with, in my opinion, more qualified people than a former center. When he speaks about the offensive line, I listen. At what point during his career do you think he was focusing on the mechanics of the QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin So Gibbs likes Pat's pocket presence. The Panthers announcers thought he was OK. HE thought he was OK. And Utah, A FOOTBALL COACH, thinks he's OK. But I'll believe jbooma and the rest of the Brunell crew and the Ramsey haters(not necessarily the same thing.) Riiiiiiiiiight. Just for the record, not everyone who questions the perfect Patrick Ramsey is a "Ramsey hater" or part of the "Brunell crew" necessarily. There are some of us in the middle who just want the best option on the field at QB (and every position) come September. Over the past two days, all people can say to any criticism of PR is "Brunell sucks" or "Did you watch last year????" or something else like that. I want Ramsey to succeed. However, if over the course of the next 3 or 4 weeks, Gibbs and company feel more comfortable with Brunell, I want him in there. That doesn't make me a hater, it doesn't mean I am oblivious to what happened here last year...it just means that I love the Skins more than any one player. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by fansince62 "The "intimate" connection a center has with QBs is purely physical. That doesn't qualify him as an expert on a QB's football playing abilities." He played on multiple SB teams; was an all-pro if memory serves. Gimme a break.....you really want to run with the notion that someone sitting in Utah - as great a coach as he might be - has more insight than someone who has been part of the Skins family (including multiple SBs), who worked with the coaches, who worked closely with mulitple QBs, who has access to the team none of us have, who spent a whole career analyzing game film of NFL QBs - has a better foundation? Not to denigrate Utah - who has nade very insightful posts in the past - but Bostic may have some domain knowledge that qualifies his observations as falling within the pale of reason.........one would think that to be rather obvious. I think it's rather obvious that Bostic's a Brunell apologist. He was down on Ramsey almost the entire game for perplexing reasons. He sounded like he wanted another QB controversy, and if you couldn't detect that bias it is probably because you want another one too. I don't know about you but I'm going to go with the words of Burlien, Joe Gibbs, Utah, and others who are infinately more qualified to critique a QB's mechanics than a former Center. Ramsey looked uncomfortable at times on Saturday, but he didn't have happy feet. Some of you are just willing to blow percieved weaknesses out of proportion in order to feed your addiction to instability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by TheSteve Some of you are just willing to blow percieved weaknesses out of proportion in order to feed your addiction to instability. Yes, as a life-long fan of the Redskins, I would like nothing more than to have our young, first-round pick NOT succeed at QB this year. I would hate to watch a couple nice crisp preseason drives orchestrated by Ramsey and then see him turn the reins over to Brunell and Campbell to finish off the game vs. the scrubs. Come on man. We all want the same things here. No one here is pulling for more turmoil and drama on this team. Some of us just have a differing opinion on whether Ramsey will ever fully succeed as a Redskin. It doesn't mean he won't and it doesn't mean we don't want him to. If Gibbs marches Ramsey out there in September, that'll tell me that he saw enough to agree with you guys and he feels comfortable with Patrick. That's good enough for me...until September though, I'm going to call it like I see it because that's all I have to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitting bull Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Please help me... I live in france and i have no chance to watch a redskins game this year Nobody can help me ? With torrent link of the game or others :logo: Just for preseason game... i can buy the season game on this site http://www.pontel.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red zone Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 In all, though, it was not a good performance but it was not a bad performance. You can draw little from how he played other than he can improve and that he even has shown some improvement in the touch category and being able to give the receivers a chance to run after the catch. Solid synopsis Art. However, and I'd have to go back and review the game myself, there was another Ramsey throw I don't think you mentioned. On at least one occassion he threw short of the chains on third down; Norv Turner style. While the receiver should be blamed (as Buges so eloquently did) for not running his route passed the sticks, I put that on the QB for throwing it to him. This scenario played out at least once or maybe twice Saturday while Patrick was in. No, PR wasn't as bad as most posts this week would have you believe, but he certainly was a disappointment. Esp. behind the best pass protection I can recall since "Hogs 1." Brunell, on the other hand, was a surprise. I think the zip he found is due to a healed hamstring much more so than anything to do with his arm. Regardless, I think the number of folks who questioned the Jason Campbell draft is shrinking. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNatsFan Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins If Gibbs marches Ramsey out there in September, that'll tell me that he saw enough to agree with you guys and he feels comfortable with Patrick. That's good enough for me...until September though, I'm going to call it like I see it because that's all I have to go on. That makes sense. Here's to everyone noticing improvement Friday night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Fair enough. The WCO is a timing offense. A QB is taught that his drops (quick steps for outside routes and deep steps for inside routes) are apart of the timing of any given route. For instance, a 3 step drop will coincide with a short out route and the QB will plant on his 3rd step and throw. On a 5 step route, the patterns are meant to give the receiver a chance to create some seperation or to finish his route, a QB will do what is called a hitch step or maybe 2. A hitch step is also known as a "pop-up". As the QB plants on his final drop step, he bounces up to reset his feet. This can be done on any steps for any reason but it is meant to allow for timing and to give the QB a chance to reset and make a good throw. Now, a timing route or in this case WCO QBs are taught that they are given a primary, alternate and then dump routes in all their plays. Most of the time, those players routes are in the same vicinity of each other, not all the time, but lets not get too detailed here. The routes are meant to attack zones or specific man coverage. Receivers are supposed to be in that specific area and that is what the QB is looking for along with did the receiver create any speration or give himself a chance to be open basically. Now a QB, is taught that once he does his drop, he cannot plant his feet unless he is throwing the ball. He now has to keep his feet moving foward. Look at the QB and see how his feet are moving and is he still in a position to throw the ball. A QB with happy feet, will drop the ball and put himself in a position so that he has to readjust himself to be able to throw the ball and furthermore, he will be too worried about where the rush is instead of what his receivers are doing. The rule taught to a WC QB is that if your primary and alternate are taken, you had better get yourself moving in the pocket based on the time it would take for the rush to get to you or your line to be pushed back into you. The pocket will not stay forever and you as a QB are taught not to expect the pocket to be there for very long. Most of the time, this is seen with the QB either pushing himself foward or moving to the side where the rush has left an opening. I have to get to work right now, but that is a quick idea of what a QB is taught in this type of offense. I think Coach Gibbs called a WCO game this last preseason when it came to the throwing game. It was very much dependent on timing routes and putting the ball in play in a very specific time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Utah, Great post! I know that you know much more about football than I do but I have one more followup question to your analysis. Do you really think that our offense is THAT WCO-heavy now that they've retrained Ramsey all of those traits? I mean, I thought we were just going to steal bits and pieces of the philosophy... What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 SkinsNatsFan....I think he sat through a whole career in which he was exposed, as an offensive player during film sessions and practices, to coaching on QB technique. btw.......by your standard...Utah would either have to be a former QB or a QB coach. He's the head coach if I recall....not a position coach. Do you honestly believe that an offensive lineman, an all-pro, a member of the famous hogs for gods sake, like Bostic doesn't have credible thoughts on QB footwork? How a QB should move in the pocket? What the time dimensions are? How a QB should work the lanes he and his fellow linemen create? how release and release angle relates to the passing lanes? it's all part of one symphony. the one has to know what the other is going to do. Bostic may not be one to teach throwing technique - but I think it is reasonable to assume he has knowledge of thie things I just mentioned. anywho...not worth getting flumoxed over!....have a great day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Utah, great post, thanks for the insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Utah.....very nice! I'm smarter for your effort and teamwork......thanks brotha!!!! ignore my position coach comment - you know of what you speak. I look forward to other insights you chose to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNatsFan Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by fansince62 SkinsNatsFan....I think he sat through a whole career in which he was exposed, as an offensive player during film sessions and practices, to coaching on QB technique. btw.......by your standard...Utah would either have to be a former QB or a QB coach. He's the head coach if I recall....not a position coach. Do you honestly believe that an offensive lineman, an all-pro, a member of the famous hogs for gods sake, like Bostic doesn't have credible thoughts on QB footwork? How a QB should move in the pocket? What the time dimensions are? How a QB should work the lanes he and his fellow linemen create? how release and release angle relates to the passing lanes? it's all part of one symphony. the one has to know what the other is going to do. Bostic may not be one to teach throwing technique - but I think it is reasonable to assume he has knowledge of thie things I just mentioned. anywho...not worth getting flumoxed over!....have a great day! Actually, by my standards, I would not ask the center of Utah's team about quarterback mechanics. Joe Gibbs is not a position coach either. He's infinitely more qualified than Jeff Bostic when talking about quarterbacks in general, and obviously the QBs he coaches on a daily basis. And no, I personally don't think that the offensive linemen are schooled much on a QB's foot movement. I'm sure they're supposed to know roughly where he is supposed at a given time for each pass play, but I doubt they spend any time at all going over a QB's mechanics. By the way, take a look at Utah's last post and watch the game Friday with that in mind. Try watching the Carolina game without listening to Bostic if you have the time and opportunity. You have a good day too! Go Skins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 we agree to differ! I'll listen to Bostic and Utah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Sonny J had no problems with Ramsey's footwork or performance in general. Bostic is very knowledgable about line play, but it's hard for him to judge a QB's feet, unless he's looking between his legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin So Gibbs likes Pat's pocket presence. The Panthers announcers thought he was OK. HE thought he was OK. And Utah, A FOOTBALL COACH, thinks he's OK. But I'll believe jbooma and the rest of the Brunell crew and the Ramsey haters(not necessarily the same thing.) Riiiiiiiiiight. I knew you would be around It was interesting that with 38 seconds before the half instead of having Ramsey work on the 2 minute drill Gibbs put Mark back there, and he moved the ball Nice post Utah, I understand the timing, and maybe it means that Pat isn't ready for the O yet, didn't Brunell use a similar system before though The bottom line is when Pat was behind center we did not move the ball, and we can't have that with our starting QB if it is due to happy feet, timing, confidence, or whatever it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Jbooma it's just laughable to me how you want to QB carousel continously spinning. Your bias against Ramsey is worse than Jeff Bostic. You're a Brunell apologist who is reading into the situation far too much. What is more probable is that Ramsey and the first string wideouts weren't even supposed to be playing that long. The only reason they were kept in was because they weren't having success. Gibbs probably told them one more drive before we hang it up for this game. They got their one more drive in and Brunell got to finish the half. Now that the pocket presence talking point has been shot down you're going to the he couldn't move the ball excuse. I could point you to a lot of other starting QBs who didn't move the ball in their first preseason game either. Is it so hard to consider for a moment that the timing is not yet there between Ramsey and his wideouts in real game situations? Woop De Doo Jbooma, keep pressing that panic button, after preseason game number one no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 time to throw in the towel!....also on the basis of one friggin game: there are no problems at all! PR is ready for the hall of fame! life is great......the Panglosses have spoken...and so it shall be!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by jbooma I knew you would be around It was interesting that with 38 seconds before the half instead of having Ramsey work on the 2 minute drill Gibbs put Mark back there, and he moved the ball Nice post Utah, I understand the timing, and maybe it means that Pat isn't ready for the O yet, didn't Brunell use a similar system before though The bottom line is when Pat was behind center we did not move the ball, and we can't have that with our starting QB if it is due to happy feet, timing, confidence, or whatever it was. wrong again :doh: we did move the ball but didn't score in a PRESEASON GAME #1 a typical jbooma trying to be contrary post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 How's Winslow doing, buddy? Do you spoonfeed him and spongebathe him every day during his extensive rehab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotterEgg Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Just hang on a few more days and Palmer will be free and we can swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 18, 2005 Author Share Posted August 18, 2005 Thanks guys. Some of the ideas here will have to be for other columns, but, I promise to try to get everything in as we go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by bubba9497 wrong again :doh: we did move the ball but didn't score in a PRESEASON GAME #1 a typical jbooma trying to be contrary post Bubba we crossed the 50 twice with the starting O how do you call that moving the ball and we did not score any point, it wasn't till Mark got in that we got the FG and moved inside the oppenents 20. 'But the Redskins struggled on their first two drives. Patrick Ramsey ended their first possession when he underthrew Santana Moss and was intercepted by Chris Gamble, and they couldn't move the ball at all on their second attempt. "I'd so for us, obviously we have a long way to go," Gibbs said. "We're going to have to go home. We've got a lot of work to do." Ramsey was decent his third time out, completing three straight passes -- two to Ladell Betts and a 16-yarder to Chris Cooley -- before the drive stalled. Ramsey finished 8-of-12 for 77 yards but failed to lead the Redskins to any points. "I think you lose, you're disappointed. You don't score, you're disappointed," Ramsey said. "We moved the ball. Obviously we've got to stick it in the end zone." " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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