Yomar Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Nothing new really, Jansen and Davis contract situations: http://www.profootballweekly.com/content/waywehearit/wwhi_set.asp?main=was.asp By Pro Football Weekly As published in print July 15, 2002 A couple of story lines to keep an eye on this season involve the contract situations of ORT Jon Jansen and RB Stephen Davis. Jansen’s contract calls for him to be a member of the Redskins through 2003. However, he has already reached incentives that will allow him to void the final year of the deal. He had expected to have an extension done before the start of training camp, but the Redskins haven’t been overly eager to get it done. As for Davis, his deal becomes very salary-cap cumbersome in the near future, with cap figures approaching the $10 million mark when roster bonuses are figured in. It will be very interesting to watch the development of second-round pick Ladell Betts, who might ultimately be a better fit in Steve Spurrier’s offense. Betts is a darting-type runner with pretty good hands. If he performs well, Davis’ future beyond this season could be up in the air, especially considering Betts will cost much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I realize this is just one more baseless opinion and nobody's been out on the field yet. But after Snyder & Co were pummelled mercilessly for that horrible "reach" in grabbing Betts, slowly we are starting to hear that Betts may be better for Spurrier's offense than Davis, one of the best backs in the game? It'll be fascinating to see how this plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Although I like Stephen Davis and his ability, I to think it still needs to be seen whether he is a good fit for this offense. Of course, I'd love to see the defense stretched out and then have him barreling off tackle. I question his receiving skills. Some have reported that Davis has good hands, but from what I've seen he will drop as many as he catches and does not seem comfortable and fluid when he does see the ball. Last year alone, it seemed that he dropped more than his share of passes in the flats which could be contributed to a lack of concentration. It Betts can "dart" through the line and into the secondary, as well as catch out of the backfield, than this year may be Davis' last. Not only that, but SD's agent may play hardball and force the team's hand. No back, not even Marshall Faulk, is worth $10 mil a year. Renegotiate with an eye for the team's perspective regarding the cap, or prepare to be cut next June and go play for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeCarl Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 This is just my opinion, but it seems almost incredible to think that a running back drafted in the 2nd round who's never set foot on the field during an NFL game would be considered a better 'fit' for an offense than the guy who's set the franchise single season record not once, but twice. I'll take the guy who doesn't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W&M Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Unfortunately, the decision on Davis will have to be made in February, because we have to be under the Cap by March 1, and I doubt we'll be in a position to carry a bloated $11 Mil Cap figure all the way until June, just so we can take the bulk of the cap hit in 2004, rather than 2003. We know this, and Davis knows this. That's why everyone already views Davis as an unrestricted Free Agent, beginning March 2, 2003. So any "renegotiated deal" will essentially be a new contract. I dont' think anyone expects Betts to be as a good as Davis, but there is a point to be made that Davis's biggest strength (power/cut-back running between the tackles) is not as valued in SS's offense. Pressumable, we'll be able to make do with slightly less ... or with a different style of RB. Without question, I'd prefer to keep Davis, but if SS can make due with a stable of cheaper backs like Betts ... then perhaps we can dedicate the saved cap money (which will be a ton) to getting the WR's that S-Spurrier needs to make his offense go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 isn't he still going to count vs our cap if/when we release him? can someone with cap knowledge explain how this works. i seem to remember another thread like this before, but couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Puh-lease!!! If you don't think a power runner is a necessity in a pass happy offense, go back and watch the last Super Bowl! Even the Rams got their pass game shut down because they didn't run anybody thru the line of scrimmage. Look what an embarrassment Elway and the Broncos were year after year until Terrell Davis came along. Having a guy who can smash between the tackles is an incredible commodity. People were saying this same kind of crap about Riggins when Gibbs arrived, and well, you know, it seemed to work out well. I agree Davis has lousy hands, but he will keep the defense honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I was under the impression that Betts was cut from the Davis mold, except not as powerful. I may be totally wrong (and I probably am), but isn't Betts too slow and not powerful enough? I'm sure people were saying that about Davis, but hell, Betts just doesn't sound too good to me. He may be a better receiver, but that's about it. This kid could potentially develop into something special, but you don't put all your eggs in his basket, especially when you should make a serious effort to see how your franchise runner's contract situation plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Hey, I want Davis back as bad as the next guy.... I'm just being a realist. He and his agent believe the Redskins owe them something, and THIS is the contract they expect to get it. I think Davis is an elite back, top five for sure, and I surely understand the importance of a back who can move the pile and pick up the tough yards. The Rams lost last year's superbowl because they abandoned the run, choosing instead to try to overwhelm the Patriots with the "greatest show on turf". The Pats D simply forgot about the run, and popped the receivers every chance they got. With that said, we may find that Betts has alot of the same qualities that Davis has. We know he's built, he's 220lbs. Matter of fact, there isn't much difference in their stature at all. Davis is 6ft 230, Betts is 5'10 220lbs. You can't tell me two inches and 10 lbs is a crucial difference. And... what if we find out that Betts hits the hole harder, with more of a lean and lower center of gravity, and performs similarly to Davis in the open field. Heck, there are times when I think S.D. runs to erect, to high, and gets popped before he ever gets started. With his added benefit of good hands (Betts), is it worth a $10 mil to stick with Davis? Ultimately, we'd like to sign Davis to a reasonable contract.... including paying him a proportionate amount to his performance and pro bowl status. But, if he thinks he's got us over the barrel due to the current contract, then I think we release him and make do with someone else..... even if he isn't considered a pro bowl back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W&M Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I agree with you Choosen One, I think a power back and an open, vertical passing game can be a deadly combo, as each complements the either ... pressuming the play-calling uses both facets. But Davis's greatest contribution to SSpurier will be having a power back helps in the red-zone, b/c it keeps the offense in character. Perhaps other backs would be equally effective moving the ball bt/wn the 20's, but once the field shrinks, or the weather turns nasty, the fineses runners hit the wall. And yes, this is the exact combo Gibbs used ... and it gave him the flexibility to use the run to set up the pass (Theisman years), or the Pass to set-up the run (Rypien years). This is why I'd like to keep Davis, but I can understand looking ofr value, and trying to make do with less at RB and dedicating the saved money to securing the O-Line and WR's we need. In the land of constrained resources (i.e,. salary cap), you don't always help the team's prospects by keeping the best player .... particularly when that player costs an arm & a leg and is likely to break down early (power RB's just don't last very long ... with very, very, very few exceptions). As for cap consequences, yes, if we cut Davis next year, we'll take a sizeable hit (between 4-6 mil I believe). If we wait until June 1, we can split that cap hit between years ... taking $1Mil on in 2003, and the remainder in 2004. But inorder to carry S.DAvis up until June 1, we'd have to perform some cap magic (probably involves cutting players and not signing anyone of significance in the spring) in order to carry his projected $11 mil Cap figure. Of course, if we could find a way to carry him until after June 1, then our leverage in renegotiting substantially increases, because most teams with pressing RB needs will have addressed them in the draft and FA prior to June/July. So if we hold him, the bidding will go down. But I just don't see how we can stomach an $11mil salary slot for 4-5 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Here's something interesting about Betts........ "2001 Season: Betts was named second-team All-Big Ten Conference by the league’s coaches. He started every game, extending his consecutive string to 42 contests. He was one of five seniors selected to team Leadership Group for the 2001 season. He carried 222 times for 1,060 yards (4.8 avg) with 10 touchdowns and his 1,060 yards rank eighth on the school’s season-record list. He also added 15 receptions for 137 yards (9.1 avg), a score and 9 yards on a kickoff return. Betts gained a season-high 172 yards on 22 carries, including a 5-yard score and caught two passes for 14 yards against Indiana. He rushed 15 times for 121 yards and a 38-yard touchdown against Wisconsin, then against Northwestern he gained 86 yards on 22 carries with scores of 4 & 9 yards. He ran for 171 yards on 28 rushes with a 5-yard touchdown against Minnesota. Against Iowa State, he rushed for 150 yards on 25 attempts with a 42-yard touchdown and caught 3 passes for 22 yards, including a 14-yard score. In the Alamo Bowl against Texas Tech, he had a 10-yard reception and two carries for four yards." *a 38-yard touchdown against Wisconsin *a 42-yard touchdown against Iowa State Those aren't "three yard and a cloud of dust" touchdowns. The kid doesn't seem to have a problem finding the endzone from outside the redzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I don't buy this nonsense that Davis isn't a good fit for this offense. He has decent hands, has a good feel for getting open in the flat, and as much as he's known for being a power back, he's also got some good moves and is a lot quicker than he looks. He was successful in Turner's offense, and Norv liked to throw on 1st downs and mix things up with multiple formations, like Spurrier will do, so there's no reason Davis can't be a good fit in this scheme. Matt http://thewarpath.net/board/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I think the front office is going to blow us away this summer by extending the contracts of Bailey, Jasen and Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Jeremiah Trotter and Sam Adams are fine football players but if the pursuit of these guys prevents us from getting deals done with our current top level performers like Jansen, Bailey and Davis than what are we doing other than treading water? you have to add talent, not merely trade one talent for another. and the reason this situation is upon us is largely the result of our own poor record on draft day. we haven't been able to develop any younger, cheaper offensive linemen, so Jansen really has us over a barrel. There isn't another quality tackle on the team to play RT if he leaves. on defense, the entire offseason has been a guessing game regarding the selection of the DL because once again we have failed to identify and select capable players in the draft and among the UDFA's to take over for Marco Coleman, Bruce Smith and the other greybeards. we have had to spend real money to acquire Reynaldo Wynn and then shore up the middle with a short-term acquisition for 2002 in Santana Dotson. where are the 24 and 25 year old run stuffing DT's that you see on other teams? we just don't have them. and that is why this high wire game with free agents is being played out. a game that may lose us a couple of our own high draft picks who become free agents and decide to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 good rbs r a dime a dozen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Bufford I think the front office is going to blow us away this summer by extending the contracts of Bailey, Jasen and Davis. Either you are high, dreaming, or both. But seriously, I would love for that to happen, but unless the Skins pull of a cap miracle, I think Davis is gone. I believe they will do everything they can to re-sign Bailey and Jansen, but they already have a plan in place with Betts in case they can't re-work a deal with Davis, so that makes me think Davis would be the first of these 3 to go. Matt http://thewarpath.net/board/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcard Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by bulldog Jeremiah Trotter and Sam Adams are fine football players but if the pursuit of these guys prevents us from getting deals done with our current top level performers like Jansen, Bailey and Davis than what are we doing other than treading water? you have to add talent, not merely trade one talent for another. and the reason this situation is upon us is largely the result of our own poor record on draft day. we haven't been able to develop any younger, cheaper offensive linemen, so Jansen really has us over a barrel. There isn't another quality tackle on the team to play RT if he leaves. on defense, the entire offseason has been a guessing game regarding the selection of the DL because once again we have failed to identify and select capable players in the draft and among the UDFA's to take over for Marco Coleman, Bruce Smith and the other greybeards. we have had to spend real money to acquire Reynaldo Wynn and then shore up the middle with a short-term acquisition for 2002 in Santana Dotson. where are the 24 and 25 year old run stuffing DT's that you see on other teams? we just don't have them. and that is why this high wire game with free agents is being played out. a game that may lose us a couple of our own high draft picks who become free agents and decide to move on. VERY GOOD POINTS. That's why unlike other Dallas Cowboy fans I hope Dannyboy gets involved in the Sam Adams sweepstakes. Nothing would please me more than to see atleast 1 of the 4 stud players in Champ, Jansen, Davis or Samuels leave the club. Plus this may be Darrell Greens last hurrah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W&M Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Bulldog, I certainly agree with you that more of our future drafts should be allocated to the O & D Lines. That's obvious. As for order of departure, I see only 2 certainies. First, you will never see another team's uniform on Champ Bailey. There is no market for the best cover corner in the game ... who will also tackle. He'll never know what it's like to visit other teams. He's the next D.Green. Two, I see Davis as an almost a certainty to leave. Unless Davis takes a new deal shortly before game day (to guard against injury), then the decision has been made to let him go. We may pursue him next off-season, but I'm sure one of the other 31 teams will perceive RB as a greater need (and have more cap flexibility) and pay him something we won't match. Once he's gone, his spot will be replaced by Betts, probably another draft pick and/or mid-level FA ... and a high profile WR. Next is Jansen, true, he is are only top flight RT. But I dont' think he has us over a barrel, because it's not nearly as rare to find a RT as it is to find a quality LT, DE, or DT. RT is a possition that can be capably filled in the draft, and even Rod Jones could fill. We'll make a serious pitch to keep Jansen, but he can't demand that we match to the level that Bailey or Lavar can/will. As for managing our money, if we stay away from Sam Adams, and if B.Smith waits until June 2 to retire, then we will be able to keep Jansen and Bailey if we want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Actually Q it is Green's last hurrah. He already announced that this will be his final season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 let's face it. if a player wants to leave and he has star power, unless he is signed long term, the system is set up to allow him to leave. Davis I think wants to leave. At least that is the read I am getting from the situation at hand. For a player who has made his career here and is being paid very well, he really has not been too cooperative in trying to find a way to stick around. I think Jansen is a different case. If Jansen were met with a good offer and some sincere interest on the part of the front office, that is now out drooling over other team's former ballplayers, I think something could get done there. There have been some reports of Jon wanting to leave and play closer to home but I think a good offer silences that kind of thing. Ditto for Bailey and Samuels. Give them good offers and treat them the right way and they will stay. Again, Davis appears to be harboring a grudge from the last round of contract negotiations and I think is going to use that balloon payment looming in 2003 to get his release. The other smaller part of it may be a perceived 'fit' problem with Spurrier's new offense where Davis is unlikely to get 370 carries again. But that speaks second to the dollars. How about Davis down in Texas with the Houston team in 2003? He could get his payday and join an offense that is already building with David Carr and Jabar Gaffney. Not too bad of a move for Davis. Although the Super Bowl seems a bit far off. But it must have the past couple of years around here as well. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I blame the team on the Davis situation. You can't blame Davis for not being too quick to want to renegotiate a new deal. The Skins knew this contract was going to be a problem. Now it's coming time to pay up or let him go. I don't get the feeling that Davis is holding a grudge, in the past he has said that he would like to play out his career in Washington. He's not the kind of guy to hold a grudge. If they can work out a deal that suits both sides I'm sure he'll be all for it. It's going to be tough though. Plus the Skins need to take into consideration Davis' age, the pounding he takes, and of course whether they could get away with a cheaper option (Betts) and use that money to sign Bailey and Jansen. My gut feeling is this is Davis' last season as a Redskin. I hope I'm wrong. Matt http://thewarpath.net/board/index.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 you don't see too many franchise backs switch teams in free agency. you usually see guys like James Stewart that are capable #2 backs move on. usually, top players like a Faulk or George or Smith find a way to stay and get paid if they are of a mind to. what is interesting is that in Davis' case his agent played real hardball the last time. with just one 1,000 yard season behind him Davis' agent came in with an opening position of setting his contract higher than those of Eddie George and Emmitt Smith, both of whom at that point in early 2000 had proven to be consistent 1,000 yard backs who had taken their teams to the Super Bowl. you can only imagine what kind of redo Davis is going to want this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I don't see any evidence that Davis doesn't want to be in Washington. That's a leap. Why should Davis re-negotiate right now? What's he got to gain? Basically, it's all but certain he will be a free agent after this season. But that doesn't neccessarily mean he's gone. If he doesn't excel in Spurrier's system, he can go somewhere else where he can. If he does excel, the Redskins still have to negotiate another contract that pays him like a star. The only thing the Skins have to gain by re-negotiating is gaining some cap space this season. But if they do that and Davis proves to be a poor match for this offense, then the team's cap situation is screwed again. I don't see any reason for animosity by either Davis or Skins management. A think a little caution by both is sensible. Much ado 'bout nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Stephen Davis is a pretty good running back but....I'd rather release him than pay him more than 7 million a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 We kind find a replacement for Davis. Can we fine a replacement for Jansen or Bailey? Those should be our priorities. Enjoy Davis's final season as a Redskin. He will be gone next year due to cap needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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