Ramsey shredding

[PREDICTOR]

Originally posted by fansince62

Patrick Ramsey has done NOTHING to make me believe that he isn't going to have a stronger year than anything we have seen thus far. Even with that, he should be even better NEXT year when he finally gets to start 2 years in a row with the same system and same receivers for the FIRST time in his life.

well...thanks for the penetrating analysis!!!

you you you da man! now now now!

I said more in my first sentence than your entire post contibuted.

Thanks for your outstanding contribution. You are no doubt a typical Ramsey hater.

[PREDICTOR]

P.S. One reason I specifically used Jeff Hostetler and Chris Chandler and Stan Humphries as EXAMPLES of quarterbacks who later played in Superbowls....is because the FIRST 3 years of those guys careers were anything but PRO Bowl. Those guys were just fighting to make the teams each year.

And yet at one point or another those guys, had the world in the palm of their hands 2 weeks before the Superbowl. And if memory serves, I think Chris and Jeff actually made a pro bowl once or twice.

Ramsey is further ahead at this point than several of those gentlemen. This thread asked for a moratorium on the Ramsey bashing and yet for some reason some of you have simply increased your attacks.

Go figure. You just hate Patrick Ramsey. I like the one guy who said we only have their past history to go on. Well, okay. That means Brunell should now be cut....and that leaves us with Campbell whose history in the NFL includes ZERO completions.

With that in mind, do you have another suggestion for replacing Ramsey? If not...please just shut up....at least until the season starts. If your not a Skins fan...get off the board. If you still want to say you are a fan...then get on board and support Patrick until he loses a game this year.

[Dallsux]

Unfortunately, PREDICTOR, anytime you make mention of someone, anyone, on the Redskins, there is always someone who thinks he sucks. It doesn't matter who you name.

Ramsey does catch alot of heat on this board, & it is truly sad. He has been nothing BUT generous to the members of this board, especially, with appearances & Q & A threads with the fans. I'm sure, with so many new members, there are a lot of people who don't even know that many players (not just Redskins, but players around the League) read this board as well. I can't even begin to count how many "LaVar is over-rated" threads there have been & I'm still one of his biggest lobbyists. Everytime one of those idiotic threads pops up, I end up either avoiding it altogether because I don't feel like gnawing my own tongue in anger, or spending an entire day/night on that thread defending him. But, that's just the way the board...any board is. Don't worry. All the people complaining about PR now will be praising him come week 3 when he has lit up Dallas like a Roman Candle. The naysaying will start to dissipate then.

[illone]

It's not about shredding Ramsey. What baffles me to this day is people who apoligize for the guy as if he is their blood brother or something. I mean up to this point what has he really shown ANY of you guys that warrants sticking up for him like this?

Nobody stuck up for Heath Schuler, or Gus Frerotte. I'm sure a few did but you get the point. Nobody wanted Stan Humphries to stick around for 2-3 more years and "learn the system."

Watching Ramsey play football is a painful experience. To me he is nothing more than a back-up in this league. If you look at the other QBs in the league I would have to put Ramsey right on par with most most back-ups. The only starter who stinks as bad as Ramsey is Joey Harrington. Both guys have similar happy feet and make the same poor decisions. I think Ramsey has a GUN as strong as Favre, but he has no control and even less vision. Staring down receivers works in College ball, especially Conference USA, but not in the NFL.

[tizzod]

Love him or hate him, he's the one we got, folks. Let's get behind him and hope he can help win some ball games.

[PREDICTOR]

Originally posted by illone

It's not about shredding Ramsey. What baffles me to this day is people who apoligize for the guy as if he is their blood brother or something. I mean up to this point what has he really shown ANY of you guys that warrants sticking up for him like this?

Nobody stuck up for Heath Schuler, or Gus Frerotte. I'm sure a few did but you get the point. Nobody wanted Stan Humphries to stick around for 2-3 more years and "learn the system."

Watching Ramsey play football is a painful experience. To me he is nothing more than a back-up in this league. If you look at the other QBs in the league I would have to put Ramsey right on par with most most back-ups. The only starter who stinks as bad as Ramsey is Joey Harrington. Both guys have similar happy feet and make the same poor decisions. I think Ramsey has a GUN as strong as Favre, but he has no control and even less vision. Staring down receivers works in College ball, especially Conference USA, but not in the NFL.

I can't tell you a specific of what Ramsey has shown me because he really hasn't had much of a career up to now. He has NOT played a full season so I can't point to his 1 full season of play. I can't point to the 1 year he had great receivers...because there has been no such year. I can't point to the 1 year that he had a great offensive line...because there has been no such year.

You get my point. Up to this point he hasn't had tools to work with. I think you could be right. Ramsey might suck, might be a backup after this year, and might throw 25 interceptions or lose his job halfway into the season. There is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise...but then again thats not my job or the point of this thread.

I just asked to stop the bashing and pre judging. You have never seen Patrick Ramsey in the regular season with good receivers, with a good offensive line, and a solid gameplan that allows him to throw downfield other than on 3rd and 25.

I am just saying that whether he is good or bad in 3 months, lets give the guy an opportunity to play football WITHOUT the deck being stacked against him like it has for 3 years.

Sure he stares down receivers...but they didn't teach anything different in college and Spurrier was a college coach so he didn't teach it either. Last year in some respects was Patrick's rookie year whether you accept that or not. And even then...he didn't start. He sat on the bench for 10 weeks. He showed real promise in those final 6 weeks against top 5 defenses and throwing to pathetic receivers.

Lets give him a fresh start...and if he is not all that in 10 weeks I'll hop onboard your bashing bandwagon. Fair enough?

[SamSneed36]

I think at this point Ramsey has everything to prove, and until he shows he deserves to start, or can lead this team to some wins on a consistant basis, he will be questioned. Im sure he isnt reading the board so dont worry about his feelings being hurt. I think the skeptisim at this point is justified, and theres so much of it because 30,000 plus memebers have an opinion and this is the place to express them.

[fansince62]

predictor...if you can rise above the level of a 2 year old........listen to what is being said:

- you have adduced no facts only idle chatter about more time being needed as though there was some immutable law for QB development (when the record clearly shows there are rapid learners and there are development cases)

- you have produced a strawman argument - criticize PR and you are a hater. what kind of wuss are you? make your case and move on. you are the one who feels entitled to comment on the posters themselves...you are the one who has adopted the sanctimonious vocie. you are the one who has comically decided that PR needs some voice in the wilderness to defend him.

- my posts and others simply stated there were concerns but that he was due his chance. go back and read the friggin thread. do you need an interpreter? is special sign language required?

- no doubt PR is a great human being and a wonderful person. the evidence is pretty clear in that regard. what has that got to do with a millionaire playing professional sports the sole objective of which is to win?

- "please shut up"?!!! what...are you some sort of brown shirt reincarnate? ok....you must be a democrat...I get it........never mind!

[herrmag]

Originally posted by CowboyzSuckAzz

Not really. As you mentioned, it was a scrimmage & not much should be taken seriously about it. FIRST thing you must remember is that there was NO RUNNING GAME to help balance the defense. So, they KNEW he was going to be throwing. It was also NOT a real game situation, even tho they were squaring off against a different team. I don't think there is any reason to be alarmed at all. Not yet, anyway.

I think, more fans are taking Ramsey's scrimmage perfomance more seriously than I think even Ramsey did.

I don't care if it's Pat throwing passes to his nephew in the backyard, there's no reason for him to be missing his receivers which he did A LOT last year and has already shown us in the SCRIMMAGE that he continues to do so. However, I'll try to reserve my judgement until after game 3 of the preseason.

But I'm afraid that I'm goint to see a transition on this board of people saying"oh, it's just a scrimmage, don't worry" to "it's only preseason" and finally to "it's only week 3, everyone calm down". We do this same dance every year.

[Dick Edds]

Originally posted by PREDICTOR

P.S. One reason I specifically used Jeff Hostetler and Chris Chandler and Stan Humphries as EXAMPLES of quarterbacks who later played in Superbowls....is because the FIRST 3 years of those guys careers were anything but PRO Bowl. Those guys were just fighting to make the teams each year.

And yet at one point or another those guys, had the world in the palm of their hands 2 weeks before the Superbowl. And if memory serves, I think Chris and Jeff actually made a pro bowl once or twice.

Ramsey is further ahead at this point than several of those gentlemen. This thread asked for a moratorium on the Ramsey bashing and yet for some reason some of you have simply increased your attacks.

Go figure. You just hate Patrick Ramsey. I like the one guy who said we only have their past history to go on. Well, okay. That means Brunell should now be cut....and that leaves us with Campbell whose history in the NFL includes ZERO completions.

With that in mind, do you have another suggestion for replacing Ramsey? If not...please just shut up....at least until the season starts. If your not a Skins fan...get off the board. If you still want to say you are a fan...then get on board and support Patrick until he loses a game this year.

I don't think getting on here and telling other people to "please just shut up" is very constructive or helpful in trying to expalin your opinions, and it sure as hell is not courteous. I agree with a lot of what you said. I also believe that PR needs to be given the chance to succeed, and because he is such a good character stand-up guy makes a lot of us want to see him succeed even more. But just because others see things a bit differently or feel a bit differently about a player gives you no right to come on here and start telling others what not to do.

I really liked and wanted Jay Schraoeder (sp?) to be the guy to take us to the promise land back in 86/87, especially after his perfomance against the Giants when LT destroyed Theismann's leg and career. But I sure as hell was happy to see D.Williams emerge and have the perfomrance he did in the 87 SB, elevating Gibb's status as a top tier head coach. It will be sad if PR does not succeed, but winning is the bottom line, and I'll take it with Brunell, Ramsey or Campbell. No one person is above the Washington Redskins, and unfortunately the good guys don't always come out on top.

Patrrick Ramsey may have never had a lot of the things other players did,like a consistant coach or a system or an organization that was stable, but nothing in the NFL these days is that consistant, and the only constant is change. It is the way things are now, and if he can't adapt then he and his supporters should not expect the organization and league to create an environment that he can excell in. I am right there with you in wanting him to succeed, but that is because I am a Redskins' fan. I will always be fan of him as a person, but there are bottom lines in the NFL today and it is a business, and we're in the business of trying to win games. Either he does or he doesn't . . . but my point is that this message board is for us to debate and discuss (whether negative or positive) all things Redskins. So you are more than happy to get on here and give your two cents and tell other what they shoud and should not do, but just remember that there will differing opinions. I just thought I'd offer you some unsolicited advice. You be surprised at how many people would follow your lead and discuss this thread in a respectful manner if your post was more about why "YOU" were not going to bash PR and support him, instead of trying to call others out and stereotype the entire board as a "bunch of PR shredders." Just some food for thought. hail to em'!

:dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck

[TheSteve]

Originally posted by herrmag

I don't care if it's Pat throwing passes to his nephew in the backyard, there's no reason for him to be missing his receivers which he did A LOT last year and has already shown us in the SCRIMMAGE that he continues to do so. However, I'll try to reserve my judgement until after game 3 of the preseason.

But I'm afraid that I'm goint to see a transition on this board of people saying"oh, it's just a scrimmage, don't worry" to "it's only preseason" and finally to "it's only week 3, everyone calm down". We do this same dance every year.

No, the only people who were saying it's only 'week 3' were Brunell kissers. You were one of them if I remember correctly.

For some reason, almost everyone who was on the brunell bandwagon until the wheels finally fell off and it broke down FORCING people to climb off is against Ramsey. I find that interesting. It's most of those people who want to proclaim Ramsey a failure already despite the fact that Ramsey has never had the opportunity to start a full season under Gibbs full confidence. It is these same doomsdayers who were the irrational optimists of the season ago and is it any wonder that I can't take them seriously?

As for missing his WR's. both Patten and Moss are new recievers. The Offseason, Scrimmage, and Preseason is what getting your TIMING down are for. Ramsey isn't the only QB in the league throwing bad passes like some of you seem to hysterically infer.

It's too funny that Lenny P's thread a few slots down has 4 pages of bashing, yet most of the Ramsey haters(Of which there are many) seem to share his opinion. Which is it, the offense still sucks and has shown little improvement,only to y'all due to Ramsey's lack of prowess, or we are simply going through the preseason as usual working out the kinks? Make up your mind. Only one will allow you to annoint Ramsey as the next Heath Shuler.

It's obvious Ramsey is the scapegoat for our possible troubles this year(Troubles? What troubles? Apparently there are many).

[atloldskin]

Fans want to win; they will support whatever QB gets them there!

Ramsey is a great guy; I wish him well.

[fansince62]

errr...TheSteve...you apparently don't get it: the issue is winning. who leads us on that path is only marginally important. Leading the team to victory is what is key. it has been a long time since that first Titans game - management imposed chaos or not in the interim. We're waiting for that guy to reappear and do some more magic.

for the umpteenth time - PR is the man at this time. he has had time to mature into a professional QB. This is his time to shine. All are willng to wait for the evidence of a season to draw final judgement. why wouldn't that be the case? we all want a return to glory.

[herrmag]

Originally posted by TheSteve

No, the only people who were saying it's only 'week 3' were Brunell kissers. You were one of them if I remember correctly.

For some reason, almost everyone who was on the brunell bandwagon until the wheels finally fell off and it broke down FORCING people to climb off is against Ramsey.

Forgot? I didn't forget. I still claim EMPHATICALLY that Ramsey lost the job in pre-season last year. LOST IT. Played pathetically and was outshined by a mediocre QB at best. Ramsey gave me no reason to think he deserved a chance to start until Brunell became so piss poor that any alternative was better than keeping him under center. I'm worried the same thing will happen again with Ramsey this year.

As for your overembellishment of comments about "Ramsey Haters".....I'm not sure if you're including me in that group or not, but since you chose to quote me, I'll assume you are. I don't "BASH" Ramsey. I call it like I see it. He played like doo doo in the SCRIMMAGE (and I've emphasized scrimmage in every post I've made about PR). He still overthrew his receivers, or gunned them too hard, lacking the proper touch. He also EYED every receiver he threw to and held on to the ball way too long. These are all the things he's been knocked for doing since the beginning of his career. To say I've given up on Ramsey would be a lie. He has a HELL of an arm. However, to see the same mistakes still being made is, at the very least, disconcerting.

[Skins24]

Fact #1: We would have been 3-13 without Ramsey last year.

Fact #2: We would have been at least 2 games better if Ramsey had started the whole season

Fact #3: Ramsey had a 62% completion percentage. Almost a 10% improvement over his previous years. Wasn't his almost 87% completion percentage against the Giants one of the highest in franchise history (with over 20 pass attempts)?

Fact #4: People seem to be ignoring all of that and basing their current thoughts of Ramsey on a frickin' scrimmage! Not even a preseason game.

[barefoot]

Originally posted by illone

Nobody stuck up for Heath Schuler, or Gus Frerotte. I'm sure a few did but you get the point. Nobody wanted Stan Humphries to stick around for 2-3 more years and "learn the system."

I do remember many pro-Shuler threads here before he was sent packing.

jk

[CHUBAKAH]

Originally posted by TheSteve

No, the only people who were saying it's only 'week 3' were Brunell kissers.

I think that if you asked most people that are fans of this team, you wouldn’t find too many that claimed to be “Brunell kissers”. Those of us that supported Gibbs for keeping Brunell in did so because we knew the answer would be Ramsey. Boy did that change make a huge difference.

[fansince62]

fact#1: we drafted Campbell because the QB position is not locked down as a position of strength for the team - not for depth as some argue.

fact#2: PR needs to step it up this season and lead the team to victory.

fact#3: PR needs to reduce/eliminate some of his short-comings (presented ad nauseum in other threads) this season. do you believe JG expects otherwise?

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by CHUBAKAH

I think that if you asked most people that are fans of this team, you wouldn’t find too many that claimed to be “Brunell kissers”. Those of us that supported Gibbs for keeping Brunell in did so because we knew the answer would be Ramsey. Boy did that change make a huge difference.

If you mean we actually had a chance to throw for over 100 yards in a game.

Yeah.

You don't even count in this discussion because you were a hater before there was reason to hate.

And one can not think someone is the answer and not be a jerk about it.

[herrmag]

Originally posted by Skins24

Fact #1: We would have been 3-13 without Ramsey last year.

Fact #2: We would have been at least 2 games better if Ramsey had started the whole season

Fact #3: Ramsey had a 62% completion percentage. Almost a 10% improvement over his previous years. Wasn't his almost 87% completion percentage against the Giants one of the highest in franchise history (with over 20 pass attempts)?

Fact #4: People seem to be ignoring all of that and basing their current thoughts of Ramsey on a frickin' scrimmage! Not even a preseason game.

Go to webster's and look up the definition of fact. You can then eliminate fact #1 and fact #2.

Again, I have yet to see anyone say that "Ramsey Sucks" blah blah blah. Quit making excuses for him. He's a big boy. When he plays poorly, I for one will damn sure call him on it. When he plays well, I will damn sure call him on it. I'm not a blind homer that thinks my QB's sh!t don't stink.:laugh:

[CHUBAKAH]

Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin

If you mean we actually had a chance to throw for over 100 yards in a game.

Yeah.

You don't even count in this discussion because you were a hater before there was reason to hate.

And one can not think someone is the answer and not be a jerk about it.

Just because I don't carry Ramseys jock strap in my mouth like yourself, it does not make me a hater.

For the very last time assclown, I feel Ramsey does not have the tools to be good enough in the NFL. It does not make me a hater, it makes me Non believer.

For the last time put me on ignor you effin idiot.

[herrmag]

Wow, this thread got ugly pretty quick.

[More Complete]

Everyone is making friends in here I see

[Guest amaprius]

In a scrimmage they use 7-on-7, 4-on-4 and other combinations to test certain things out....so how can you even compare it to a game? Scrimmages count way less than pre-season games and slightly above practices. The only difference between a scrimmage and a practice is that you practice with an opposing team.

[TheSteve]

Originally posted by CHUBAKAH

I think that if you asked most people that are fans of this team, you wouldn’t find too many that claimed to be “Brunell kissers”. Those of us that supported Gibbs for keeping Brunell in did so because we knew the answer would be Ramsey. Boy did that change make a huge difference.

I don't know if you're blind and typing on the computer by some special voice techonology, but I saw marked improvement in the passing game with Ramsey in as opposed to Brunell. Anyone who saids otherwise needs to put down the Hatoraid. Why you want to go through another cycle of quarterback development with Cambell when it is unnecessary is beyond me.

that's right, because you're a 'hater'.