First Date 101 (for men)

[PCS]

Originally posted by SouthernStar

Exactly. The "results of the two acts can't "normally" be compared. Unless you could argue that the womans insensitive actions and remarks (to a perfectly innocent man) could possible damage his psyche so that he might not be able to have sucessful relations in the future. How many men have been ruined by "dominant mothers" or bit*** that they were involved with before?

OK, lets forget the rapoe biut for just a second.

WHY shouldn't the man be "justified" in hauling off and knocking the living crap out of a woman who is PMSed at the time? She didn't "control herself" and he didn't either. Even Steven, I'd say. No permanent damage either way.

You mean aside from the obvious? Tell me Star, when was that last PMS of yours? Seems to me you're speaking from experience here. Seem to know what it's like, ( and no, I don't particularly care to have the mood thing taken out on me either, but then I try to at least be a little sympathetic in that I have no idea what it must be like. Thank God).

[TheDoyler23]

Originally posted by SouthernStar

WHY shouldn't the man be "justified" in hauling off and knocking the living crap out of a woman who is PMSed at the time? She didn't "control herself" and he didn't either. Even Steven, I'd say. No permanent damage either way.

In fact (if you want to blame someone)........WHO started the crap?

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....what?

[dks1240]

Originally posted by SouthernStar

WHY shouldn't the man be "justified" in hauling off and knocking the living crap out of a woman who is PMSed at the time? She didn't "control herself" and he didn't either. Even Steven, I'd say. No permanent damage either way.

everyday i work one on one with women who are beaten physically and emotionally by their significant other....i would LOVE to have them answer this question for you. :doh:

[Westbrook36]

Originally posted by SouthernStar

Exactly. The "results of the two acts can't "normally" be compared. Unless you could argue that the womans insensitive actions and remarks (to a perfectly innocent man) could possible damage his psyche so that he might not be able to have sucessful relations in the future. How many men have been ruined by "dominant mothers" or bit*** that they were involved with before?

OK, lets forget the rape bit for just a second.

WHY shouldn't the man be "justified" in hauling off and knocking the living crap out of a woman who is PMSed at the time? She didn't "control herself" and he didn't either. Even Steven, I'd say. No permanent damage either way.

In fact (if you want to blame someone)........WHO started the crap?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Holy Crap, are you serious?!?! :doh:

[twa]

Just pointing out the obvious for SS

Rape or hitting are physcical abuse, whereas being a ***** is just verbal or at most mental abuse

[Heidenreich]

Originally posted by SouthernStar

WHY shouldn't the man be "justified" in hauling off and knocking the living crap out of a woman who is PMSed at the time? She didn't "control herself" and he didn't either. Even Steven, I'd say. No permanent damage either way.

If a woman is PMSing a I'm catching a little bit of a 'tude, maybe I'll fire an attitude back at her. Maybe we'll yell for a while until one of us walks away. That is no permanent damage either way.

I'm just making sure I'm reading this right, I should be justified & beat the crap out of her? You're kidding right? This has to be a joke. There is no reason to hit a woman EVER. Just the thought of it is getting me crazy.

I don't know what point you're trying to make here, but I was raised to know that you just don't do a thing like that. In fact, I'm getting pretty angry just talking about it. I also know that I should respect my elders, but if I saw you hitting a woman, I wouldn't think twice about clocking you. And that WOULD be justified.......

[SouthernStar]

Originally posted by dks1240

i know what the point is, but also i read it as a comparision between rape and pms. sorry if i read it wrong but that's how i interpreted it.

I just used it as an example to get the woman to see that everyone is responsible for their own actions. I later told her that i thought that rape was a horrible crime.

I see no way that this could have been interpreted as a threat. As a matter of fact, at the time of the conversation, the woman was wearing jeans, tennis shoes, and a loose fitting T-shirt with no makeup. It was philosophical in nature only.

But WHO is to say what will "ruin someone's life"????

A small "white lie" (in court) can result in someone getting 10 years in prison. That could definately ruin someone's life. Is a lie any worse than rape? Normally, you'd say yes, but not in this case. You see, it all depends on the "point of view" of the victim.......

[Westbrook36]

Oh man, this is going to get ugly. :laugh:

[Ghost of]

Some of you are getting way too caught up in the details and not seeing the MECHANICS behind the argument. You may not like the rape comparison, but what I find interesting is that my ex who lived in the Gambia said rape there is ALWAYS blamed on the woman. You see, THERE, men are not held responsible for THEIR actions either. Just as often women are not held responsible here(in certain instances.) It doesn't mean that rape is not a terrible crime. But the point of comparison stands. Stop standing in righteous indignation to an argument that IS NOT BEING made.

Maybe a better comparison(forget trying to include each gender) would be post-partum depression.

Do women get a free pass on all immoral conduct because they are not active and full participants in life?

Women rarely get the death penalty and in many murder cases play the 'woman card' to avoid full responsibility when all accounts and evidence point to them being an EQUAL participant.

Women kill their kids far more often than men do(men are more likely to kill children that are not their own offspring)

Does post-partum depression lead a woman to chase down her kids and drown them one by one? Do we have sympathy for her?

And why do we not have sympathy for the deranged russian immigrant who stabbed his relatives in Sacramento?

It is not the women-haters that have set up this double standard of accountability and humanity.

[OrangeSkin]

Only on ExtremeSkins could a perfectly innocent thread turn into a knock down drag out fight.

[TheDoyler23]

Originally posted by SouthernStar

But WHO is to say what will "ruin someone's life"????

Talk to a person who works for a rape crisis center. The physical damage can very greatly, but the mental damage is enormous.

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by TheDoyler23

Talk to a person who works for a rape crisis center. The physical damage can very greatly, but the mental damage is enormous.

I don't think he was denying that about rape.

Just saying there are other ways that a life is ruined and some of them involve acts that do not, on their face, seem nearly as evil and vicious as a rape.

And maybe some of them are MORE evil(like deliberately setting someone up to be falsely accused of murder, rape or child sexual assault.)

[dks1240]

Originally posted by TheDoyler23

Talk to a person who works for a rape crisis center. The physical damage can very greatly, but the mental damage is enormous.

I too work closely with women who have been raped and you couldnt be more right. Rape can easily ruin someone's life.

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by dks1240

I too work closely with women who have been raped and you couldnt be more right. Rape can easily ruin someone's life.

I might have misread his post, but I don't think SouthernStar denied that.

He was making a point that it's not the only action that someone can take that can ruin a life. And some have suffered these and not been 'ruined.'

It's kind of like Vietnam. Most came back OK. Some did not. Mentioning that fact is not a denial of the tragedy of the most, many, some or few.

[PCS]

Cripes. Orange said it right. This is pathetic. Too many issues with too many agendas on a thread that is supposed to be light hearted. Sad.

[SouthernStar]

Originally posted by Westbrook36

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Holy Crap, are you serious?!?! :doh:

No, of course not. Just using another example that people should control themselves. i used the more "extreme" examples to make folks stop and think. It cuts out all the little "nit-picking" and petty excuses that women sometimes try to interject.

Here is another thought. You say that a man should never hit a woman. What if the woman begins hitting the man FIRST. What if a verbal argument is 'escalated' by the woman into physical violence? Aren't men provided with equal protection under the law?

*I'll bet that the woman who is getting angry (about thinking about a man hitting a woman) wouldn't be in the least upset about thinking about a woman hitting a man.

I say this only to demonstrate that most women are so "sexist' that they never stopp to think about it. Yet, they are constantly ragging on men for being this way.

We are all "human beings". We shouyld all be equal under the law and under the customs of society, too. Control yourself, be responsible for your actions, expect to be treated as you treat others. If you can't do these things, you are a scab on the behind of society.

Being a MAN...or a WOMAN....has nothing to do with it.

[dks1240]

Originally posted by Park City Skins

Cripes. Orange said it right. This is pathetic. Too many issues with too many agendas on a thread that is supposed to be light hearted. Sad.

dont look at me.

i didnt start it.

:no:

[Westbrook36]

I can't think of a situation where I'd hit a woman. Even if she hit me first.

[Ghost of]

As is often the case, a reaction against a perceived injustice often engenders a negative feeling itself.

The guy's solution is beyond acceptable even if it hints at something resembling a "lesson." One can make an observation and even test it out once, without being a complete jerk.

I've also found MOST women I've dated will go Dutch, and in the course of a relationship do not mind paying their share so much. At least, that's what they say...

As always, come up with ways to spot the undesirables and end your contact with them. Men or women, 'friend' or 'lover.'

[dks1240]

Originally posted by SouthernStar

*I'll bet that the woman who is getting angry (about thinking about a man hitting a woman) wouldn't be in the least upset about thinking about a woman hitting a man.

I say this only to demonstrate that most women are so "sexist' that they never stopp to think about it. Yet, they are constantly ragging on men for being this way.

wow. i love these blanket statement and non stop stereotypes!

this might come as a shock to you but personally i think a man has a right to defend himself against a woman hitting him.

blah, im done. im going to sleep to dream about going on a date with a guy who will split the bill with me. (yea, you like how i wrapped that around back to the original topic of the thread)

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by Westbrook36

I can't think of a situation where I'd hit a woman. Even if she hit me first.

Normally, I'd agree, but you also haven't been in a situation which would require you to defend yourself.

Lots of men suffer in silence and get hit with more than fists, but also objects. And I've been accidentally hit by kids, and THAT hurts. A full roundhouse by a 120-150 lb woman is not exactly something you laugh off. This is also a culture that laughs at men in movies and TV getting hit in the crotch while a slap to a woman earns a shocked intake of air.

I'm going to say this once:

Fred Lane.

Dks

That's the problem with a thread like this. It feeds on generalizations even though there are women like you who defy the stereotype. But it doesn't mean the generalization doesn't hold a great deal of truth.

And then all kinds of other feelings get involved because people are operating from certain perspectives that throw the fuel on the fire of their passions on a given subject(s.)

[Heidenreich]

I have been hit by a woman, and I didn't hit back.

Protecting oneself & punching someone are two totally different things.

[Destino]

Southern star has made a few bad analogies I don't think he's saying that it's ok to smack a woman around. Let's keep our head cool and our blood pressure in check and we'll all come out of this thread just fine.

BTW - When you find yourself in a hole, step one is "stop digging"

[dks1240]

Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin

Dks

That's the problem with a thread like this. It feeds on generalizations even though there are women like you who defy the stereotype. But it doesn't mean the generalization doesn't hold a great deal of truth.

And then all kinds of other feelings get involved because people are operating from certain perspectives that throw the fuel on the fire of their passions on a given subject(s.)

oh i totally agree with you here. but i do believe this can easily be prevented by exchanging key words like "all" for "most." it just gets annoying after a few post.

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by Destino

Southern star has made a few bad analogies I don't think he's saying that it's ok to smack a woman around. Let's keep our head cool and our blood pressure in check and we'll all come out of this thread just fine.

Thank you, Des, for being a voice of reason----

finally.