tshile

It’s 7:30!!

The problem is not that the media has run with false narratives through the trial. The problem is that when it happened, the media ran with a bunch of tweets that were unverifiable, posted by people where there was no understanding of reliability. and we discuss this all the time - it doesn’t matter what the original story is or how off base it is, or how good or damning or whatever the retraction is, no one even sees the stupid retraction and everyone only remembers the original story. which is why, even though the trial is over, you still have people who think he brought the gun with him from out of state. Or that his mom dropped him off at the tights. and that is the media’s responsibility because they know that this is how people work and respond to how all this plays out. And they don’t care and hide behind tons of excuses that on an individual instance make sense but at this point it’s simply the way they do business. It never really pays off to rush to judgement if you just an observer. It’s never good to operate from the “least amount of information” side of the spectrum

I don’t trust those forums but if they link to an official site then they do and that’s fine. But yeah if I was doing it all the time I’m sure I’d figure it out and it’d be easy too. Like I said it’s not even an issue for the states I do frequent. But if something was going on in a state I didn’t frequent, I would be super anxious about the idea of grabbing my guns and going there. Because I know how easy it is to cross the law in some states. Some are very different than what I’m used to. I live in an open carry state that’s a shall issue permit state, and in the last election 57% of voters said they had guns in the house. I live in a county where if you don’t assume whoever you’re dealing with has a gun, then you’re a fool. everywhere isn’t like that though.

Reflecting on the case. And other high profile cases over the years… you know as high and mighty and snobby and arrogant as everyone who works in the legal system is about them, their profession, etc… they sure do manage to deliver a clown show more often than not when we actually get to watch them…

Anyone who thinks they can walk around hunting protestors and get away with it because of this case, is an idiot. For one - that’s not what went on here. I get you and others think that - but it’s just not. but two - every states laws are different when it comes to guns and self defense. in fact I consider the idea of crossing state lines with a gun one that causes much anxiety for me. Don’t get me wrong, there’s states I frequent so knowing and staying on top of the laws is easy. but every other state? You’re obligated to follow and understand their laws and there is no excuse about it. And they’re subject to change on a whim. So you have to check them every time. And while Virginia is easy because the Virginia state police are responsible for running a webpage that lays it out, I have no idea what other states do. it’s real ballsy to just up and run into another state with a gun without understanding the laws. Unless you’re one of the people with a permit that allows you to carry everywhere.

Sorry to shift gears but - just heard on WTOp and the arbery case goes to closing arguments Monday. Defense rested yesterday. but also…. that the guy that shot him (or the first guy that shot him, I can’t remember if two people just had guns or if two people shot him) testified that he “was not threatened by him in any way” before he shot… like woah you just sunk your whole claim of self defense. By yourself. Wow… (I think they’re murders but still it’s incredible when someone outs themself on their own accord…)

That’s not really how it works. But you know that.

Right. But that was the exact thing they Zimmerman case hinged on. Hence the whole precedent thing being a bit 🤔 and yeah. I basically have two completely different mindsets on this case. 1 - if you want to factor in that he chose to put himself in a dangerous situation when he didn’t need to, then he’s guilty of murder. 2 murders. And 1 attempted murder. And carrying the gun unlawfully. And being out past curfew. He’s guilty across the board. And if the jury had decided that him putting himself mattered, and ruled that way, I would be ok with it. 2 - if you want to declare it doesn’t matter that he went there and was past curfew, then it was all self defense and at best you’ve got him in the gun possession charge. Which I’m still not sure if that was dismissed because the judge is a dope or because there was legit justification via Wisconsin law. and I could go either way. I would support a jury of 12 citizens in their own state deciding that either way. although if you put me on a jury for a self defense case where the DA/ADA stands up there and with a straight face tells me I should convict because he could have kicked him in the testicles or kneed him in the face… well you’ve lost me for good cause all you really said was you have no concept of self defense and shouldn’t even be involved in this case, much less trusted to guide me on putting someone in prison.

Nah man. Right there with you.

Yeah this idea that police knew he had shot 3 people killing 2 and just let him go cause, whatever, is silly. It’s quite obvious they didn’t realize he was the shooter…

the #freekyle streams went online basically immediately….. so…. They’re obviously amped up for it. Yeah I just don’t think you understand the idea of precedent and self defense. which is fine it’s not like you’re here for discussion, you’re just blowing your opinion all over the place and then declaring it doesn’t matter what your grasp of the facts are cause you’re not the legal system and you just like got your own opinion, man.

meh. They’ve been violent for a while. This one was just one of many violent protests/riots. the #freekyle people are there to egg everyone else on. Rub it in their face. I’m expecting it to be a wild weekend in Kenosha. id prefer to be surprised but I’m guessing it’s gonna get wild

Hey - if you’re gonna start throwing around things like naive, you’re gonna have to first stop being one of the “I don’t know any of the facts but formed my opinion and now want to tell everyone about it” people also you may want to look up the definition of the word precedent

The only precedent being sent is that it’s not cut and dry the just because you put yourself in a dangerous spot doesn’t mean you forfeit your right to self defense. which btw isn’t really a precedent because that’s what the Zimmerman case hinged on too. and I’m sure that wasn’t a precedent either. lots of silliness being said in the wake of the verdict.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/zac-stacy-arrested_n_61976dd2e4b0451e54f8166f he was arrested in florida last night current charges add up to potentially 20 years.

Is it possible it just took a few weeks to figure them out?

He was a late round steal… …for like 3 weeks he’s been IR/bench since then

ive seen this said a lot and it’s all over the place. News. Podcasts. Here. So im not trying to pick on you. but I will say that if your target audience is moderate middle class people, I do not think that plan sells as well as you all seem to think so. I realize there’s polls about who knows about it. But i have a gut feeling some key demos know about it and just don’t like the idea. I know about it. I get it. I don’t want it. And I’m not sure it’s the right thing to do doesnt change my vote. But I bet it doesn’t help Dems as much as they think it should.

Those dude is trashing my fantasy teams god damnit

Yup. you guys have always joked about people who carry guns thinking they’ll stop a shooter and how they’re likely to be shot by the police show up and mistake them. And I, and I believe some others, responded by saying yup, it’s a risk you take. it’s a risk you accept when you carry. Just like you accept you might make a bad decision, thinking you’re right, and wind up in jail. It’s part of the deal. which is why picking up the dudes at-15 and holding it was dumb. Once he’s down you put your gun away and stand like a statue with your hands up when they show up, pray they don’t shoot you, and just go with the flow. You can explain who you are and what happened once the police feel they’ve secured the area and everyone’s emotions come down a few notches.

I believe our resident lawyers have told us to never try to glean anything out of how long the jury is talking or what they request. @PartyPosse and they are allowed to consider lesser charges I believe? I also agree it’s a good thing they take a while. even if it ultimately ends as a hung jury it’s good to know that they at least took it seriously. But deadlocked/hung wouldn’t surprise me in the least on this one.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/11/18/ex-jets-rb-zac-stacy-on-the-run-after-video-shows-him-violently-assaulting-ex-girlfriend/ Edit: the title is the story. So I’m not quoting the article. And the video is horrifying. So. Watch at your own risk I believe his current status is still on the run. there’s a link to the video. The description is apt, maybe enough could be worded stronger. I don’t know if I’ve just seen too many of them or if it’s just this one but by the end I felt the need to just throw up. I do not understand how someone gets to that level.

Also. It sounds like the judge has OK’d the jury looking at a video from the FBI drone that, for whatever reason, is not the same video originally provided to the defense and entered into evidence during trial, but is a much clearer video. The original video was more grainy. I have a problem with that. The defense is supposed to get to see the evidence that will be entered. They didn’t get to see this. Furthermore you’re now letting the jury look at evidence that wasn’t in the trial. Feels wrong. And like an obvious case for appeal if there is a conviction. this case is jacked up from start to finish so it’s not like I want to die on this hill, but geez if that doesnt feel super inappropriate … I’m having a hard time thinking of what circumstances would justify that as OK.

I’m going to go ahead and guess that all the flaunting over and obvious not guilty verdict (Just saw an article that Gaetz said he’d hire rittenhouse to work on his staff after the not guilty verdict) that he’s going to be found guilty and get a bit sentence. just feels like the world works that way. I wouldn’t be counting my chickens before they hatched if I was the defendant. As much as we’ve argued over self defense, it’s quite possible 12 people who live in Wisconsin decide they won’t tolerate someone out of state coming in to play little toy soldier in their streets and murder people.

What’s not helping is the numerous reports of clinics giving the wrong vaccines to children. Feels like a daily occurrence on wtop a place in Loudoun decided to take adult vaccines and break them out into child size doses. They measured it correctly based on the specs of the two doses but what they didn’t know is that the makeup of the vaccine is such that doing this ensures you cannot guarantee anyone got the appropriate amount t of the part that matters - so now all those kids have been told by the health department that, consult with your pediatrician, but you need to wait a few weeks and start the entire process over. fairfax county had a place just flat out give them adult vaccines I believe. As did a place in Montgomery county. they’re color coded. One is purple one is orange. So you don’t do this crap. Yet it’s happening.