mistertim

So you're telling me if I had a room full of guys wearing regular street clothes, all of them between 5'9 and 6'2 or so and in excellent shape, you'd be able to instantly pick out who were the professional athletes and who were just people in really good shape? I'm skeptical.

Outside of basketball and sumo wrestling, most elite sports players look pretty mortal (though point guards tend to be pretty mortal size). If you didn't know who they were you probably wouldn't notice Aaron Rodgers or DeAndre Hopkins at an airport. Same with Mike Trout or Juan Soto. Same with most UFC fighters. They'd just look like regular guys who were in good shape.

You're not Giggity for Gilbert?

I think Heinicke going into 2022 as the starter is definitely possible, but it depends on what we do in the draft and FA/trade...as well as what kind of QB we draft. Obviously if we somehow managed to trade for Carr (I still say it's nonsense and he's not going anywhere) then obviously he'd be the starter. If we draft a 1st round QB who're more "pro-ready" then he could get the nod. If not, then the 1st rounder might sit and learn with Heinicke as the bridge. I'd say Pickett is probably the most pro-ready of the top prospects, with Willis being the least. Corral and Howell I'd say are in the middle.

Yeah Zappe reminds me a bit of Heinicke, but not quite as athletic. Heinicke is a better scrambler, but Zappe has a slightly better arm...though Zappe's arm is still pretty meh. Both are gamers who play well in big situations, but neither have big time natural talent. I think Zappe can be an NFL QB, but he's likely more of a backup than a starter. Who knows though...anything is possible.

I sort of doubt the FO would want to pick up a 1st round QB and then not play him until his 4th year. IMO if we're talking about getting Carr you either go with him or a 1st round rookie, but not both. Carr wouldn't be a bridge QB, he'd be our hope at a franchise QB who could play for us for the next 5-8 years. Taking a QB in the 1st and then just sitting him for a long time sounds like a waste of a draft pick because by the time he'll start playing (probably 3 or 4 years at the very earliest unless Carr has an injury or is just horrible) he'll be pretty close to the end of his rookie contract.

Yeah I loved how that post was trying to say Heinicke is just a regular Joe like...and then throws out two of the best to ever play their positions/sports. Heinicke is not like either of those guys at all (and neither are we).

Carr is definitely an upgrade over Heinicke or Allen. He's played like a top 10 QB plenty of times, but he's at the very least a 10=15 level guy. Heinicke is IMO a 15-20 guy at best. Now, you can certainly argue that the draft capital and contract for Carr might not be worth it for the amount of upgrade he gives us, but I don't think there's much doubt that he'd be an upgrade. If Carr goes on the trading block he'll net at least a 1st round pick; probably that and some change. If Heinicke went on the trading block we'd probably get a 5th for him; maybe a 4th if we're lucky. Honestly, I'm a bit torn on the Carr thing. If we went after him that would mean we're out our 1st rounder and we'd be banking on Carr as the guy for the next 5+ years. Personally I'd probaby be more inclined towards a rookie, but if there isn't a guy that our coaches and FO really love, then I'd much rather go with Carr than reach for a guy in the draft who we don't really love just because we need a QB upgrade. That being said, I doubt Carr goes on the trading block. There were rumors about it early this year as well and it never materialized. I think at this point it's just sports writers trying to get clicks. Agree that we're absolutely not getting Rodgers, Wilson, or Watson. Those are complete non-starters so I don't really even bother thinking about those scenarios.

I somewhat disagree about the idea that none of these guys ever get a shot or it's just about biases. Are high round picks going to get more chances and more leeway than late round or undrafted guys? Sure. But that doesn't mean the late/undrafted guys don't get a chance. They get training camp, preseason, etc. That's how guys like Brady, Romo, or whichever other late/undrafted QB got on the roster. They showed during camp and preseason that they deserved a roster spot. Wilson was a 3rd round pick after Seattle had just brought in Matt Flynn on a big money contract. They mostly picked up Wilson to be a backup or possible developmental guy. But he played great in camp and won the job in his rookie season. Brady was a 6th round pick but showed enough to get a roster spot. Romo showed enough to get a roster spot as well. Is there an element of luck as well? Good timing? Sure. But I think it's a big stretch to assume that just because a guy never got a chance to start games he never had a chance at all. And for every Romo or Brady there are probably 50 late round or UDFA QBs who do nothing. I have a hard time believing that it's just because they didn't get a shot. It's probably more likely that they just weren't that good.

Nah, mostly just annoyed in general. Was looking forward to just having a good time since I rarely go to games. I can't make it Tuesday due to work. Oh well.

I get that you really love underdogs (I do too), but you seem to take for granted the hypothesis that the only reason these late round and undrafted guys don't make it is because they never get a shot. Isn't it at least as possible that they're just not that good?

This is annoying. I was going up to Philly this weekend to meet up with my business partner and some of his friends to go to the game. So much for that plan.

This is all possible, though are we sure that Rivera really wants another Cam? Cam only really had one year where he was anything more than a mediocre QB. Yes, the threat of him running definitely changed how defenses played them and helped them out, but at the end of the day it's still a passing league and IMO having a running QB is only going to get you so far if he isn't a top notch passer as well, and I don't think Willis fits that bill. That doesn't mean he can't become a really good passer, but I think it could take a while. Rivera praising mobile QBs is IMO different than saying he wants a running QB. I think those two things are different. Wilson, Allen, Mahomes, Murray, to an extent Rodgers...those guys are all mobile QBs who can make things happen with their legs, but the primary threat they pose is through the air. Jackson is a running QB who's only a mediocre passer. I think Willis is more in the mold of Jackson at this point. And I'm not convinced that's what Rivera actually wants, regardless of him having it with Cam.

It's definitely possible, but I absolutely do not want to trade up for him. If we picked him where we are then I'd be ok with it. Some team may hope they're getting the next Lamar Jackson (though Jackson's final year of college was better than Willis), but it's a huge gamble because Willis IMO just isn't that good of a passer so it would need to be a team that will either be super patient with a really raw passer or open to doing what the Ravens did with Jackson and completely reimagining their offense to fit a running QB. I'm just not sure that we fit either of those. I don't think the team, owner, or fans have the requisite patience and I have doubts that Turner would completely turn his offense upside down. Adding in more RPO stuff? Sure. But completely re-doing it for a running QB? I find that dubious.

Before the Trump era if anyone in either party said anything even close to this they would have been immediately (and correctly) ostracized and likely would never have been able to run for any office again. Now it's basically just standard fare for the GOP.

There's no doubt that Willis has tons of upside with his arm and running abilities, but teams will have to weigh that against the tape and how big of a learning curve they think he'll have. And his tape this season has been a very mixed bag. Beat up on some crappy teams, but against decent defenses he showed spotty accuracy and poor decision making. Early in the season he was considered a potential top 5 pick but things went south and he had some really bad games. I'd be pretty surprised if that didn't affect the draft boards of most teams. I agree that Willis will probably still be a 1st round pick, but I wouldn't be completely shocked if he lasted until the 2nd. I had him higher on my own QB board earlier in the season but after watching him struggle and put up some pretty bad games I'd take Corral, Pickett, and Howell before him. I'd consider Ridder before him as well.

I think it's absolutely possible. He's had a disappointing season, given the hype and how he started. He mostly beat up on crappy teams and then struggled quite a bit when up against decent defenses. I've seen some mocks now with him not even going in the 1st. Some with him near the middle or the bottom of the 1st. He definitely doesn't seem to be talked about as a top 10 pick much anymore. Someone will likely pick him in the 1st, but it's certainly not a foregone conclusion. I guess it's possible that a team will fall in love with his running and athleticism and take a huge gamble on him in the top 10 but I think it's increasingly unlikely.

I'd be very surprised if we have to move up for Willis. I think he's basically a fringe 1st rounder at this point. He's had a very mediocre year with 24 TDs and 12 INTs, including 3 games with 3 interceptions. I get that he doesn't have much as far as supporting cast, but he's also mostly played against pretty subpar teams. The crappy supporting cast thing would mean more if he was going up against good teams every week. Does he have high upside from a pure talent perspective? Sure. There's no doubting his physical skills and running ability. But as a passer, while he has a cannon arm, he's got very up and down accuracy and some very questionable decision making at times. He's a one read and run guy who hasn't played well when he's gone up against decent defenses who know how to defend that sort of QB and have the personnel to do it. I think he could be a good NFL QB but I also think his learning curve in the league is going to be very steep. I wouldn't hate it if we picked him where we draft, but I'm not interested at all in moving up for him. There's a possibility he could even be available in the 2nd round as once you get past a certain point in the 1st most teams picking don't need a QB (though someone could move back up into the 1st for him from their 2nd round spot).

Watching Trump and the Republican party is like watching an incredibly toxic codependent relationship. Except in this example both the giver and the taker in the relationship are absolutely horrible human beings, so you don't really feel bad for anyone. You just sort of watch the dumpster fire and shake your head.

Who "despises" Heinicke? Seriously, can you guys please stop with this straw man nonsense?

From what I saw in the article it seems he has in the past had issues with rich kids who come from money and their "privilege".

Definitely. One of the defining tenets of Trumpism is being an ignorant **** and being proud of it. The less they understand something the easier it is to caricaturize it and hate it. Keep it super super simple, black and white, us and them, good and evil. Anything more subtle is just the liberals trying to brainwash you.

Yeah that's kind of an odd one. Just off the top of my head I'd have a hard time seeing it be some huge issue, even though the guy who wrote the article calls it a major red flag. It don't really get the feeling from reading that that Corral has a problem with rich people and that would somehow impact how he plays. The vast majority of NFL players didn't come from money; usually it's the opposite. That being said, it's probably something I'd ask about if I were a GM. We've seen things that didn't "seem" like big red flags end up being major issues.