mistertim

This is one of the issues with the underdog QBs that people really love and who are genuinely good stories, but who are usually just not good enough at the end of the day. Some people latch on to these guys and convince themselves early on that this QB can be the savior. We saw it with the Cult of Colt too. Then they're emotionally invested in that player and when that happens it's mostly downhill, because good luck fighting the limbic system with logic.

Sorry, that was my bad. I meant the character Dog from Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. This is clearly a man who knows that Taylor Heinicke isn't a starting QB.

You're banging your head against a brick wall, man. These are the same peeps who earlier in the season would post some stats showing that Heinicke had a better QBR over a certain stretch than Mahomes and then say "I mean...I'm not comparing him to Mahomes or anything...but, I'm just saying! I'm just saying!" when they clearly were trying to make some sort of assertion of how good they thought Heinicke was vs a true elite NFL QB. It's sad but unfortunately I have a feeling this insanity won't end until TH is no longer on the team. So we'll most likely have to deal with it on and off for the next year.

Have you looked at the guys below him? 4 are rookies so they generally get a bit of a mulligan their first season. Then you have Big Ben who's 80 years old and should have retired 2 years ago. You have Darnold who's trash and always been trash and has absolutely no place in the NFL. Then there's Mayfield and Goff. Mayfield has been injured a fair amount but he's such a seemingly streaky player it's hard to say. Goff is...well...just Goff. Meh. I'm not saying TH has no place in the league or even on the WFT, but he just doesn't have the talent to be a full time NFL starter. (Most) fans know it. The FO knows it. The coaches know it. Dog and cats know it.

Are you mistaking Trubisky for another QB? He's 6'2 220. A somewhat shorter than average but moderately sized QB. Cam is 6'5 250. There's no comparison between them. I really don't get the Trubisky fascination. He's a mediocre QB with a decent arm, decent mobility but who struggles mightily with deep ball accuracy and who has admitted that he has issues reading defenses. Why is this attractive to some? What exactly makes some believe that all Trubisky, who's a 5 year NFL vet, needs is some good "coaching up"? Can we please stop with this crappy QB reclaimation stuff? I'd be ok with Trubisky as a brief bridge as long as we draft a 1st round rookie this year, but that's all. Nothing more.

Figures you would ignore the entire meat of my post and then just throw in the drive by nonsense. Cheers, bro.

What are you even talking about? What "excuses" do I have "against" TH? He hasn't had to deal with much more than any other QB does. Every team has injuries. Every team has COVID issues. Every team has other teams that can game plan against them. Every team has to deal with some units not always performing as well as others. Why is Heinicke suddenly the snowflake who has to be coddled and given a pass for every single thing by some people? I've praised TH when he's done good things and played well, but there hasn't been much to praise the last several weeks. It's over. He's done as the starter. He's a great guy and a great story, but not a starting NFL QB. Time to move on.

There was zero reason to start Allen in a meaningless game, other than be an asshole to TH. Heinicke did next to nothing this game. He had a couple of good throws, some bad ones, and an INT that was caught but then that Terry somehow managed to jar loose at the very end. We won because the run game was gashing them and because Fromm is horrible. But yes I know. It's everyone else's fault that Heinicke hasn't been great. It's COVID's fault. It's the receivers' fault. It's the defense's fault. It's the coaches' fault. It's because the other team illegally had people on the field to play against him. It's because he's the leagues oldest rookie. It's because the Illuminati were conspiring against him. Have you added anything else to your list of excuses yet? Just stop. Please. It's borderline embarassing at this point.

What would be the point of randomly throwing Allen in there in a meaningless game? It would be a total dick move. Just let TH finish his one starting season with a bit of dignity. Everyone knows we're moving on from him as a starter. To Taylor Heinicke for being a great story and a great dude who puts his all into playing whenever he's out there: To the coaching staff for realizing Taylor Heinicke doesn't have the talent to be a NFL starter and for deciding to move on:

Ron if he wants to keep his job, most likely. Only other avenue I can think of would be if we somehow managed to land Carr or Wilson in a trade. Signing some mediocre reclaimation project like Trubisky and Mariota and hoping for anything but mediocrity from them is a fool's errand.

If you listen to Ron's recent interview among other things said prior, it's clear that the coaching staff don't see Heinicke as the guy. It's not exactly a secret that they're looking to go hard for a QB in some way this offseason. Unless we somehow completely strike out in trades, FA, and the draft, then I don't see Heinicke being the starter next season. He's a backup.

Trubisky is 27 years old and a 5 year NFL veteran. If he needs "coaching up" like a rookie at this point then that in itself should be a red flag. Pass unless we bring him in for cheap and also draft a QB in the first round.

Oh...duh. I thought he was posting a tweet of a current board. Didn't check the date on it.

Er...Spencer Rattler isn't going to be in the 2022 draft.

Yeah I really don't think Heinicke is in the team's plans as a future starter. If it's not Trubisky it will be someone else most likely, whether in FA or via trade. Though I also hope they don't reach like crazy in the market out of desperation. For me, as long as we draft a QB, I'm good (unless the unlikely happens and we get Wilson via trade). If we also get a decent FA guy who could be a bridge for the rookie, that's fine too...again, as long as we don't overpay. If we completely strike out in FA and the QB we draft isn't ready to start, then I'd be fine with TH. What I definitely don't want is the team picking up a guy like Trubisky and thinking he's their future. Trubisky is a completely mediocre QB, though he also is an upgrade to Heinicke even if only because he has a pretty good arm.

Honestly, I think it's theoretically possible to take almost any game and find some way to make a case they want to make for almost any player, mostly because of those "what if's" "If this didn't happen, this didn't happen, this went better, and this changed, then it would have been different" Yes, but those things didn't change. And we're not the only team that has "what if's"...the other team does as well. So if the Packers somehow got rid of most of their negative plays as well then they likely would have put up 40+ points on us. They were the better team. Our offense moved the ball ok but was still pretty stagnant overall and scored 10 points, which is enough to win almost no games...especially vs a potent offense helmed by Rodgers. Our defense wasn't great, but they held a team that was averaging 30+ per game to 24. Our offense scored 10 points against a defense that was allowing an average of 20+ at the time.

With regards to Wilson, I'm fine with moving him from "impossible" to "possible, but extremely unlikely", but like I said I don't want us to get into a place where over time we're increasingly convincing ourselves (without any tangible evidence) that Wilson could come here and then we end up downtrodden when it doesn't happen. That's why I tend to focus more on realistic scenarios. As far as Garafolo, I agree that he's usually a pretty solid source. But as you noted, this isn't something where he's getting actual information from people and passing it on. He's basically just talking about his instincts on the matter. Which shouldn't be discounted, but IMO also shouldn't be given the same weight as actual information ("I talked to a source close to Wilson and his agent, and WFT has been added as a possibility", or something like that). As others have noted, I think the biggest sticking point to players coming here now is Dan and the team reputation in general. I agree that Rivera and the new FO/coaching staff have way more appeal and respect around the league than our coaches/FO in times past. But that also can't change the fact that around the league we're still regarded as having the worst owner in the NFL, the worst facilities in the NFL, and are just sort of regarded as a joke.

That wouldn't be anywhere near enough to land Wilson. In this scenario it would probably be two 1st round picks plus Payne/Sweat at the very minimum. He's an elite SB winning future HoF QB. He's not young, but he just turned 33 not long ago, and in QB years nowadays that's not old; he probably has a good 5 years left at least. There's no way a 1st plus one decent player would seal that trade. Seattle would be like:

I'm really not trying to be "negative" about the Wilson thing, I think it's just being realistic. It's certainly not impossible (my .0001% figure was more meant to be absurdist overstatement for effect, but I probably failed on that one), however I just don't want us to get into that incremental zone where we first convince ourselves that there's a tiny chance. Then we convince ourselves a there's a bit more and a bit more and then by the time trade deadlines come around there are people convinced that we're going to land Wilson and then we find out that it was never even close. Just feels like torturing ourseleves and setting ourselves up for a letdown. I'd love to have Wilson here, but I think the chances are incredibly tiny that it happens. He'd have to not only add us to his short list for whatever reason but then we'd also have to make the best offer and seal the trade. And as I noted there's absolutely no way that we'd be the only team blowing up Wilson and his agent to try and squirm our way onto his list. Now, maybe what @Skinsinparadiseread is true, and that Wilson really isn't all that inflexible when it comes to his short list. But that's also a double edge sword because if he's flexible enough to be ok with Seattle trading him to us, it stands to reason that he'd be flexible enough to be ok with plenty of other teams. So then that adds tons of brand new bidders into the arena and we'd probably end up having to make an absurd offer to land him. In that situation we all know by now (via words and actions) that Rivera will go for a guy he likes but that he's also pretty disciplined when it comes to his limit for the trade.

The thing is...both Wilson and the Seahawks hold cards in this situation. Let's assume that, as you say here, Ron bugs Wilson and his agent so much that he relents and puts WFT on his list of teams (even if it's just to shut them up). That doesn't mean he's coming here. There would probably be another 4 teams at least on the list who may all end up bidding against each other. Seattle also doesn't have to trade a guy just because he says he wants a trade. Either way, to me this is all just pie in the sky wishful thinking. There have been several reports that we're definitely not on Wilson's current list and I don't think WFT blowing up his and his agent's phones and telling them how much they love him is going to suddenly change his mind. I'm sure there are plenty of other teams calling and saying the exact same stuff. @Skinsinparadisesaid he sees the chance going from zero to 5% but I think that's too generous. I'd say if it went anywhere it may have gone from zero to .0001% or so.

Thank god. At least it sounds like Turner is not interested in having a running QB. His main thing is the ability of a QB to beat you with their arm. The athleticism to move and extend plays is a huge bonus and important, but it's secondary. I wonder if that moves Willis out of their line of sight. Or maybe they think he can change from a running QB to a pass first QB in the NFL?

Agreed. I think it's extremely unlikely that LV will deal Carr this offseason. The only way I could see it is if it was part of a larger trade for Wilson, Watson, or Rodgers. I could see something like two 1sts + Carr for one of those guys.

Yeah I'm clearly beating a dead horse here, but I'll say it again: we need to stop with these fantasies of Wilson, Watson, or Rodgers coming to WFT. They're not coming here. The sooner we wean ourselves off of those pipe dreams the better.

Paloffs is not now.

@skinny21 I'm not going to respond point by point, but you had plenty of well thought out views there. Some I disagree with somewhat, some I agree with somewhat. But at the end of the day, the main thing that matters is what the coaches think of Heinicke. From what we've heard recently (from Ron directly in a new interview and from "insiders" earlier on), Ron is pretty openly (yes @zskinsI said "openly" again; feel free to insert a gay joke here) gunning for a QB and acknowledges that Heinicke isn't the guy. So I'm guessing by the time the 2022 season rolls around, this debate will all be academic, as Heinicke will be the backup most likely.