skinny21

Regarding the receivers, I have to wonder how much of the problem there has to do with surrounding factors making their job harder. Not absolving the receivers though (Dotson’s drops especially). One dimensional offense (no reason to bite on PA) Generally poor pass pro (can drop more in coverage and can be more aggressive on the shorter routes) New system (I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Pringle has looked good for us, though a part of that could also be pure vet savvy and experience on broken plays w/ Mahomes) TEs aren’t a threat (so no extra help needed) Howell still learning to read defenses, leverages, etc, while also still getting acclimated to the offense (no knock on him, NFL D is more complex, this system has a lot to it, and he’s not getting help from other areas) Crowder’s new to the team and Brown just isn’t very good Backs and TEs pretty often having to either stay in to block or chip

Tightrope surgery? Sounds risky.

I think they (now) need a DE on top of the 1-2 linebackers they’ve needed. Of course, going into next season we’ve got several Dlinemen hitting FA, along with Curl and Fuller (and needing linebackers). I’m of the opinion that the coaching is the biggest problem right now though. Not that I think Del Rio is a bad DC, but I think he’s struggling fitting the pieces together and is caught in a trap of thinking that since most of the guys have been with him for a good while, he can play around a bunch.

I agree with SIP’s assessment that Wylie will be pretty consistently solid, then suddenly have a massive failure (I guess that goes against the definition of “consistent”, lol). Not sure what that’s all about. In terms of giving up sacks/pressures, I do wonder how much impact other factors have had on his performance/numbers… 1) our scheme - the amount we throw, the lack of running, and style of protections - 2) questionable protection calls from Gates (and possibly Howell, but he’s young), 3) our backs/TEs still learning the system, 4) Howell holding the ball at times (especially early on), 5) as well as playing next to an inexperienced G in Cosmi. With that said, Wylie’s been in this system, and it’s apparent that he gets absolutely abused 1 on 1 at times. Hard to imagine his numbers would be significantly better accounting for those other factors. Have to upgrade there for sure. For me, it’s OT in round 1 (assuming we can swing it), sign a high end LB and still look to the draft for another, draft a high end TE, try to find a complementary receiver and (as you put it) dynamic back, land a well regarded G to compete with Paul, and then anything else we can add - corner, a DL, another TE/receiver/back, etc.

I might generally disagree about RB (though McCaffrey is an exception, IMO) and I’m not sure that IDL belong in that group of relatively cheaper positions, but… I do agree with your general point. I’ve especially been thinking for a while now that linebacker is one spot for sure I’d pay good money toward this offseason. Sure, we can stand to add to the secondary and DL, but a stud LB in particular would go a long way toward elevating this group. Go ahead and draft a guy too. And yeah, I’m hoping we do all we can to resign Curl. Also agree that we need to beef up our IOL and add to the TE room. Sidenote to that, I wouldn’t be cutting Logan - IMO it’d be somewhat like the Moses situation.

So a guy we draft in 2024 could be a Command Center panelist in 20 years? That’s some serious forward thinking…

There’s an argument that blue chip LBs, Cs and TEs (maybe guard too) are more likely to be found in that later range. For us though, with our need at tackle, it would be a tough sell to move back…

Not the first time for us unfortunately 😔

To me, that play is almost all on Gates. DT cuts across his face so Gates should be putting his left hand on him and focusing on the gap the DT left behind. Instead he fully engages the DT and misses the blitzing LB as a result. I don’t put blame on Howell, but he also arcs his drop toward where the Giants are showing 3 rushers against our two OL. A straight drop (if Gates picks up the blitzer) and he’s got the quick throw to the back in the flat one on one vs a backer. Probably gains positive yards and gets a lot more if he gets free of the backer. Perhaps if Howell drops straight back he hits the hot route (and likely gets smoked in the process) even w/o Gates’ mistake, but again, I can’t put the blame on Howell when Gates let his guy go free. The TE moves across the line to the numbers mismatch (one of the rushers winds up dropping though)… maybe if he stayed more square to the LOS he sees the blitzer and slows him down? IMO though, he read it right initially at least. Point being, although the whole play looks like a fiasco, it’s one player making one bad play that causes the breakdown. No telling if Howell executes properly if the blitzer is picked up of course. I would like to see him getting to his hot route quicker/more consistently in general.

Yeah, that’s at least 3 deep balls Sam should have put more to the sideline - probably fairly easy catches if he does.

Yeah, he doesn’t always live up to his name… 😁

I can’t say I noticed Lucas out there once, save from when they first announced Leno’s tragedy (god that’s awful 😔)… and that’s not a bad place to be as an olineman IMO.

And allows the opposing pass rush to tee off on him (as if our oline could stop any pass rush). edit: I actually wanna expand on that point. Our defense being terrible also gives the opposing defense plenty of rest. So Howell is dealing with defenses that are rarely tired out, a bad oline, an ineffective ground game, receivers that apparently aren’t getting much separation. And on top of that, he’s often had to come from behind, he’s inexperienced, and in a new offense with a play caller that is also inexperienced. Talk about the deck being stacked against a qb…

To be fair, if we played a better qb than Ridder, our gameplan might have shifted away from focusing on stopping the run. And if Atlanta had a better qb and a top notch run game, they’d probably have an elite offense… which we wouldn’t be stopping anyways. And it surely didn’t help that our offense kept giving the ball back to Atlanta late. That’s not to say the defense doesn’t deserve any criticism of course.

Not sure how we can put a ceiling on Howell yet. Not as inexperienced as he is, with a porous oline, in a new offense, an ineffective run game and a struggling defense. Not when the worst things you can say about him is he takes too many sacks, needs to get more consistent about protecting himself and is 6’ tall. Way too early. And on the other side of the ledger, he’s accurate, can make all the throws, doesn’t get rattled, learns from mistakes, is a solid athlete, tough, a hard worker, and has zero character concerns. The real questions (IMO) are - can he protect himself consistently (longevity concerns), and can he get comfortable enough in an offensive system and read defenses quickly enough to speed up his reads/throw with anticipation more consistently.

Feel a little weird quoting myself, but… I noticed Mayo exactly once - defending a pass in the EZ of all things. Hudson flashed. It’ll be interesting to see how many snaps those two played. Toohill looked good, Ridgeway looked good vs the run and (similar to Mayo), had an improbable play tipping the ball outside the tackle box. I kind of wanna catch the play again to see why/how he wound up out there. Didn’t notice Jones (might have been inactive with Obada returning? St Juste on London, wasn’t pretty, but he had at least those two that were wrenched out of his grasp. Was his int in the EZ vs London? Didn’t notice. Butler with a td saving tackle, but once again letting a guy get behind him. Dude has got to figure out how to stay over the top. Blah. Overall, a tough performance. Kudos for the 2 4th down stops, the stop on the 2pter and of course the ints. And doing that with the offense performing completely ineffectually for most of the 3rd and 4th quarters, against an O that looks to wear you down. Still not good enough though IMO.

We ended the game going what, 0 for 9 on 3rd down? The defense could have used a lot more help from the O in the 2nd half.

I mentioned a week or 2 ago I like Rodriguez as a change up to Robinson, so was glad to see that work a bit. As @KDawg mentioned, I can kind of see what EB is doing, but running on 2nd and 10, 1st and 20… not the way I’d go (though on occasion you gotta break your tendencies).

I’ll add that if you look at a guy like Purdy, while young/inexperienced, he had the benefit of most other offensive players having experience in the system. And though the qb is the most important piece, having guys with a deeper understanding of what the offense is trying to do - all of the nuances on a play-by-play basis, including dealing with coverages, leverages, creating space for others, etc., can only help.

Relating to this point, it’s interesting (to me anyway), but I feel like on one hand, we might look a lot more steady/consistent on offense if we’d retained Turner (even if I wasn’t a fan of his). Less pressure on the oline to pass protect, less pressure/fewer hits on Howell. On the other hand, with EB I think we’re seeing sped up development from Howell, and a much more explosive offense (mostly). Bit of a question though as to which would have been better in the long run. Howell under Turner might not have prevented the next regime from chasing a qb, but who knows. Semi-sidenote: Turner’s offense (including Howell being further along in it vs learning a new O) might have meshed better with our D from last year, but given how much our D is struggling, EB’s might be a better fit. Of course maybe the consistency under Turner would have put less pressure on the D this year. Worth noting that Turner was pretty pass happy until we made the shift(s) midseason to a ground and pound attack.

I expect a lot of 5 man fronts, Curl to be in man coverage on Pitts pretty often. If we do play man, I feel like St Juste is the best fit against London. Personally, I’d consider playing Mayo a bunch this week (probably our best LB in run defense), and utilizing Hudson in a Joker role at times, similar to what he played in college. Toohill should probably get plenty of reps as a plus run defender, ditto Ridgeway, especially as a nose in 5 man fronts. Maybe put Butler into shallow zones more often to use his speed to blitz and/or to try to beat blockers on run plays… I don’t really trust him deep at this point. Seems counterintuitive to get Jones a good amount of snaps - I could be wrong, but I get the sense he’s better pass rusher than run defender - but in a 5 man front, take away contain responsibilities and let him get after the backfield (letting him and Toohill keep Young/Sweat fresh). I could be way off base with all of that, but regardless, I’d like to see us using guys to their strengths vs forcing them to fill a role they’re not necessarily ready/cut out for. Easier said than done though if that forces scheme tweaks that the D hasn’t practiced much.

True^

Absolutely. But… I still think it’s interesting. We always hear about drafts getting judged by the number of starters from the class. And of course, Philly is seen as having a special FO. I also think a lot of us thought we had a pretty strong roster, even if we had serious questions about the OL and LBs (and Howell, at the time). On the other hand, there’s the idea of the draft serving more so as a pipeline of talent. So adding to deeper units for example, while it might be disappointing in the short term, can bear fruit long term, not to mention ST. This would obviously include drafting guys in preparation of losing players, as well as improving competition/depth (and ST). Not that it’s inherently an either/or proposition. And to be clear, the following is not to defend this past draft or anything - I’m pretty disappointed in how it played out. Its possible the draft class looks a lot better in the long run… not that I’m holding my breath on that front. Specific to this team, we (the fans at least) have placed a lot of emphasis on immediate starters and needs. And to this point, before Stromberg starting playing guard in the preseason games (and holding his own), there was a lot of negativity about drafting OL guys that the staff didn’t “plan” to play this year. And of course, you have situations like we have with Martin - he hasn’t earned a starting spot, but it’s looking like he might indeed be getting starting reps. Not exactly what we mean by landing a starter in the draft (unless he shocks us all and plays well of course). Again, specific to this team, we’re apparently also running into coaching/scheme issues in relation to our draft. Broadly speaking - we’re not running the ball much so Rodriguez hasn’t factored in, we’re playing man so Forbes has looked poor (though that might be the only reason), we moved Quan all over so he didn’t settle in a role, we cross-trained Stromberg at C/RG so we can’t really try him out at LG. And then of course we drafted 2 DEs to a pretty deep unit. Bottom line, its going to be interesting to see how it all plays out. I can’t say I’d be too surprised if long term we wind up with 2 starters - Forbes and Stromberg, 3 heavy contributors - Martin, Rodriguez and one of our DEs, and 2 depth guys in Daniels and our other DE. It’s possible we get even more out of the group of course, and maybe more likely we get less out of them. On the whole though, not shoring up the OL this year, not taking advantage of a deep TE class, trading up for Henry (unless he shows a great deal of growth), and seemingly not utilizing these guys properly… questionable decision-making at minimum.

That’s my assumption, yes. Though obviously other factors play in (generally speaking, I don’t know enough about Philly/SF) - injuries causing rookies to get more PT, drafting for need, depth of units (which is a facet of your point), how good the actual prospect is (or has shown to be during the offseason), etc. I wasn’t initially too concerned about our guys getting time for various reasons, one of those being that I thought we had some decent players ahead of them (and that’s still the case with Rodriguez and our DEs at least), but signs aren’t looking very good for Forbes/Martin. Stromberg’s a little trickier as Cosmi has played well and Gates… well, at least he’s no Charles/Wylie. Unfortunate that Stromberg isn’t able to play LG and RT (I’m sure he could play LG if need be, or with practice time, but I doubt he’s a viable possibility there as of now). OL aside, I still believe this is a pretty talented roster. This last game certainly tested my belief though. I think the problem is coaching and LB play on the defensive side, and OL problems are hard to overcome on offense (coupled with the combo of young qb and a new scheme).

Fascinating that Philly and SF are two of the teams whose rookies have played fewer snaps. Theoretically, I don’t necessarily mind rookies not really playing if the draft is serving as a pipeline to replace or eventually upgrade talent. So the idea that Stromberg has a starter ahead of him, our DE unit is deep enough that Henry/Jones aren’t getting much time, that doesn’t bother me too much… in theory. Daniels was always gonna be a long shot to get time this year with 3 tackles ahead of him. In our case though, Forbes and Quan have both struggled on the field (the latter during preseason) and is sure seems we missed the boat on OL in rd 2 and Gonzalez in rd 1. I also think drafting a TE would have been the smart play given the class depth, even if they likely would have been challenging for the 5th spot and might not have seen the field yet even with Rogers going down and Thomas missing a game. Different story, but I also tend to think Rodriguez should have seen some snaps by now. While they seem to have a similar running style, he’s different from Robinson IMO in how fast he hits the line. I think it would be a good change up.