skinny21

I’m gonna do everyone a solid by adding this disclaimer - this video will literally take 20+ minutes off your life. (though you do learn which shorts are Howell’s favorite… so there’s that)

I’m with you in thinking that playing contain has been a primary focus. And I get the thinking, but I don’t like it. Not only are you putting a governor on the dline (probably our strongest position group), but you’re giving the qb more time in the pocket and so putting more pressure on the back 7. Sure, you’re dropping 7 into coverage (and trying to mix up/disguise that coverage), but I think that gets outweighed by not getting pressure faster. SIP posted a clip of a blitz from a different team in which the DE looped, leaving a big gap between the G and T, but then they scraped a LB across the line to fill that gap. The QB saw the gap, tried to run, and suddenly had the LB in their face. To me, that’s the kind of thing we’re missing - the synergy that allows the DEs more freedom (and that can apply to DTs too). Of course, that’s not to say that other factors can’t still be a part of the soup - Young and Allen not working so well together, coverage breakdowns, etc. I think we have the talent to get pressure with 4, so I differ with some that think Del Rio needs to be more aggressive via sending a lot more blitzes. IMO, he needs to get more aggressive in figuring out how he can unleash the front 4 (which may include blitzing, but not necessarily).

He talked about in on Hang Time. They’re both from Charlotte and during covid they connected and became friends. So same hometown, same sport/position, played for rival schools (Duke/UNC), and of course Jones had the experience of making it into the NFL. I doubt there’s any mentoring in terms of teaching qbing skills though.

I believe his main man is the qb coach/trainer he’s worked with since HS. There was a really interesting Keim interview with the guy… sounds like a really good parternship. And then I know he’s become close with Daniel Jones (for better or for worse). Obviously there’s EB, Pritchard and Zampese as well, though I don’t know what kind of relationship is there beyond professional.

I thought there were a few plays our guys wouldn’t have caught the pass even if there wasn’t (a small amount of) interference/holding, but maybe you’re right.

I have a hunch this was a big reason Jack pushed for corner help - both to give the coverage a boost when send an extra rusher, and maybe more importantly to make the scrambling type of qbs (maybe Hurts and Jones especially, being divisional rivals) hold the ball and allow your front 4 more time to collapse the pocket. To your point, I think the D was ok, especially since they were close to making a play a handful of times. 1 tipped ball, Forbes catches the ball that hits his hands (not blaming him though, Brown was all over him), Allen gets his hand on Hurts arm a millisecond earlier, and the game maybe looks different.

Well, this game puts a check mark on the side of “EB can help mitigate the weakness of the OL” argument, even as last week looked like a mark to the other side of the argument. Gonna be interesting to see the 3 parts as they grow together (if they do) - EB, Howell and the OL. I will say that I thought we got pretty lucky with the numerous penalties on the Eagles D that extended drives… this game could have been ugly otherwise.

Yeah, this is the difficulty I have judging the defense (and Del Rio) against a team like Philly. They can beat you in a bunch of different ways - Hurts’ legs, a really good run game, and dangerous pass catchers… all bolstered by a damn good oline. So a defense has to pick their poison. You can rush 4 unleashed, rush 4 trying to keep Hurts in the pocket, or blitz, and there are substantial risks with each of them. Personally, I think the most dangerous option is giving Hurts the chance to get out of the pocket - either demoralizing the D via his rushing, or scrambling and putting a ton of pressure on our secondary. Now, I wouldn’t say blitzing is a bad option, but if the back is reading blitz, you’ve got 6 v 5, the 6 includes a top tier OL, and the 5 rushers are going after a qb that’s adept at avoiding pressure… and of course you’re leaving your coverage light and exposing your run D if they run away from the blitz. Again, not saying it’s the wrong option, but it’s complicated.

Buffon, is that the new moran? 😁 Put his foot in Eric Bienemy’s mouth you mean…

I believe Wharton just missed a week or 2 of TC due to back surgery. Pretty sure he was coaching the OL all offseason otherwise, he just didn’t get the official title until the ownership change.

Still early, but yeah, if you avoid the general consensus pick, you’re gonna look extra dumb if that pick works out a lot better than the one you bypassed him for.

Yep. To be fair, I think they put a heavier focus on keeping Allen in the pocket. Of course, after converting multiple 3rd and longs early, you’d think we’d have seen more of a change (though we did blitz Kam that one time, though I think it was on 2nd down and Allen shrugged him off and waltzed into the EZ). Me too. Wasn’t that the end of the game too? Reminds me though, Charles has to get his head straight - too many times I’ve seen him not seeing blitzers, passing off guys when teammates aren’t ready/expecting it, or even trying to help Leno or Gates and making the situation worse (I think he’s the one that tripped Cosmi on that screen play too).

I love how the way you clipped that makes it sound like Howell was sacked again after Wylie’s comment

Good question, but I didn’t notice. I was mostly focused on the line though because I was getting a doom and gloom feeling about this season due to the line (combined with Howell’s inexperience). Of course, I think the broadcast angle makes it really difficult to parse receiver/qb/secondary play. When does the all-22 come out - feel like its on Wednesdays? Regarding the OL, just to be clear, I thought they did an adequate job in the sense that they did just enough…if the ball came out at the top of the drop (maybe with one hitch step). Anything past that was usually going to be trouble though. And the whole pocket collapsed pretty routinely (meaning no space to run/scramble). In those circumstances, pretty expected that a young qb was gonna have a real tough time. Howell had some miscues for sure (regardless of open/covered receivers), but its hard for me to really fault him.

I have to admit, I was a little surprised watching the game back… In the first half, I counted 17 pass plays: 8 with a five man protection. 1 with one player chipping (forgot to note if it was a back or TE). 1 with a back and TE chipping. 5 with the running back staying in to block (6 man protection). 1 with the running back staying in and a TE chipping. 1 with the back and a TE staying in to block (7 man protection). 1 pressure resulted from a blitz - Charles helped Gates on a DT, Leno bailed on his man to pick up the inside blitzer. The DE got into Howell’s face and Howell threw the pick intended for Gibson on the sideline. 1 pressure resulted from Howell moving in the pocket away from Cosmi’s leveraged guy (Cosmi’s block was fine). Completed pass downfield. 1 pressure resulted from Robinson blowing his block (the 4th and goal play). Cosmi got pushed back into Howell’s lap once as the ball was thrown… I’m not sure if this is categorized as a pressure, but it at least would have been if Howell hadn’t gotten the ball off fairly quickly. 2 of the sacks Howell had adequate time (barely though), but held the ball. 1 sack I have trouble assigning. OL didn’t handle the blitz very well, and Howell didn’t throw hot (as he theoretically should have), but I don’t know what options he had from the broadcast angle. Howell didn’t really have much time at all. There were a number of quick throws, and while pressure didn’t get through on those, the pocket was definitely collapsing for at least some of them. Ie. it didn’t seem like Howell would have had “adequate” time if he hadn’t gotten the ball out quickly, but hard to say for sure. Watched part of the 3rd quarter, but didn’t make notes. Protection seemed mostly fine until a little past midway - Howell tried to scramble once and was sacked, but there wasn’t really too much pressure when he tucked it. I don’t blame him though - he saw a lane, but it closed really quickly. And then the play after, Wylie completely whiffs for the 5th sack of the day. Howell had no chance. He followed that up with the pick to the linebacker in the middle (protection seemed fine). Overall, I was pleasantly surprised with the protection (in real time I thought they were bad), but at the same time, it felt like if Howell ever held the ball a beat longer than you’d like, the pocket was collapsing. So maybe I’d call it consistently adequate. Certainly not “good”, but I can now understand some of the data that takes a lot of the blame off the oline (at least to this point in the game). Wasn’t looking for it, but re-watching confirmed my thinking that the problem is the pairing of an “adequate” OL with a young qb. A good/experienced qb (one that can get the ball out quickly) would be fine behind this line, and Howell would be good behind a good OL. The pairing we have though is pretty shaky, and good defenses will likely cause them major problems. I have to wonder how much of the end result was due to Buffalo having a talented secondary and linebackers, possibly playing some coverage games with Howell too to make him hesitate. As for Bienemy, hard to judge, but I wonder if he didn’t call screens because of Buffalo’s line backing/back 7 talent. Still think he should have called at least 1 or 2 to test it out. I can excuse not running to some degree (given down and distance), but I also feel like he should absolutely have called at least a couple/few/several more. Last note, I can’t really judge the OL in the ground game - too much going on from the broadcast angle. Somewhere between ok and good, but impossible for me to discern how much was due to Robinson creating on his own.

And multiple turnovers/short fields…

It’s interesting, and a little difficult to judge when looking back at the drafts. Chase with the major injury, Mathis missing his first year and now IR’d again (and so a complete unknown), St Juste and Turner looking like good talents but both missing a lot of time, Charles dinged up constantly, and Robinson’s crazy start to his rookie year. There’s Cheeseman’s sudden issues (he was solid at worst his first 2 years, even if I think trading up for him wasn’t smart), and serious questions about how several guys were integrated/used - Cosmi at tackle rather than guard, Gibson used more as a bellcow instead of as an x-factor, Jamin and Martin both being given a variety of roles to start out instead of just planting them at one spot. Seems like this year could provide some clarity in judging many of these guys…

(Minus the Hail Mary, lol)

If you look back at the play-by-play, EB’s calling a pretty balanced 1st down. Some runs have picked up decent yardage, but most of those successes have come later in the game. Early on, lot of negative or minimal gains. He’s avoided running a second time after a minimal gain or running it after an incompletion. If they pick up 5+ yards, he’s fairly balanced between run/pass on 2nd. He’s leaned heavily on the run when facing 2nd and short. I could argue that running on 2nd and long every once in a while as a tendency breaker might be a good idea, but otherwise, I think he’s calling it almost exactly as we’d all want and have been calling for for years. And of course, in this scheme, the short pass game replaces the run game to an extent, and that includes the screen game at unconventional times. Use the width of the field (including screens) to get the dline running to the sidelines, then lean more into run game as the defense is more stretched and tired. All in all, in IMO he’s doing a great job picking his moments to run the ball.

It’s interesting that we’re #20 in pass rush win rate… I presume this says good things about our coverage (though I’m still salty about the two deep balls from Wilson, ugh).

Seems to be the case. Of course, I feel similarly about Washington (we’re not playing our best ball yet), though instead of rust, it’s growing within the system… and of course the D has to get going before the 2nd half. Pretty much where I’m at. Allen, Diggs, Cook, their ability to play balanced offense, a tough secondary, and the pressure/sacks we’re allowing… those concerns make me pretty apprehensive for this one.

Ok, so I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this is going to sounds bananas…. I read that second sentence and was like yep. What’s crazy is that I then stopped myself and thought… wait, are we sure those two things are true though? I mean, it sounds so ridiculous to compare the two qbs, and the Bills have a top notch roster as evidenced by their success. Now, I just woke up to be fair, but off the top of my head, the two most obvious, unquestionable separators between Allen and Howell are Allen’s success - record, winning big games, etc., and the height advantage. And then of course experience makes a big difference. But looking at the rest, the facets that make up a qb - deep ball passing, tight window throws, arm strength, running ability, mental toughness, character/work ethic and so on… is it that cut and dry? (It probably is, and I’m probably being a pathetic, still half asleep homer about it, lol). To be clear though, I’m still betting on Allen 10 out of 10 times. If I look at Howell’s growth to this point and what he’s shown, and then think about him with a year or two under his belt in this offense… I can see a world where that bet changes. Can’t really believe I’m even entertaining the thought. As to depth, I can’t really speak to the Bills depth, but I can say that I like most of our depth - receiver, DT, de, rb, qb, Lucas is a capable tackle, Reaves and DJ are pretty solid vets. Bates and Turner look capable and Hodges is intriguing. I like Stromberg’s potential, and while they haven’t performed, I still like the potential of Butler, Martin and Chris Paul. LB is the one spot with both questionable starters and backups.

Man, Bucs get a 100 from SIS, but 33 from ESPN? Gotta love analytics…

Interesting. Makes sense - the deep ball is Howell (and Terry’s) superpower. Force Howell and the offense to be methodical instead, something young qbs often struggle with. My uneducated thoughts on this…. Means we need some combo of Howell to getting through his shorter reads quickly, the oline holding up in pass pro, the short game succeeding (move the chains consistently and picking up YAC), and a successful run game. Bit of a mixed bag on those fronts. Howell’s holding the ball at times, but is also doing a pretty nice job of finding guys underneath. The oline is inconsistent in pass pro, and while Arizona either blitzed or showed blitz pretty often and Denver used 5 man fronts a good chunk of the time, both defenses got plenty of pressure with 4 man fronts. Better fronts/defenses could be a big problem. The screen game is working pretty well, though there’s been a wide variance of success. As far as I can tell, for the most part we aren’t getting much YAC out of non screen plays. 1st down runs have mostly been lacking success (IMO reducing the number of runs EB has called), but the ground game took off in the 2nd half against Denver, and they had success against both defenses with 2nd and medium/3rd and short runs.

I have the same question regarding Collins… In terms of Charles and our line as a whole, I think you hit the nail on the head wrt the problem with this oline (at least so far) - consistency. Each of them has a couple or few gaffes a game, and those mistakes add up (actually, I haven’t noticed errors from Cosmi, but I may have missed some). Of course, they also get magnified if/when the ball doesn’t come out quickly…