KDawg

Us not signing Payne is going to cost a lot of money next year.

So that third and goal play is a teachable moments. It’s not a called rollout but it wound up going into scramble drill rules when Heinicke broke the pocket. When Heinicke broke the pocket and started rolling the receivers all went with him. As they did, it’s clear the throwing lanes clog and running lanes disappear as the defense flows with Heinicke. That is the hardest thing for a guy like Heinicke to convert on unless the scheme puts a receiver wide open. That’s why when people say “roll him out” I die a little inside each time

Heinicke threw that one off his back foot but great read there and good job sitting calm in the pocket

Looks like Jamin Davis forced and recovered that. Allen helped force it. Man, Davis keeps kicking some of you who **** on him in the nether regions over and over and over again. Also, we’re lucky he fumbled because the Giants offense has us on our heels.

My prediction for today: Payne.

I see that worked out for him.

No kidding. We’re talking about future. Not now.

There is no alternative that is visible other than Howell. He is the alternative at the moment. But that doesn't mean that I have to think Heinicke is a good quarterback. But he is who we have. I also find myself on both sides of the Heinicke coin at times. There are times where I'm the one defending him. Times where I'm the one pointing out his poor play.

He had a broken hand. Then wtf am I talking to? Savior? No. But people are giving him entirely too much credit.

I haven't ignored that. I'm looking at literally everything and not chalking things up directly to Heinicke as the savior. I think Robinson and Gibson have more to do with the defense getting time to sit on the bench than Heinicke. Heinicke's limitations forced Turner into calling that kind of plan, a healthy Robinson let Gibson put less wear on the tires and used more dynamically, and injured OL returned to make our OL go from putrid to meh. That's my argument. Nothing beyond that. I feel like I'm playing ping pong.

Do you not agree that the defense played fairly poorly the first six games? One game doesn't change that when the defense has been semi dominant the last 6.

I'm confused. What's the point here? That our defense played okay and Wentz and the OL and our gameplan wet the bed? Agreed. I have no qualms about who and what Wentz was and did for us when he played. Correlation to me thinking Heinicke isn't the answer does not equate to me believing Wentz is the answer.

That IS the point. A good QB makes so many great plays the bad ones are forgiven. Heinicke is NOT a great player. So his mistakes stand out. That is the ENTIRE point. It's not piling on. It's what/who he is as a QB. That doesn't mean he doesn't have strengths. He does. I've laid them out many times here and in other threads. But he is a handcuff. It just so happens that the handcuff has moxie and our OC changed gameplans and it has tremendously benefited this team. And yes, Heinicke may be limited but he does deserve some credit for the run this team is on.

You're really not following. I'm not contradicting anything. That throw, in and of itself, is not the end of the world. That throw can result in a shift in momentum. Heinicke's body of work, in general, leads throws like that to be questioned, though, because he doesn't have a great arm and trusts his arm more than he should.

No one is talking about that throw if a good QB made it because they are a good QB. You’re right. There’s a reason Heinicke’s bad throws are talked about. They are back breakers.

Exactly.

I think these are absolutely reasons that the offense can be ten yards better with Heinicke. His ability to maneuver the pocket can absolutely be a reason for that as well. I also think Robinson getting to form, Robinson being back at all and using Gibson more dynamically, not throwing the ball, improvement in the OL can be reasons. I also think the difference in the defense can be credited for ending opposing drives faster as well, thus assisting in TOP. Point is, you can't point to a single factor. My point with saying, "you can also word it as the offense with Robinson averages ten yards more per game" wasn't to actually give him credit. But you can word it in many different ways. I think attributing it to just Heinicke is strange, but that's NOT to say that he doesn't play a role in it. And, it's tough to say a generalization other than "Hey, the offense is 10 yards better per game with Heinicke than with Wentz". So that isn't lost on me. But Heinicke gets a lot of credit for things he doesn't deserve it for. And, quite frankly, he gets more flack than he deserves credit for as well. That wasn't an out route. It was a comeback. A comeback requires timing. It was a bad ball because he waited too long to throw it and he forced it into a blanketed McLaurin. Intercepting that pass is a big deal. That doesn't mean it's the end of the world or not salvageable. But it flips Uncle Mo.

It wouldn't be. The rational response is that I would be curious what Wentz could do given this version of the offense. I also said that I think the best thing for the team is to forget Wentz exists entirely and move on from him. *shrug* Curiosity does not equate to anything other than that.

So why does it hold water that it's Heinicke despite Wentz' superior passing numbers? 320 yards more in the same amount of games. 3 more touchdowns. How do you think, in your words, the offense is averaging ten more yards per game "with Heinicke"? I just don't understand. This would make sense if I wanted Wentz to be our quarterback.

You realize he was returning from being shot, right?

Another way to word this: The wild part about that chart is that the offense is averaging about 10 more yards per game with Robinson in the lineup

I think it can. But then I think you also lose the miracle passes to McLaurin/Samuels,etc. And if you lose those you lose essentially the entire downfield game from Heinicke.

It is. But it isn't. Arm strength doesn't solve the INT problems, but it eliminates a few cases where a quarterback (Heinicke in this instance) overestimates his arm strength and underthrows the ball. Or he doesn't get the timing right on a comeback and the DB can jump it. Late throws can be saved with more zip. Late throws can't be saved if you don't have the arm strength. That doesn't nullify decision making as an important attribute. Nor does it nullify time to decision being an important factor. Processing time is an underrated and under talked about QB trait. To be clear, Heinicke does a lot well as a QB. Decision making is improving but not there yet. He processes things a bit slower at times and at times believes in his arm more than he should. Allen can process just as slow, for example, but his arm saves him from MORE turnover worthy passes than he already has. Allen and Heinicke DO share a common trait, though. They are gunslingers who want to get the ball to their best players.

This is good to read because I don't think arm strength is the sole antidote for throwing INTs, either.

I simply don't believe him. He is one of the biggest TH guys on this forum. My ears aren't plugged, I'm just not going to believe his intent was anything other than kicking the hornet's nest.